Are YOU Destined To Burn For Eternity?

A man with two sons told the older boy, 'Son, go out and work in the vineyard today.' The son answered, 'No, I won't go,' but later he changed his mind and went anyway. Then the father told the other son, 'You go,' and he said, 'Yes, sir, I will.' But he didn't go. Which of the two was obeying his father?" They replied, "The first, of course." Then Jesus explained his meaning: "I assure you, corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you do. For John the Baptist came and showed you the way to life, and you didn't believe him, while tax collectors and prostitutes did. And even when you saw this happening, you refused to turn from your sins and believe him...They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance...But go ye and learn what this meaneth, "I will have mercy, and not sacrifice": for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


According to Mark 4:10-12, the "secret" was not revealed to them so they could not repent and turn and be forgiven.

How can anyone not see the clear contradiction here?

By the way you do know that there are "none righteous", don't you? So who can this even be talking about, anyway? Clearly not these people, for they clearly were not righteous if they rejected the "truth"! Jesus was supposed to be the only righteous one, ever, in the history of the world. So does this merely mean that He did not come to call Himself? How does that make any sense? Or perhaps, should we now say that these people were righteous by keeping the Law? But that cannot be right either because then they would not need the sacrifice of Christ at all. And according to Paul no one can be made righteous by keeping the Law.

Please explaineth!
 
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Then, there never was a clear message as the alleged word of god is riddled with contradiction.


I know otherwise, Q. But even a theist has his faith that the bible is wrong. Proving it has been nortoriously hard to do. There is a science to the bible's methods and lineage and purpose. Most of the religions are completely ignorant of the last.

Why. Paganism has muddied that message. Even now atheist believing they understand the bible refer to contradictions that are easily explain in refrence to the original Greek and Hebrew...but you can't tell them differently. Thet have a faith that the bible is inaccurate. And they can not be told otherwise.

It's similar to how religionist behave toward one another. Thus taught by religionist Athesit are not immune to the fallibility of been human. Look at the reation one theist had to a complete rational and objective fact supported comment on the origins of the soul and spirit on the this thread...and emotional reaction.

It's not necessary to have an understanding of the Bible trough emotion. It is remarkably scientific truthful and acurate. It moves the hearts of men but you don't have to be moved to see the logic.
 
There is a science to the bible's methods and lineage and purpose. Most of the religions are completely ignorant of the last.

Not true. If you took the time to actually study other religions you would see this is completely false. Perhaps your comment is borne out of bias towards the bible being the "only path to God".




It is remarkably scientific truthful and acurate. .

Only by some standard of scientific knowledge as known in the Bronze Age.
 
I know otherwise, Q. But even a theist has his faith that the bible is wrong. Proving it has been nortoriously hard to do. There is a science to the bible's methods and lineage and purpose. Most of the religions are completely ignorant of the last.

It must be that you have some other definition and meaning to the concept of 'science' as the bible promotes supernatural beings and events that can't possibly be demonstrated or observed, hence have nothing to do with science. The other religions are the same in that matter.

As well, no evidence exists to substantiate the claims made in the bible.

How is it such that you are able to "prove" supernatural beings and events?

Why. Paganism has muddied that message. Even now atheist believing they understand the bible refer to contradictions that are easily explain in refrence to the original Greek and Hebrew...but you can't tell them differently. Thet have a faith that the bible is inaccurate. And they can not be told otherwise.

So, it boils down to their word against yours?

It's similar to how religionist behave toward one another. Thus taught by religionist Athesit are not immune to the fallibility of been human. Look at the reation one theist had to a complete rational and objective fact supported comment on the origins of the soul and spirit on the this thread...and emotional reaction.

Theists rarely if ever acknowledge facts if it contradicts their beliefs.

It's not necessary to have an understanding of the Bible trough emotion. It is remarkably scientific truthful and acurate. It moves the hearts of men but you don't have to be moved to see the logic.

