are some people too old to see the truth?

[scifes]

Yes. The older they are the blinder their mind is. It is not because they are stupid, it is simply because they are very close minded and focused on one way and one choice only. They had a different way of life, they have not been exposed to what the new generation has like my self. It is too late for them to understand our point of view, or what the world really and truly became up to date.

i agree with the first part..but not the second..it is hard to accept the world is round after 40 years of believing it flat..but it is possible..
but if you're 17 years and you heard of both possibilities..then you don't have much of a past belief to cloud judging a new one..
BUT IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE..bit hard yes..

scifes,

Can you do something that Allah can not do?

Can you learn something new? Yes
Can Allah? No

There you go, I bet you never thought there was something YOU could do that the ALL POWERFUL and ALL KNOWING Allah could not do.

Want to know another thing you can do that Allah can not do?
You can THINK. Allah can't, Allah only knows - kind of like a harddrive of stored information. Allah is therefor irrational, as being rational is a process. Hard drives, like Allah, are irrational.

So you worship a irrational illogical hard-drive.

Great for you.

:bravo:
congratulations michael..you're the second person in sciforums who comes up with something i haven't thought of yet..
unfortunately..it's much less of a challenge than the first one..
do you need to use the bathroom micheal??
imagine a human with alterd genetics who is 100% food efficient..meaning he doesn't need to use the bathroom..would you go to him and say: "na na nanana, i can use the bathroom"?
thinking is in the same line..i mean both of these things are tools to add up..to gain..they are abilities meaning incompletion..nothing to brag about..yes they are very great as they are the tools we advance with..but comparing us to god with them is just out of place..once again..i'm not sure if my idea reached you or not..it's something like saying: look, we can get sick and die and god can't..

and in case i couldn't "solve" what you said.. god in my definition something so high up like infinity..something not compatible with human standards..to a certain degree it is..but that's all..so if by human standards not thinking and learning is stupid..extending that to god is invalid..

We can find all sorts of things to talk about in terms of what you think you "know" but the truth is you were brainwashed in the same way people learn a language. Once you know English, it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to read these words and not understand and create meaning from them. The neurons in your brain are now wired to do this. They are also wired to believe in Allah and no matter what anyone says, you will always believe in Allah - just as you will always understand English. If you were raised to be a Scientologist and believe in the Intergallactic OverLord Xenu right now you'd be doing that.

i wouldn't believe in xenu because i know the "language" of islam..i understand what you're saying..that i was islamically "brainwashed"..but i've brainwashed myself with atheism and it didn't work..DO YOU KNOW that if my parents knew i was talking to atheists they would slit my throat..they're afraid(as with all of the community) that YOU will brain wash me..bit disappointing but you guys couldn't(?)...and i understand their decision..sometimes you are right and don't know how to show it..it's like a mathematican telling his son not to go to guys who can "prove" math wrong..because if he goes..he might be good enough to show them they're wrong..but if he couldn't..then what??

THAT IS WHY I SAID IT COULD BE THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE..i know the language of islam and taught myself the language of atheism(and revised it with you guys)..but you on the other hand..know only one language, the one you say is right..like you can say otherwise..you didn't brainwash yourselves with the other languages SO YOUR DECISION IS FLAWED..

so yes..it is impossible not to understand islam once i've been brainwashed with it..so what shall i do?.. i can brainwash my brain otherwise and make a better decision..(and it showed me the initial brainwash was ok)

Stop and think about this for a minute. Serious consider it (if that is possible - which it isn't possible and that's OK, you are brainwashed after all). IF there is no God. No God. none. Zilch. Zero. Nothing. What then, does this say about the Qur'an as a book and about Mohammad as a person? Can you accept the Qur'an as an Arab book of myths based on nearby Xians and Jews myths? Can you accept Mohammad as a liar who pretended there was an Allah to get people to do this or that?

it's possible cuz i've done it..and i "made" this theory:

(the more something looks true..the smarter who could be faking it is)..

that being mohammad PBUH..i applied that to his "real" miracles..not the glass ants ones..and if we consider that mohammed has faked all miracles...then mohammad PBUH is the smarter than our brains can fathom...and truth be told..for a man to be THAT smart..is extremely improbable (you don't understand this cuz you don't <know> the miracles)..improbable as 0.00000000000000000000000001%.. so i decided to believe him..
lol..and what if the 0.000000000000000000000001% is true..and he was a prodigy or some alien?
then for ME..it doesn't matter..i'll risk living my life in a sweet illusion on that possibility..
you wouldn't..you go by logic..so by logic..if a person was that smart..why would he humiliate himself and worship god??why would he "fake" worshiping him...in the end..a person as (possibly) smart as him..what choice DO i have other than follow him?

