are you an atheist that used to be a theist?

[Medicine*Woman]

so what is the difference between an atheist and somebody who doesent believe in god?

according to wikipedia it doesent mach what you and MW say, it doesent say anything about having to be a theist first. why does it seem like you try to make atheism sound like you have to study for it? or like its hard to acheive. its a very simple concept.

*************
M*W: Atheism comes to different people in different ways. There is no requirement of being a theist first. No one said there was. Whatever one's background, it does take a process to get from point A to point B. It takes study or communication with others to refresh one's mindset. I was a believer in god when I came to sciforums, even though I had long determined that Jesus wasn't god. I still believed he existed at that time, but I had a desire to learn all I could about christianity, having been one, and then I woke up to the fact that I had been wrong all along. Even when I was a christian, I had doubts. But instead of feeling guilty over those doubts, I continued to read and learn. It didn't take me long to realize christianity was the evil beast it proselytized against! The followers of the beast were entrapped in its loins. I had to get out. I've never regretted it.

There is no one way to embrace atheism. It is as varied as there are people and personalities. It does require thought and research, sometimes years, sometimes not. Sciforums is the best place to be to acquire this knowledge. I suspect christians come here to preach and convert, but ultimately they may be here because they're curious. That's a good sign. Otherwise, why would christians come here? I think they want to take a walk on the wild side. They're probably curious that we know something they don't. That's true. The likelihood that christians who come to sciforums is greater in that they will eventually become atheists than the atheists that come here would become christians. If christians were truly betrothed to their faith, they wouldn't dare come to sciforums. Maybe they think they will convert us all. That will never happen to not even one of us atheists.

 

[John99]

Oh well, then it doesnt even count.

The only experiences which lend credence to an afterlife are those which takes place during periods of brain death...meaning no vital electrical activity whatsoever.

If the brain is still functioning the visions are usually dismissed as imaginative illusions...like dreams.

Oh sure, whatever you say.

 

[John99]

That will never happen to not even one of us atheists.

YOU are not an Athist M*W.

Remember???

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

*************
M*W: Atheism comes to different people in different ways. There is no requirement of being a theist first. No one said there was. Whatever one's background, it does take a process to get from point A to point B. It takes study or communication with others to refresh one's mindset. I was a believer in god when I came to sciforums, even though I had long determined that Jesus wasn't god. I still believed he existed at that time, but I had a desire to learn all I could about christianity, having been one, and then I woke up to the fact that I had been wrong all along. Even when I was a christian, I had doubts. But instead of feeling guilty over those doubts, I continued to read and learn. It didn't take me long to realize christianity was the evil beast it proselytized against! The followers of the beast were entrapped in its loins. I had to get out. I've never regretted it.

There is no one way to embrace atheism. It is as varied as there are people and personalities. It does require thought and research, sometimes years, sometimes not. Sciforums is the best place to be to acquire this knowledge. I suspect christians come here to preach and convert, but ultimately they may be here because they're curious. That's a good sign. Otherwise, why would christians come here? I think they want to take a walk on the wild side. They're probably curious that we know something they don't. That's true. The likelihood that christians who come to sciforums is greater in that they will eventually become atheists than the atheists that come here would become christians. If christians were truly betrothed to their faith, they wouldn't dare come to sciforums. Maybe they think they will convert us all. That will never happen to not even one of us atheists.

according to wikipedia religious people can be atheists too. like daoists (me) or buddhists.


and i know you have learned alot and studied religion. but i would like to remind you that the holy books dont represent the concept of a god. i know religion has hurt you i understand. i dont mean any dissrespect towards you ever. but maybe you should open your mind up to the idea that a god might exist. you should never count something out without proof.

ofcourse the bible is not all true. and they are stories. wich are most likely mostly made up. but i also think that some parts are true events. like that thing they found recently proving a part of the old testament to be true. i read in the newspaper today that some guy from the old testament was recorded in history. and they found things to prove it.


but yeah anyway dont close your mind completely. because its best to stay in the center of the circle than stray to the left or the right.


peace.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

i know religion has hurt you i understand. but maybe you should open your mind up to the idea that a god might exist. you should never count something out without proof.

but yeah anyway dont close your mind completely. because its best to stay in the center of the circle than stray to the left or the right.