Again, your use of the word 'science' is incorrect when you attempt to substantiate the supernatural.

Hearts pump blood. Logic requires thinking.
 
Not true. If you took the time to actually study other religions you would see this is completely false. Perhaps your comment is borne out of bias towards the bible being the "only path to God".

You misunderstood...I was refering to other religions as in other christian religions.




[Only by some standard of scientific knowledge as known in the Bronze Age.

Actually of the modern industrial age aswell.
 
It must be that you have some other definition and meaning to the concept of 'science' as the bible promotes supernatural beings and events that can't possibly be demonstrated or observed, hence have nothing to do with science. The other religions are the same in that matter.

I mention nothing of this. This is your point not mine.

As well, no evidence exists to substantiate the claims made in the bible.

The bible is constantly substaniated. You're in error.

How is it such that you are able to "prove" supernatural beings and events?
I haven't made the ascertion that I could. This your hang up not mine...I did not ever mention anything supernatural...



So, it boils down to their word against yours?
A crucible is a place where the irrelevancies are burned away to reveal facts. You're adding water. Facts are all that matter as to the point of the thread.

Factually speaking the bible does not use a burning hell it's a mistranslation of several scriptures to creation defunked idea that has pagan origins. The Facts stand as they are.

Theists rarely if ever acknowledge facts if it contradicts their beliefs.
I don't regard myself as "theist"

Let me address the "supernatural."
As for me I don't believe in the word supernatural thus you'll always find that I block this word frequently, no matter what definition is used because it conjurs to mind that which is magic and unscientific. From my studies of the Bible God and the angels are anything but unscientific and the bible represents a fully reputable document despite the Bible hecklers on the forums. The Bible has endured centuries of criticism and none of sticks very well and scientist are captivated by what scientific marvels the Bible represents and have attempted to theories and reproduce the "miracles" it tells of.

Proof of God and the angels begins from observing the world around us, but this only gives a theory of Intelligent Design. And while the evidence is substantial, it is also so what in some issues like the fossil record quite circumstantial. Biologicly life is complex and frequently beyond the comprehension of anything else beside astromonical annomolies. However unrefutable proof that God exist is within the Bible itself as the scripturual prophesies that have all come true. Detail study of these prophecies display a knowledge humans at the time did not have nor do have now. No one has the ability to see the future and yet the bible does so quite consistently. It's remarkable and beyond human explanationi. While som seek to find other explanation for how the bible does this the age of the Bible is confirmed and is the control in every experimental dating system since it's age is known. These prophecies date sometimes hundreds of years before fulfillment and have all been connected to the purpose stated in the Bible.

To is the relevant Scientific information given as instruction to the Isrealites and held for hundreds more years. The handling of the dead, virulent contagions, cleaniness, practices avoiding blood...all of which some may have had in part but none had in whole. No other book teaches such medical cleaniness as the bible, Ignored for thousands of years untill the Industrial age where doctors still handle infants after conducting post mortem proceeds with bare hands. The begining of the Industrial age records a high mortality rate for infants in hospitals. Yet the bible had clear direction.

Astromicaly the Bible holds true in Genesis as an account from a man's perspective of the creation of the life that exist on Earth, eveen while there are many missconception about the details created by hearsay and not actual analysis. The bible speaks about the shape of the Eath and it's position in space and it's land structure. All correct and beyond a humans ability to know.

This proof is academic but pivotable to the proof required to undestand why it can be said that there is a certainty that God does in deed exist and cares for mankind. That's why the Bible itself is staunch proclamation to the existence of God. Most of this does not surprise scientific academics...the take these for granted (to know) and don't truely appreciate the foreknowledge the Bible granted the Earth nor the persistent ignorance that ignored it untill science took hold to explain why these things must be done for our safeguard.
 
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The bible is constantly substaniated. You're in error.

Only in the active imaginations of those that wish it to be true.

Factually speaking the bible does not use a burning hell it's a mistranslation of several scriptures to creation defunked idea that has pagan origins. The Facts stand as they are.