WHAT I SAID MAKES NO SENSE..IT ALL HOGWASH..IT IS ALL STUPID..because you lack the knowledge of his real miracles..and curse the glass ants..

So wouldn't that indicate that some people are too young to see the truth?

do you smoke oli??
i saw the truth of smoking's stupidity and illogicalness as a kid...growing up made me lose that truth..somoking started making sense..

but it was wrong..what good is the logic which makes us rationalize bad things??

Yep, we've seen the answers you've arrived at by yourself: ants are made of glass.

DON'T LIE ABOUT ME..I SAID BEFORE I WROTE THAT THAT IT'S AT THE TOP OF MY MIND..AND I SAID THAT IT WAS SENT THROUGH EMAIL..I NEVER SAID I REACHED THAT ON MY OWN..DO NOT LIE

(And actually, it's easier to reply by segments since you ramble incoherently so much)

seeeeeeeeee??
you don't care to put some time into trying to decipher my incoherent babling..you don't even say:"i can't understand this guy so why bother.."..oh no you don't..you dedicate a part of your time just to bash something you don't understand..make fun of a person you don't understand..and then..they say they actually wanna know the truth..

Honesty is something that is unknown in Islam.

OOOOOOOOOOH YEAH???
I'LL SHOW YOU OLI...OH YES I WILL..I'LL KNOCK YOU DEAD WITH SENSE..I'LL MAKE YOU PINCH YOURSELF TO TRY AND BELIEVE WHAT YOU'RE SEEING..
that, my friend..i promise you..

I admit scifes, you got me interested in Islam. So wanted I looked it up on both religious and non religious sites. I came in with an open mind. And the main thing I observed is, how is Islam any different than Christianity as far as credibility goes? They both make the same kind of extraordinary claims and have the same "I just made this up" type of rules. No different than all the rigmarole one goes through at Catholic church's mass or during the Jewish Passover or the reason Mormons aren't supposed to watch R rated movies. I honestly want to know. What makes Islam more true than Christianity or Judaism?

start with "they are all fake"..put that in mind..carry the burden of exposing that to the world..study their so called "miracles"..find flaws in them..in trying to do so..you will find the truth..

For most people growing older usually means absorbing more information and knowledge and more time to think about various issues. At least those people who are interested in learning tend to do that.

i used to think of it as logicalizing illogical things by repetition..
or getting used to things you shouldn't get used to..

Think about this a little more. Isn’t this a little suspicious. It is like saying I can see a hole in front of me but I believe I can walk over it and won’t fall in (the fantasy), the non-believer simply disagrees. The question you should ask yourself is where did you get the fantasy from? It is from your religious indoctrination. It is not from observed events or truthful statements but from others who know no more than you and believe the same fantasies.

i liked this example..it got me thinking..
a believer will fall in the hole like the non-believer..
heh..BUT..
if there was a transparant plate over the hole..THEN WHAT??
you didn't think of that..

The issue is not about who is right or wrong but should be about how we can show what is truth. Those who make religious claims cannot show any truths.

i'll do that..all what i ask of you is to open your mind and play along with me..

Science is mostly about reasoned thought and logic. Throughout my 9 years here I have seen many with strong religious beliefs finally understand the faulty thought processes that accompany religious concepts, and that due entirely to carefully argued discussions here in this forum. To help others learn to think more clearly is ample justification for this forum.

please show me threads of those guys..
and you worded it nicely..you're here to help others learn to think more clearly..
:splat:
.
.
SEE!!!
YOU'RE NOT HERE TO LET OTHERS HELP YOU THINK MORE CLEARLY..YOU'RE HERE TO TELL THEM HOW TO THINK..YOU'VE CLOSED YOUR LEARNING CHANNELS AND DOUBLED OPEN YOUR TEACHING ONES...I SHOULD JUST LEAVE THEN..I DON'T MIND LEARNING..BUT NOT FROM A BUNCH LIKE THIS..

you guys are just impossible..

Not quite. Islam makes claims that it has a scientific explanation but under closer examination (many times here) it clearly does not.

show me..
and scince you won't..
i WILL show you the opposite..