*************
M*W: Actually, religion never "hurt" me, but it did lie to me.

My mind was closed when I was a christian, but now it's open.

I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[geeser]

Just use you head. By the time a human reaches the age of reason (beginning around the age of 5) and if he were lucky enough to not have outside influences to corrupt him, that child will look up at the sky and wonder why.

He will look at different creratures around him and know full well the meaning of creation.

and how does the child discern his surroundings, is he self taught, if we left him alone from five, with nobody to teach him would he conjour up a diety?

UNTIL some cynical, jaded creep comes along and beats it out of him.

yes that would be the preacher or his parents ( this child needs to be baptised into the fold, least he burn for eternity in hell fire, and damnation.)

Sheeple?

How pathetic. All your beliefs were pounded into your head like a spike into a cinder block.

exactly and I managed to regain my mind, and revert back to the norm, however I pity the sheeple that still are brainwashed.

The universe is infinate....???? oh reallly???
We came from XXXX
We were frogs
We were monkeys
We all walked from Africa

roflmao.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMEkCHU2KtA

Give me a break, go suck your thumb and read the texts of your Gods- it is all assumption but your to shallow to see it and too stubborn to admit it.

what gods are those.

 

[ashura]

Does not matter, it is identified by what you would understand. A new born baby would understand it- they are pure, uncurrupted.

A new born baby wouldn't understand the difference between eating rat poison and candy. I wouldn't trust their judgment in that instance, what prompts you to trust in your example?

 

[ashura]

the word turned is wrong, because, it should be reverted, you can turn into a theist, but it is impossible to turn into an atheist, it is how you are born, you can only revert back to the norm.
it is a gradual process shedding the religion skin you been brainwashed with, It takes years, to revert back.

This is getting borderline ridiculous. You can honestly tell me that after looking up the word "turn" in a dictionary, you would still argue against the phrase "turning into an atheist"? If that's the case, I have no idea how to continue such a debate, it completely boggles my mind.

 

[geeser]

so what is the difference between an atheist and somebody who doesent believe in god?

as you know we are born technically atheist a non-believer, however after being indoctrinated as a child into religion.

too become the atheist I was refering to, takes a lot of years of studying, it's a disgarding of all the beliefs your taught, a shedding of the religious skin so to speak. a skin that once shed is to small a size ever to wear again.
it's an acceptance of the rational over the irrational. the logical over the illogical. reality over fantasy.

so although called atheist, it doesn't have only one meaning, it's akin to being a laymen as opposed to the pope, or the junior school child as opposed to the professor, the apprentice as opposed to the skilled man, a vast difference.

an atheist of the ilk, I'm refering to, has no believe in anything supernatural, mystical etc.. whereas a person who is a non-believer, may have beliefs in other strange unlikely things.

 

[ashura]

so although called atheist, it doesn't have only one meaning, it's akin to being a laymen as opposed to the pope, or the junior school child as opposed to the professor, the apprentice as opposed to the skilled man, a vast difference.

an atheist of the ilk, I'm refering to, has no believe in anything supernatural, mystical etc.. whereas a person who is a non-believer, may have beliefs in other strange unlikely things.

Those are your own personal trappings that you place on the word atheist. They're certainly not universal.

 

[geeser]

This is getting borderline ridiculous. You can honestly tell me that after looking up the word "turn" in a dictionary, you would still argue against the phrase "turning into an atheist"? If that's the case, I have no idea how to continue such a debate, it completely boggles my mind.

you can use whatever word/words you wish, and if your mind boggles I'd go see a doctor, "turn" is wrong because "revert" is a far more apt and precise word whereas "turn" has many other connotation's.