So, which was my point, factually speaking the bible does have a burning hell -because it's mistranslated.
 
And exactly why is that anything to fear at all? I'm with KJC on this one. Oblivion is exactly equivalent to the state (that being no state at all) of anything that does not currently exist. Try to put yourself in the position of a human who has never existed! Can't do it, right? Absurd, right? There's no suffering, no peace, no torment, no rest - nothing. The lack of anything. What's to fear?

The creator has not given you the option of oblivion.

You have two options
1 heaven
2 hell

Most will have option 2.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

How to get to option 1, heaven, is defined in the King James version New Testament.

He created and owns everything and everyone.
He is also always right. Everyone that goes to hell will deserve to go there.

Isaiah 55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Oblivion is not an option. You will continue to exist in heaven happy or in hell miserable.
 
Everyone that goes to hell will deserve to go there.

.

Mahatma Ghandi does not deserve Hell (one small example)
Neither does Mother Theresa (since many fundie christians consider catholicism a "false" religion) Neither do all the other people throughout history who performed noble acts of compassion and selfless service or simply had the nerve to follow another faith system.

BTW ,you very own literal interpretation of your scriptures may be disputed by many other conservative Christians ,which of course could qualify you for the gates of hell!
 
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Mahatma Ghandi does not deserve Hell (one small example)
Neither does Mother Theresa (since many fundie christians consider catholicism a "false" religion) Neither do all the other people throughout history who performed noble acts of compassion and selfless service or simply had the nerve to follow another faith system.

BTW ,you very own literal interpretation of your scriptures may be disputed with by many other conservative Christians ,which of course could qualify you for the gates of hell!

Nonsense.

What he told you is true. You will experience either an eternity connected to God or an eternity separated from Him... either you change your mind by repenting and trusting Christ, or you don't.
 
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Nonsense.

What he told you is true. You will experience either an eternity connected to God or an eternity separated from Him... either you change your mind by repenting and trusting Christ, or you don't.

Indeed!
But this is of course all based on your subjective belief that the bible is the only path to God.
Fortunately my mind is not shrouded in the disruptive and divisive dogmatic "nonsense" of religion.
 
The bible is constantly substaniated. You're in error.

Yes, to many I am in error, as the words written in the bible are for you as real as the book from which they emerge. You're free of course to provide any substantiated evidence that could demonstrate that claim.

I don't regard myself as "theist"

Or an atheist? Is there another alternative?

Let me address the "supernatural."
As for me I don't believe in the word supernatural thus you'll always find that I block this word frequently, no matter what definition is used because it conjurs to mind that which is magic and unscientific.

That is true of many people who would agree with you. Their gods are as much a part of nature as they are. Many wouldn't agree with you however, as to which god is referred to that exists. That does of course present a problem of consistency between what you believe and they believe is scientific substantiation.

From my studies of the Bible God and the angels are anything but unscientific and the bible represents a fully reputable document despite the Bible hecklers on the forums.

That would be true if you only studied the bible.

The Bible has endured centuries of criticism and none of sticks very well and scientist are captivated by what scientific marvels the Bible represents and have attempted to theories and reproduce the "miracles" it tells of.

Sorry, I'm unable to comment on that due to not ever having heard of it occuring.

Proof of God and the angels begins from observing the world around us, but this only gives a theory of Intelligent Design.

I've only ever observed of nature anything but design. I simply can't understand how anyone can conclude a design in the largely chaotic universe we live. Gamma Ray Bursts can wipe out dozens of worlds within its grasp in a single flash. We could be hit by one just as easily.

Or, is it really a plan, designed? :shrug:

And while the evidence is substantial, it is also so what in some issues like the fossil record quite circumstantial. Biologicly life is complex and frequently beyond the comprehension of anything else beside astromonical annomolies. However unrefutable proof that God exist is within the Bible itself as the scripturual prophesies that have all come true. Detail study of these prophecies display a knowledge humans at the time did not have nor do have now. No one has the ability to see the future and yet the bible does so quite consistently. It's remarkable and beyond human explanationi. While som seek to find other explanation for how the bible does this the age of the Bible is confirmed and is the control in every experimental dating system since it's age is known. These prophecies date sometimes hundreds of years before fulfillment and have all been connected to the purpose stated in the Bible.