Because we can very clearly see that you have absorbed Islamic indoctrination and that even though you feel convinced you are right you are still unable to demonstrate that any of your beliefs reflect any degree of truth.

i've done that to a degree.. the results weren't of a matching degree..makes me wonder if doing it completely has any good..
but i'll do it nonetheless ..

Why assume death is inevitable? Average lifespan for humans over most of their history has been in the twenties and thirties, modern science has now brought that to around 80 and anti-aging research offers great hopes that that number will double and go far beyond. We are swiftly approaching a time when death is not an inevitable outcome. But fear of death is the basic weapon of every religion; it is what relates them all. Every religion offers people the false hope that they can cheat death. It is based on that very strong human emotion of wanting to survive. It is also based entirely on nonsense fantasy.

that's your dilemma..
biology says people die..
common sense too..
before people used to live hundreds and even thousands of years..
their life span is only getting shorter..
if they do get immortal..lol..killing will easily replace dying..lo think about it..

Even if you achieve heaven, then what? If you rejoin your family in the future once you are all dead what happens next? How will you develop and what will you do in this afterlife? Perhaps you will need a human development program.

god has that..
you should think more of a human development program IF..see IF..hell was true..lol don't worry about heavan..

Too many issues listed to give a general statement, but…

i agree..

Islam is based entirely on human fantasy – can you show otherwise?

i will..

whether you close your eyes or not is up to you..

 

[Enmos]

Are some people too young to see the truth?

Are some people too [insert condition] to see the truth?

 

[Oli]

i agree with the first part..but not the second..it is hard to accept the world is round after 40 years of believing it flat..but it is possible..

On the other hand having 40 extra years of life can mean that you've heard it all before and learned to separate the wheat from the chaff.

congratulations michael..you're the second person in sciforums who comes up with something i haven't thought of yet..
unfortunately..it's much less of a challenge than the first one..

And your answer to this is as glib and fatuous as your answer to the other: i.e. not an answer, merely a simplistic reply that you happen to be satisfied with.

THAT IS WHY I SAID IT COULD BE THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE..i know the language of islam and taught myself the language of atheism(and revised it with you guys)..but you on the other hand..know only one language, the one you say is right..like you can say otherwise..you didn't brainwash yourselves with the other languages SO YOUR DECISION IS FLAWED..

An equally specious and short sighted answer - it's (again) merely one that suits your limited perceptions.

that being mohammad PBUH..i applied that to his "real" miracles..not the glass ants ones..and if we consider that mohammed has faked all miracles...then mohammad PBUH is the smarter than our brains can fathom...and truth be told..for a man to be THAT smart..is extremely improbable (you don't understand this cuz you don't <know> the miracles)..improbable as 0.00000000000000000000000001%.. so i decided to believe him..
lol..and what if the 0.000000000000000000000001% is true..and he was a prodigy or some alien?

In other words you have no actual idea what you're talking about and decided to apply random numbers to bolster your pre-made decisions.

WHAT I SAID MAKES NO SENSE..IT ALL HOGWASH..IT IS ALL STUPID..because you lack the knowledge of his real miracles..and curse the glass ants..

Nope, what you said was hogwash. Full stop.

do you smoke oli??
i saw the truth of smoking's stupidity and illogicalness as a kid...growing up made me lose that truth..somoking started making sense..

Smoking doesn't make sense.

but it was wrong..what good is the logic which makes us rationalize bad things??

If you're rationalising you aren't applying logic.

DON'T LIE ABOUT ME..I SAID BEFORE I WROTE THAT THAT IT'S AT THE TOP OF MY MIND..AND I SAID THAT IT WAS SENT THROUGH EMAIL..I NEVER SAID I REACHED THAT ON MY OWN..DO NOT LIE

Really?
Let's check on who's lying:
Your first statement:

it turned out ants contain alot of glass.

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2257715&postcount=134
Your second:

i can't believe it..i researched that, not to see if the verse was right(because ants DO crunch)..but to prove that i know what i'm talking about

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2258620&postcount=146
No mention of getting it through an e-mail: you stated that you'd researched it.
Lies?
Not on my part.

seeeeeeeeee??
you don't care to put some time into trying to decipher my incoherent babling

You don't care enough to not babble?

..you don't even say:"i can't understand this guy so why bother.."..oh no you don't..you dedicate a part of your time just to bash something you don't understand..make fun of a person you don't understand..and then..they say they actually wanna know the truth..