Those are your own personal trappings that you place on the word atheist. They're certainly not universal.

then why dont you set up a poll to find out, I would think that most atheists would consider themselves different to non-believers

 

[ashura]

you can use whatever word/words you wish, and if your mind boggles I'd go see a doctor, "turn" is wrong because "revert" is a far more apt and precise word whereas "turn" has many other connotation's.

Revert being a better word does not make turned wrong, which is my point.

 

[geeser]

Revert being a better word does not make turned wrong, which is my point.

ah but it does, you may have turned into an atheist, but I reverted back to the norm. but then again your not really an atheist are you.
dont answer, I know what your going to say. I've read through most of your posts, you mostly argue against the atheist, you can say you are, but I know better.

 

[ashura]

ah but it does, you may have turned into an atheist, but I reverted back to the norm. but then again your not really an atheist are you.
dont answer, I know what your going to say. but I've read through most of your posts, you mostly argue against the atheist, you can say you are, but I know better.

If you'd truly paid attention to my posts, I mostly argue against the atheists who feel like stringing attachments to the atheist name, such as yourself. And you will notice that every now and then I mock theists just the same.

In general, I argue against people who I think are wrong, and I don't prejudice on their beliefs when I do that.

You reverted back to the norm = you turned back to the norm.

EDIT: Oh yes, I probably should have mentioned (again), in response to your claim, that I indeed am an atheist.

 

[ashura]

I just saw the edit you posted here:

then why dont you set up a poll to find out, I would think that a most atheists would consider themselves different to non-believers

An atheist IS a non believer! Any differences between them are individual differences that are irrelevant to being an atheist. Feel free to set up a poll if you'd like, I'm too lazy to do such a thing to be honest.

 

[geeser]

An atheist IS a non believer!

which is like saying a traffic cop is a lawyer simply because he knows something about the law. or a gravedigger is a mortician simply because knows a little about death.

reference this thread, page 4, post 72.

 

[sandy]

Oh, come on now. It's the christians who spew their hate and venom. Atheists don't tolerate christians' stupidity. Why is it that you people join predominantly atheistic forums then try to convert everyone. You're wasting your time. You need to join a forum where you belong. There's plenty of them on the Internet.

You don't see us spewing anything but the truth. Yes we defend ourselves from personal attacks, but I don't see any of the Christians going out of their way to personal attack people. And "Christian stupidity" is an oxymoron. We're not trying to convert anyone either. We just tell the truth.

"Religion" will hurt and lie to you. God never will.

Oh, and "If christians were truly betrothed to their faith, they wouldn't dare come to sciforums". Not true. We go where God leads us.

 

[geeser]

You don't see us spewing anything but the truth.

excuse me!
truth and where is the evidence for this truth .

Yes we defend ourselves from personal attacks,

what personal attacks, attacking the stupidity of religion is not attacking you persoanlly.

but I don't see any of the Christians going out of their way to personal attack people.

well you dont see athiest personally attacking christians, just religion, in general. but I suppose thats to hard for you to comprehend.
and that was a personal attack on you, because it was directed right at you, it's suggesting your to thick to understand, see the difference.

And "Christian stupidity" is an oxymoron.

how so, it could only be a oxymoron if stupidity was contradictory with christianity but it isn't. believing in baseless fantasies, is wholly stupid.

We're not trying to convert anyone either. We just tell the truth.

but you dont it is intellectually dishonest(dare I use the word intellectual around the religious)
to push unsubstantiated rubbish and call it truth.

"Religion" will hurt and lie to you. God never will.

have to agree here as, unless your a would be suicide your own fantasies could never harm you.

 

[John99]

and how does the child discern his surroundings, is he self taught, if we left him alone from five, with nobody to teach him would he conjour up a diety? ..... however I pity the sheeple that still are brainwashed.roflmao.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMEkCHU2KtAwhat gods are those.