To is the relevant Scientific information given as instruction to the Isrealites and held for hundreds more years. The handling of the dead, virulent contagions, cleaniness, practices avoiding blood...all of which some may have had in part but none had in whole. No other book teaches such medical cleaniness as the bible, Ignored for thousands of years untill the Industrial age where doctors still handle infants after conducting post mortem proceeds with bare hands. The begining of the Industrial age records a high mortality rate for infants in hospitals. Yet the bible had clear direction.

Astromicaly the Bible holds true in Genesis as an account from a man's perspective of the creation of the life that exist on Earth, eveen while there are many missconception about the details created by hearsay and not actual analysis. The bible speaks about the shape of the Eath and it's position in space and it's land structure. All correct and beyond a humans ability to know.

This proof is academic but pivotable to the proof required to undestand why it can be said that there is a certainty that God does in deed exist and cares for mankind. That's why the Bible itself is staunch proclamation to the existence of God. Most of this does not surprise scientific academics...the take these for granted (to know) and don't truely appreciate the foreknowledge the Bible granted the Earth nor the persistent ignorance that ignored it untill science took hold to explain why these things must be done for our safeguard.

Yes, I see now. Yes.

If god cared for mankind, would he stop a GRB from hitting us, or would he simply not create one that would hit us?
 
Fortunately my mind is not shrouded in the disruptive and divisive dogmatic "nonsense" of religion.

"Indeed!"

Your mind is, however, shrouded in darkness according to the Objective Truth/Standard that is the Word of God:

This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

A fitting description for quite a few here in these august fora.

Repent, or remain shrouded in darkness for eternity.
 
"Indeed!"

Your mind is, however, shrouded in darkness according to the Objective Truth/Standard that is the Word of God:

Correction: "My mind is shrouded in darkness according to a literal interpretation of man created dogma".;)
 
To is the relevant Scientific information given as instruction to the Isrealites and held for hundreds more years. The handling of the dead, virulent contagions, cleaniness, practices avoiding blood...all of which some may have had in part but none had in whole. No other book teaches such medical cleaniness as the bible, Ignored for thousands of years untill the Industrial age where doctors still handle infants after conducting post mortem proceeds with bare hands. The begining of the Industrial age records a high mortality rate for infants in hospitals. Yet the bible had clear direction.

.

Actually much of the Ancient Hebrew medicine was derived from other cultures ..the Egyptians for one.Other Mesopotamian cultures and during the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities.
No doubt the Ancient Hebrews embellished many medical practices but they are not the original "authors" of many of them.

http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/6309/1/Ancient-Hebrew-Medicine.html

Many other sources can be referenced.
 
Correction: "My mind is shrouded in darkness according to a literal interpretation of man created dogma".;)

There was no interpretation. You read the literal Word of God. It/He informed you of the reasons why 'you are where you are'...ignore It/Him to your peril.
 
There was no interpretation. You read the literal Word of God. It/He informed you of the reasons why 'you are where you are'...ignore It/Him to your peril.

The thing is Photizo is that YOU believe it is the literal word of God. This is your subjective belief.
Although I believe the NT is highly spiritual in many places, it is simply one group of peoples interpretation of God. Not believed as literal by one billion Muslims, one billion Hindus,etc,etc.

This is just my belief of course but I think religions are simply(can be) an external path to achieving communion with God.
Where you end up in the afterlife depends upon your spiritual vibrations not giving verbal asent to Jesus or another religous figure to save your butt from hellfire.
There are just too many versions of God throughout the world and perhaps countless ones across this incredibly vast universe for only one group of people to have special privy with God.
 
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