Faulty assumption: I care enough to point out your errors in the hopes you'll learn something.

OOOOOOOOOOH YEAH???
I'LL SHOW YOU OLI...OH YES I WILL..I'LL KNOCK YOU DEAD WITH SENSE..I'LL MAKE YOU PINCH YOURSELF TO TRY AND BELIEVE WHAT YOU'RE SEEING..
that, my friend..i promise you..

Good luck with the attempt - I'd be most pleased.

Most of the rest wasn't addressed to me so I'll leave it the individual recipients to answer, except for this one:

before people used to live hundreds and even thousands of years..

Nonsense.

 

[Bishadi]

Bishadi, your wasting your time. You know how we are all seeds. Some land in fertile soil, some land on rocks, some land in branches, all over the place. Well Oli, he is a seed that grew up on a stone. No matter how much sense you knock into him, it will just bounce off. Hes mind ain't going no where. He has no roots. He does not hold any beneficial information to this society and also he does not learn anything beneficial for himself. Lost cause.

Sad but true!


Peace to you and thanks for that 'notice of default' (ND).... on the loli

 

[Bishadi]

Possibly correct - we were too busy building that world.


How very teenage angst of you.
How equally pedestrian.


There's no sense likely to be coming from you or Bisahdi.


That's a particularly stupid (and fallacious) assumption.


Followed by another.

shut up oli..............

this is just one thread

you add nothing to most EVERY thread

you build nothing

you contribute nothing

you care for no one

born on a rock; perish within your intent to equilibriate

(anyone can see, you a 'loss to the common'......... and do it by choice)


this thread's for you, oli

 

[Bishadi]

Hello Scifes,

if you want to discuss Islam, well heck......... therein are always good subjects.

Are you awaiting the 'second creation' too?

it is exciting knowing most of the Quran is talking about the 'next chapter' to mankind, to prepare. Something about, it will seem like a 'reversal of nature.'

The caliphs put much wisdom and foresight (prophecies) into Quran.

I can be found to say, that i see the Quran as the interpretation of torah, new testament and zoroaster into one.

Miracles and magic and fun stuff like miraculous healing and raising people from the dead as being the same MO of most all icons of theology.

Heck, do you know Hare Krishna? He is said to have had 16000 gopis (women/wives)..... ............no wonder they call 'em a god.

To me, from Thoth, Confucius, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, Darwin, Einstein and Ghandi, etc etc etc; they all added to the 'evolution of knowledge'...

and i say thanks quite often (most moments of time)

the key to observe is that 'progression' of knowledge (in the learning thread)

which to really see the whole scope, if we all had the right answers, these discussions would not be occuring.

so the time of the 'unfinished work' is the world we all have been born into; knowledgebly speaking. (from an illiterate)

but all them theologies tell us; "be prepared for the truth to come" as that is the FAITH to maintain!

Are we all still debating? YES!

then; The knowledge of truth is not complete and equally available on the earth for all mankind to Understand! (That is a true statement!)

So rule A1, be honest with yourself. (every religion 'requires' that honesty)

Not a one says, 'it is OK to fib to keep your style of belief'.


We can begin a dialogue but the thread heading (OP) was not fair. If you are seeking to illustrate a specific theology, then post that and square up with any with compassionate love for truth!

i will assure you if quran is your preferred book, then find both of us can assist others in reading what is truly there versus observing the beliefs as being law to God.

Since this thread is on 'learning' then let's start with position ONE; all words are the creation of mankind.


This will remove all the usage of line items suggesting God wrote something, told someone something or made magical angels tell him to tell them what God meant.

That is not reality as each must follow rule A1 (no false witnessing/fibbing/maintaining jinn).....'we don't fib to each other'


deal?

are we on the same page?

 

[CutsieMarie89]

start with "they are all fake"..put that in mind..carry the burden of exposing that to the world..study their so called "miracles"..find flaws in them..in trying to do so..you will find the truth..

That doesn't really answer my question. I want to know the difference. They all seem exactly the same. I don't know much about Islam, so I want to know what makes it different.

 

[(Q)]

Are you awaiting the 'second creation' too?

Are you talking about Armageddon? Wipe everyone out and start over?

it is exciting knowing most of the Quran is talking about the 'next chapter' to mankind, to prepare. Something about, it will seem like a 'reversal of nature.'

