JesseLeigh
Registered Member
To Myles from Jesse.
Afternoon!
Myles said 'I cannot find a way of putting this politely, so I shall be blunt. You are talking utter rubbish.'
And your qualifications for determining this are... what precisely?
Myles said 'So god does not listen to prayers of unbelievers. How many unbelievers do you know who pray.'
Well, Myles, they say there are no atheists hanging from the edge of cliffs and in my experience I've found this to be true. Too, many people are what one could call cultural Christians. They have been born into a family of believers and have a quasi belief in a god of some sort, but He is alien to them. Such people are not true believers even though they'd call themselves believers if asked - and most DO pray but have no knowledge of Whom they are praying to. One of the reasons God said 'My people are dying from a lack of knowledge.'
God does not listen to prayers (of even believers) that are not from the heart or which are asked out of a self-ish motive. As for healing, God heals Whom He wishes, as He sees fit. If we pray for healing and are not healed then our affliction serves some purpose in our journey toward being 'Transformed into the Image of Christ.'
Illness teaches us many things, patience, compassion, acceptance, surrender... all requirements of disciples of Christ, and our Father uses sickness as a training tool often. God has healed me several times from life-threatening maladies and rescued me from what should have been lethal situations, yet He has not (yet) chosen to heal me from injuries sustained in a car crash (five and a half years ago) that left me in a wheelchair, nor of a genetic disorder that isn't much fun to live with. I may not understand His reasons for healing me of some things but not others, but I rest assured that God knows what He is doing and will heal me if He deems it important to my spiritual journey.
Myles said 'If someone has a disease and prays for a cure, it's not a question of being ready for information; it's a cure that is required.'
In whose opinion? Perhaps the illness is necessary to cultivate a quality in the afflicted person which is necessary to his or her salvation. God doesn't take orders and we can't just hand Him our shopping lists. He does, however, take requests. The flesh is dying - all flesh is dying, and God is more interested in our spiritual (and eternal) health than in our physical state, yet He still does heal people physically daily for reasons known only to Himself.
Myles said 'Over the years, approximately 16 million people have been to Lourdes. One cure which could not be explained by doctors has been officially recorded. So, 16 million minus one believers have been praying in Lourdes. Its even worse if you consider that all these people were prayed for by the clergy who, on the face of it, could reasonably be regarded as believers.'
Your information on Lourdes differs from mine. I'm not a Catholic and so have difficulty believing in Marian apparitions because my understanding of the Bible doesn't allow for 'Saints' appointed by humans - and praying to saints in particular. I'd have no problem if the recipients said their healing came from God, but the Virgin Mary is quite another matter. OTOH, given my own experience with prayer, healing, and personal interaction with God in my life, I am unable to dismiss the *possibility* that such claims may be authentic.
Here's what this newspaper reports about healings at Lourdes. http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquir...0323-125913/150-years-of-rejoicing-at-Lourdes
'Do the sick get better in Lourdes? Although the Church has verified only 67 cases as miracles, thousands of pilgrims have reported being healed by the Virgin Mary. If they come to be physically cured and leave spiritually healed, if they come with hope and leave with inner peace, who is to say that they got nothing out of their pilgrimage?'
Physical healing occurs every day, but God rarely (if ever) fails to respond to those suffering 'in the spirit.' The spirit is the part of us that is eternal and the point within us whereby God's Spirit directly communicates with our own. At death, the flesh rots and returns to dust - it's merely a temporary 'shell' or 'housing' for our spirit. Our spirit, however, 'Returns to the true God Who gave it' - and lives on.
Sickness and death are a part of the Adamic curse, but God, in His Mercy, does heal us on an individual basis. Millions will personally testify to this and many have done so publicly. I once read a now out of print book consisting of dozens of physicians views of inexplicable healings they had personally witnessed. I'll try to locate it for you (Amazon generally has many out of print books available), it's a good, unbiased source of verified healing witnessed by MD's who were not themselves believers.