Your just not getting it are you? Religion has humanities fingerprints all over it, no kidding...what a revelation.

YOU are just as brainwashed:

I posted this:

The universe is infinate....???? oh reallly???
We came from XXXX
We were frogs
We were monkeys
We all walked from Africa

and your response is - roflmao, and some lame - pathetic - uncreative Utube video. You don't have any better response. You have been and still are, being lied to. Your crutch is the books you check out of the library like a child reading the latest science fiction novel....why cant you see this?

Evolution is a possibility, but there is absolutely no proof...NONE, no real hard evidence. There are enormous flaws in this theory too, how do you rationalize your unquestioning faith? Like i said the flaws are so obvious that now you are going on faith, you want it all to be true so badly that it is sad. When people mock religion it shows profound ignorance and denial, denial that they themselves are being taken advantage of...lied to, treated like brain dead sheep.

humans all originated in Africa? Well it is just as good as anyplace else. Is that good enough for you?

The universe is expanding, it is infinite? - OK.

And i wonder how it can expand and at the same time be infinite. hmmm, why dont you ask some fool for the answer.

All this is fine, we discuss things you cannot know: Darwin did not know them, Dawkins does not know them and now you know as little as they do...but they are YOUR messiahs...

All this would be fine, but to come on here ridiculing religion like an alcoholic preacher is laughable.

 

[geeser]

and your response is - roflmao, and some lame - pathetic - uncreative Utube video.

and what else would you have expected from such an inanely stupid post.
oh I know a god did it response.

You don't have any better response. You have been and still are, being lied to. Your crutch is the books you check out of the library like a child reading the latest science fiction novel....why cant you see this?

knowledge of the universe, is one that does not require a deity, as belief in a deity is wholly irrational. given the lack of evidence for such a possiblity.

Evolution is a possibility, but there is absolutely no proof...NONE, no real hard evidence. There are enormous flaws in this theory too, how do you rationalize your unquestioning faith?

foolish moral, it's not a question of absolute proof, it is a question of it being the most likely, given the evidence we have at the moment, fanastising a god did it scenerio is wholly infantile.

Like i said the flaws are so obvious

nobody has said there isn't gaps, but given the evidence, it is foolish to go down the road of sky daddies( deities)

that now you are going on faith,

no not at all just taking the more reasonable stance.

you want it all to be true so badly that it is sad.

no not at all, see if you can understand this, given the evidence we have at present regardless of any hole, it is the most reasonable course to follow, the alternative being far to absurd.

When people mock religion it shows profound ignorance and denial,

firstly what are they denying, you need to have a belief in something to deny it, and fantasies aren't things you can believe in, without being ridculed, hence why religions get mocked.

denial that they themselves are being taken advantage of...lied to, treated like brain dead sheep.

explain how anybody, who allows another to take control, to think for them, to herd them together, should not be regarded as sheeple, I broke away from that servitude, and became my own person, everything I do, I've made the decision to do, I dont need a belief in a deity to do good, I do it because I wish to.

humans all originated in Africa? Well it is just as good as anyplace else. Is that good enough for you?

at the moment that is the general consensus, but it may change yet.

The universe is expanding, it is infinite? - OK.

at the moment again it's the general concensus, but it may well change.

And i wonder how it can expand and at the same time be infinite. hmmm, why dont you ask some fool for the answer.

your guess is as good as mine, they are not finite theories, there just what we think is happening at this moment.

All this is fine, we discuss things you cannot know: Darwin did not know them, Dawkins does not know them and now you know as little as they do...but they are YOUR messiahs...

I would not say that,no one is my better, we are all equal, what I would say is they know more than I, but they arn't absolutely sure either. such is the nature of science, always the possiblities of change.

All this would be fine, but to come on here ridiculing religion like an alcoholic preacher is laughable.

stating the facts as they are at present can be seen by the religious as mocking and cant you blame us, when the religious present this cockamamie story of how things happened and expect us to respond without ridiculing them.