Will we all get younger and go flying up our mom's wombs?

The caliphs put much wisdom and foresight (prophecies) into Quran.

Wouldn't that make the Quran irrelevant if the Caliphs did that?

I can be found to say, that i see the Quran as the interpretation of torah, new testament and zoroaster into one.

It's a rip-off of the those scriptures.

Miracles and magic and fun stuff like miraculous healing and raising people from the dead as being the same MO of most all icons of theology.

Myths and superstitions, yes.

To me, from Thoth, Confucius, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, Darwin, Einstein and Ghandi, etc etc etc; they all added to the 'evolution of knowledge'...

Moses and Jesus were myths. Muhammad brought only slavery and oppression.

So rule A1, be honest with yourself. (every religion 'requires' that honesty)

One cannot be honest with themselves and believe in magic, too.

Not a one says, 'it is OK to fib to keep your style of belief'.

Taqiyya.

 

[Cris]

Scifes,

i used to think of it as logicalizing illogical things by repetition..
or getting used to things you shouldn't get used to..

For some people this may be true, for many who like to learn and grow and keep an open mind then it is not true. It is simply not valid to label everyone who grows older as stagnant in what they choose to believe or how they re-evaluate their past experiences and knowledge.

i liked this example..it got me thinking..
a believer will fall in the hole like the non-believer..
heh..BUT..
if there was a transparant plate over the hole..THEN WHAT??
you didn't think of that..

The condition was that of a hole, not a hole with a transparent cover. What you are trying to do here is change the conditions of a proposition to suit your own argument, this is a common invalid tactic used by those who are losing an argument and are desperate to find an escape.

“ The issue is not about who is right or wrong but should be about how we can show what is truth. Those who make religious claims cannot show any truths. ”

i'll do that..all what i ask of you is to open your mind and play along with me..

Note here that I am not asserting that you are wrong or that your god does not exist but that you justify your claims. My mind is quite open to any possibility but I’m not about to believe something without a credible basis. On the other hand look to your own approach: You have adopted the position that Islam is the only true path and you have indeed CLOSED your mind to any alternative. Take care when you attempt to accuse others of not having an open mind.

please show me threads of those guys..

I wish it were that easy. What is it that convinces someone to change their outlook? It is a large culmination of ideas and discussions and a great deal of private thought. I have not kept a record.

and you worded it nicely..you're here to help others learn to think more clearly..

No not really. I’m here to enjoy myself. I do take pleasure when I see well reasoned arguments, whether theist or otherwise.

SEE!!!
YOU'RE NOT HERE TO LET OTHERS HELP YOU THINK MORE CLEARLY..YOU'RE HERE TO TELL THEM HOW TO THINK..

Not quite correct. There is no TELLING others how or what to think. It is about thinking clearly. Religious indoctrination includes both HOW and WHAT to think. I operate under neither constraint.

YOU'VE CLOSED YOUR LEARNING CHANNELS AND DOUBLED OPEN YOUR TEACHING ONES...I SHOULD JUST LEAVE THEN..I DON'T MIND LEARNING..BUT NOT FROM A BUNCH LIKE THIS..

Bunch? I only speak for myself not for others. But really there is only a single simple thing you need to learn here. If you make an assertion regarding a religious position then be prepared to support it. You have not done that yet.

show me..
and scince you won't..
i WILL show you the opposite..

And your promise to show the science behind Islam is…………..

If you attempt to do this, and I assume it will be from what your religion has taught you then you will discover the objections and problems from the responses you receive. If you wish you could scan the many thousands of posts here for similar attempts, or you could just try again.

that's your dilemma..

It’s yours too. Unless science can provide a solution you will at some point within the next few decades cease to exist. Believing a religious fantasy does not change that fact. There is zero incidence of anyone who has died ever returning.

biology says people die..

Yet a bacteria can live forever if it finds sustenance, there is an arctic frog that has no aging process, and some trees can live for thousands of years. The genes of some people cause them to die in their 40s while other live to 130. As science unravels these issues we see it is inevitable that the lifespan of humans will continue to increase until aging does not occur.

common sense too..

This goes to your topic title. You believe this because you have bought into what you have been conditioned. Expand your scope and learn what science is doing in this area.

The issue becomes one of: If people never die then what value is religion? The fantasy promise of heaven then has no relevance. Like I said religion is all about playing on the human fear of death.

before people used to live hundreds and even thousands of years..