Shalom aleikhem - Jesse.
Afternoon!
Myles said 'I cannot find a way of putting this politely, so I shall be blunt. You are talking utter rubbish.'
And your qualifications for determining this are... what precisely?
Myles said 'So god does not listen to prayers of unbelievers. How many unbelievers do you know who pray.'
Well, Myles, they say there are no atheists hanging from the edge of cliffs and in my experience I've found this to be true. Too, many people are what one could call cultural Christians. They have been born into a family of believers and have a quasi belief in a god of some sort, but He is alien to them. Such people are not true believers even though they'd call themselves believers if asked - and most DO pray but have no knowledge of Whom they are praying to. One of the reasons God said 'My people are dying from a lack of knowledge.'
God does not listen to prayers (of even believers) that are not from the heart or which are asked out of a self-ish motive. As for healing, God heals Whom He wishes, as He sees fit. If we pray for healing and are not healed then our affliction serves some purpose in our journey toward being 'Transformed into the Image of Christ.'
Illness teaches us many things, patience, compassion, acceptance, surrender... all requirements of disciples of Christ, and our Father uses sickness as a training tool often. God has healed me several times from life-threatening maladies and rescued me from what should have been lethal situations, yet He has not (yet) chosen to heal me from injuries sustained in a car crash (five and a half years ago) that left me in a wheelchair, nor of a genetic disorder that isn't much fun to live with. I may not understand His reasons for healing me of some things but not others, but I rest assured that God knows what He is doing and will heal me if He deems it important to my spiritual journey.
Myles said 'If someone has a disease and prays for a cure, it's not a question of being ready for information; it's a cure that is required.'
In whose opinion? Perhaps the illness is necessary to cultivate a quality in the afflicted person which is necessary to his or her salvation. God doesn't take orders and we can't just hand Him our shopping lists. He does, however, take requests. The flesh is dying - all flesh is dying, and God is more interested in our spiritual (and eternal) health than in our physical state, yet He still does heal people physically daily for reasons known only to Himself.
Myles said 'Over the years, approximately 16 million people have been to Lourdes. One cure which could not be explained by doctors has been officially recorded. So, 16 million minus one believers have been praying in Lourdes. Its even worse if you consider that all these people were prayed for by the clergy who, on the face of it, could reasonably be regarded as believers.'
Your information on Lourdes differs from mine. I'm not a Catholic and so have difficulty believing in Marian apparitions because my understanding of the Bible doesn't allow for 'Saints' appointed by humans - and praying to saints in particular. I'd have no problem if the recipients said their healing came from God, but the Virgin Mary is quite another matter. OTOH, given my own experience with prayer, healing, and personal interaction with God in my life, I am unable to dismiss the *possibility* that such claims may be authentic.
Here's what this newspaper reports about healings at Lourdes. http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquir...0323-125913/150-years-of-rejoicing-at-Lourdes
'Do the sick get better in Lourdes? Although the Church has verified only 67 cases as miracles, thousands of pilgrims have reported being healed by the Virgin Mary. If they come to be physically cured and leave spiritually healed, if they come with hope and leave with inner peace, who is to say that they got nothing out of their pilgrimage?'
Physical healing occurs every day, but God rarely (if ever) fails to respond to those suffering 'in the spirit.' The spirit is the part of us that is eternal and the point within us whereby God's Spirit directly communicates with our own. At death, the flesh rots and returns to dust - it's merely a temporary 'shell' or 'housing' for our spirit. Our spirit, however, 'Returns to the true God Who gave it' - and lives on.
Sickness and death are a part of the Adamic curse, but God, in His Mercy, does heal us on an individual basis. Millions will personally testify to this and many have done so publicly. I once read a now out of print book consisting of dozens of physicians views of inexplicable healings they had personally witnessed. I'll try to locate it for you (Amazon generally has many out of print books available), it's a good, unbiased source of verified healing witnessed by MD's who were not themselves believers.
Shalom aleikhem - Jesse.