Not outside of religious fantasy. Quote a reliable source where humans have lived for thousands of years.

their life span is only getting shorter..

Not according to every statistic on human lifespan analysis.

if they do get immortal..lol..killing will easily replace dying..lo think about it..

Murder, accidents, and suicide will become the primary forms of death. However, the value of life will grow massively when people begin to live for thousands of years. But that whole area is not relevant to this topic.

god has that..
you should think more of a human development program IF..see IF..hell was true..lol don't worry about heavan..

God has what? Heaven? Don’t worry about me, look to yourself. What are you going to do when you are in heaven and will live for eternity? Your religion will give you little help here since it isn’t much concerned with that. Its sole objective is to make you think a particular way based on your desire to survive this life and cheat death, to achieve a utopia. This is why religions continue to thrive, yet they cannot show that any such things are real or are even possible. You are simply caught in this sham because you want so much for it to be true, you simply don’t want to die so you are prepared to believe a promise that so many millions also believe. This is why you are called a sheep.

But if you do cheat death what form will you take? Will you be resurrected or will you simply live in a spirit form, and if so how is that possible. What does your religion tell you about that?

whether you close your eyes or not is up to you..

My eyes are very open. How many alternatives to Islam have you truly considered? Have you even looked?

 

[Oli]

shut up oli..............
this is just one thread
you add nothing to most EVERY thread

So THAT'S the explanation of how Green's Function "busts entropy".
I thought so.

 

[-ND-]

That doesn't really answer my question. I want to know the difference. They all seem exactly the same. I don't know much about Islam, so I want to know what makes it different.

Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God. (Most horrible thing to say/believe) Muslims believe Jesus was one of the prophets, that God has sent.

 

[-ND-]

shut up oli..............

this is just one thread

you add nothing to most EVERY thread

you build nothing

you contribute nothing

you care for no one

born on a rock; perish within your intent to equilibriate

(anyone can see, you a 'loss to the common'......... and do it by choice)


this thread's for you, oli

Lol. I told Oli, that he is the problem, not the answer to the problem.

 

[Oli]

Lol. I told Oli, that he is the problem, not the answer to the problem.

Yup, but what you fail to see (as does Bishadi), is the gulf between what you say and the actual truth.

 

[-ND-]

Possibly correct - we were too busy building that world.


How very teenage angst of you.
How equally pedestrian.


There's no sense likely to be coming from you or Bisahdi.


That's a particularly stupid (and fallacious) assumption.


Followed by another.

Building the world??? Excuse me. Building the world full of greed and hate, if anything.

I'm 21 thank you very much. I did not say that to exert my young age over yours, it was actually for everyone that is around my age.

Most people can not understand common sense, it is too much to bare. They need to add some fabrications in order to appeal to them. The hard, plain truth hurts everyone, like a steak through a vampire's heart.

Assumptions can be true or false, you know that right? Between you and I, we both know I am right.

 

[-ND-]

Yup, but what you fail to see (as does Bishadi), is the gulf between what you say and the actual truth.

I have not read a thread, where you actually gave someone some help/understanding of anything. Everytime I see your name by a comment it is either: NO, Wrong, Assumption, No proof, etc. When someone asks you a true or false question, when answered false, you give them the reason why it is false. I'll take anything from you Oli, I just want to see you put some thought in your comments. If you don't, well remember that first day me and you started chatting?? I supposebly "assumed" that you were puting people down on this forum just to make your self feel better/feel smarter, not actually being.

 

[Oli]

Building the world??? Excuse me. Building the world full of greed and hate, if anything.

So where does your computer come from?
Who designed the cars that you (may or may not) drive etc?

Assumptions can be true or false, you know that right?

Correct.

Between you and I, we both know I am right.

You see?
You're assuming again.
I hold no such view.

I have not read a thread, where you actually gave someone some help/understanding of anything.

Then you don't look at anywhere near enough threads, or you're cherry-picking.
How about "planes shouldn't fly then!!" or the "Dark Suckers" threads (to give the two most recent?

Everytime I see your name by a comment it is either: NO, Wrong, Assumption, No proof, etc. When someone asks you a true or false question, when answered false, you give them the reason why it is false.

And if someone asks I'll tell, but (if you bother to check) the majority of my "wrong/ false/ assumption" comments are appended to assertions: in other words if someone makes a blank unsupported statement I won't bother to provide evidence why they're wrong until they provide the "reasoning" as to why they are are right.

I'll take anything from you Oli, I just want to see you put some thought in your comments.

Hmm, the above would indicate that it's you who aren't thinking.

If you don't, well remember that first day me and you started chatting?? I supposebly "assumed" that you were puting people down on this forum just to make your self feel better/feel smarter, not actually being.

Nope: a flat statement gets met by a flat statement - a question, or a supported statement will be met with an answer or a supported counter-argument.

 

[Cris]

-ND-, Oli,

Please stop bickering, and provide relevent content to the thread or I will delete your posts.

 

[Bishadi]

Are you talking about Armageddon? Wipe everyone out and start over?

second creation

053.047

YUSUFALI: That He hath promised a Second Creation (Raising of the Dead);
PICKTHAL: And that He hath ordained the second bringing forth;
SHAKIR: And that on Him is the bringing forth a second time;

same thing both judaism and christianity are awaiting; but most do not know what it means

read surah 17 and 20

but i think you might be talking about the utter part

067.004
YUSUFALI: Again turn thy vision a second time: (thy) vision will come back to thee dull and discomfited, in a state worn out.
PICKTHAL: Then look again and yet again, thy sight will return unto thee weakened and made dim.
SHAKIR: Then turn back the eye again and again; your look shall '~ come back to you confused while it is fatigued.

067.005
YUSUFALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
PICKTHAL: And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.
SHAKIR: And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.

them what we call 21st century firecrackers!

067.006
YUSUFALI: For those who reject their Lord (and Cherisher) is the Penalty of Hell: and evil is (such), Destination.
PICKTHAL: And for those who disbelieve in their Lord there is the doom of hell, a hapless journey's end!
SHAKIR: And for those who disbelieve in their Lord is the punishment of hell, and evil is the resort.

067.007
YUSUFALI: When they are cast therein, they will hear the (terrible) drawing in of its breath even as it blazes forth,
PICKTHAL: When they are flung therein they hear its roaring as it boileth up,
SHAKIR: When they shall be cast therein, they shall hear a loud moaning of it as it heaves,

067.008
YUSUFALI: Almost bursting with fury: Every time a Group is cast therein, its Keepers will ask, "Did no Warner come to you?"

well did no warner come to you?

Will we all get younger and go flying up our mom's wombs?

you must have some good smoke duuuude

Wouldn't that make the Quran irrelevant if the Caliphs did that?

Caliphs wrote ALL quran, muhammad was illiterate (he was dead years before the book ever made print)

007.158
YUSUFALI: Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided."

Moses and Jesus were myths. Muhammad brought only slavery and oppression.

that is a stupid comment

One cannot be honest with themselves and believe in magic, too.

then a great comment



you all over the place dude..............

about that smoke?!?!?!?

 

[Michael]

scifes,

You say Allah is ALL POWERFUL and you say Allah KNOWS EVERYTHING but then you agree YOU can do something Allah can not - you can learn. You can think.


You just logically disproved the existence of Allah.


I'm not asking you to say if one action (that of thinking) is BETTER than another (that of knowing all). That's not all at what I am talking about. I'm showing you that Allah CAN NOT exist. And, you may not realize it, but you just agreed with me.


That aside, if you are in serious danger if you became atheist then you should quite these forums as you could get hurt and really, you becoming more informed on reality is nothing compared to you losing your life.


Lastly, you should note that Allah, as a thing that ONLY Knows-All (does not think) It can not feel emotion. It does not Love, Hate, Care, Worry, Sympathize, Laugh from surprise at a joke, find joy in discovery, Learn, feel, understand, etc... NOTHING because emotion and learning and thinking are all processes that requires change in mental state. Allah can NOT change It's mental state It can ONLY exist in ALL-KNOWING like some huge computer HardDrive. Some Cold, Impassive, Unemotional ALL-KNOWING Thing.

THIS Thing, you suggest is Better?!?!

Not to me.

Michael


PS: I usually like to end a thread with something like this (as I truly wonder about human psychology):

"scifes, we are working together to bring you closer to Satan, who will eat and devour your soul, each sentence you read brings doubt, YESsss Feel the doubt rise in you as you edge closer to eternal damnation.... BWWWAAHHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!"

:mufc:

 

[-ND-]

007.158
YUSUFALI: Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided."

This Unlettered Prophet, is he yet to come or is it talking about the ones that passed?