Are Honor Killings a product of Islam?

[Bells]

Horrifying. But Sam's comment makes it sound as though there must be some behavioral imperative (the threat of death, in this case) to make someone stay.

It could very well be.

We simply do not know. The mother might fear for the safety of her other daughters or her own safety if she leaves. Or, horrible as it is to imagine it (and my apologies to Musta if this is not the case.. just mere speculation about why some female relatives do not leave in such situations), she might be complicit and feel it is just.

If you read up on honour killings, you'd find that it is quite wide spread. The Mafia, for example, are renown for killing women in their societies in what we view as honour killings.

Many Italian mobsters still think they own their women and believe they should get away with murder if they are jilted, Italy's highest court said Friday.

Rejecting a plea of 'crime of passion', the Cassation Court sentenced a Camorra boss to life for the 2000 murder of a factory worker the boss's girlfriend fell in love with.

The court, whose rulings set precedents, said the toughest penalties should be applied in cases where mobsters ''kill merely to punish someone they think belongs to them, not accepting a woman's right to live her own life''.

The Mafia has been known to apply an outdated code of honour that extends to murdering people, especially women, who have 'brought shame' on their families.

So-called honour killings are also part of Italy's legal history, where the idea was an admitted defense until 1981.

Prior to its reversal, an article existed in the Italian Criminal Code that provided a reduced penalty of imprisonment of only three to seven years for a man who killed his wife, sister or daughter to vindicate his or his family's honour.

Such crimes were once a fairly widely accepted feature of highly traditional communities in southern Italy - and even sparked an Oscar-winning 1961 comedy called Divorce, Italian Style, starring Marcello Mastroianni.

The Mafia, clinging to the past, has much more recently recently killed women who 'strayed' sexually or had children without being married.

http://www.stophonourkillings.com/?name=News&file=article&sid=3323

I mean if you want truly horrific, the case of Du’a Khalil Aswad is about as nightmarish as it can get. Having seen the video, I actually wanted to throw up and spent hours afterwards trying to keep it down so to speak.


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Big difference is the freedom women have in Australia. I dont see you volunteering to live in Pakistan.

And?

Are you suggesting that I would have to live in Pakistan to truly witness domestic violence on that scale? Don't be naive.

Violence against women is violence against women, regardless of where you happen to live. There are millions of women in the West who stay in violent households out of fear for their own safety, that of their children or family members. Sometimes the men kill them and get away with it.

Another thing about your example is that it goes both ways- women killing men in jealous rages happens as well.

Ah, but it's not a jealous rage. Honour killings have one thing in common. That being honour. If the family member(s) feel that the actions of one in their fold has dishonoured them, then they can find justification in their twisted minds to kill that individual to restore their honour. Jealousy has little to nothing to do with it. If a woman feels that her male partner has dishonoured her by looking at another woman, her killing him to restore her own honour would be a classic honour killing, but it is not viewed that way by the general public for some weird reason.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

In a honour killing, does the victim die honourably?

 

[Zakariya04]

i dont think so, but the person is killed in honour apparently.. according to the fuckas with shit in their heads who actually commit these hideous crimes...

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

The honour of killing the dishonourable goes to the one who has lost their honour irregardless of whether or not the one being killed was an honourable person by most standards. Honourable mention to those who feel the dishonourable victim also dishonoured them but it is not known if the dishonouring was intended to be honorable or dishonourable for the victim whose honourability is only considered dishonourable by the dishonoured. In honour of the dishonoured victim I would like to give them an honorable mention too but I fear that would dishonour the dishonoured one who just regained his honour. So as one honour is restored, another dishonour is dispatched...there is honour in such deeds I suppose.

 

[mustafhakofi]

I think it’s important to recognize that honor killing is not specifically a Muslim phenomenon. Although it is much more prevalence due to the Muslims having a built-in command structure that requires them to resist any changes to there barbaric religious ideology.
And because of "multiculturalism" we are required to tolerate their evil ways.

But I know of no other religion that does it.

Then you're supremely ignorant.

Domestic abuse is not only highly prevalent in all societies, but cops all over the world generally look to family first for means, motive and opportunity.

Yes agreed, domestic abuse is, but we are talking about religions.
The OP was about a religion, not domestic abuse.

I know of no other religion that does it, other than Islam.

I think you should have read my post better, you wouldn't have made such a blatant error.

Why doesn't your mother leave your father and brother?

Perhaps she has, I wouldn't know, haven't seen her in fifteen years.

 

[Orleander]

so if a christian American guy kills his wife its not an honour killing, but if a Muslim in any country does, it is? If its not in the Koran, what does it have to do with religion?

 

[John99]

well jeffrey dahmer was an atheist.

 

[swivel]

If you read up on honour killings, you'd find that it is quite wide spread. The Mafia, for example, are renown for killing women in their societies in what we view as honour killings.

Crimes of passion are not honor killings. Cultures that allow honor killings have unique features: Other people in the culture support and go along with the killings, even other women. You will not find Italian women killing their own daughters after calmly discussing the idea with their family. Honor killings are done publicly, with no shame, and little attempt to cover up the murder. Men sit around the kitchen table and discuss whether or not they need to kill a woman, the big deal being the restoration of honor to the family name. This is not the same as killing in a rage because of a woman jilting a man, or making him lose face by cheating on him. It is about having an unclean, impure woman in the household that must be removed, like a stain.

 

[Orleander]

Crimes of passion are not honor killings. Cultures that allow honor killings have unique features: Other people in the culture support and go along with the killings, even other women. You will not find Italian women killing their own daughters after calmly discussing the idea with their family. Honor killings are done publicly, with no shame, and little attempt to cover up the murder. Men sit around the kitchen table and discuss whether or not they need to kill a woman, the big deal being the restoration of honor to the family name. This is not the same as killing in a rage because of a woman jilting a man, or making him lose face by cheating on him. It is about having an unclean, impure woman in the household that must be removed, like a stain.

?? But then example you gave in the OP isn't an honour killing. It was a crime of passion and he is in jail, so how was it allowed?

 

[j.a.g]

so if a christian American guy kills his wife its not an honour killing, but if a Muslim in any country does, it is? If its not in the Koran, what does it have to do with religion?

hi

honour killing is done by indians too,hindus . it have nothing to do with religion,but with culture. in hinduism,women used to be burned alive if their husband died. it still happen in sum villages.in many villages,girls are boiled alive when they are born,becuase of a hindu ritual. and many muslims in pakistan do the same,they use their culture and not the book.

its also made a movie about it,i dont remember its name.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes agreed, domestic abuse is, but we are talking about religions.
The OP was about a religion, not domestic abuse.

I know of no other religion that does it, other than Islam.

Islam is not a person. And domestic violence by any other name is domestic violence.

I think you should have read my post better, you wouldn't have made such a blatant error.

Perhaps she has, I wouldn't know, haven't seen her in fifteen years.

Strange, with a father and brother like that, you didn't even check up on her?

In a honour killing, does the victim die honourably?

Sometimes they get awards posthumously.

Its the difference between the "guilt" culture of the west and the "shame" culture of the east.

http://www.doceo.co.uk/background/shame_guilt.htm

 

[mustafhakofi]

Islam is not a person. And domestic violence by any other name is domestic violence.

Who said it was a person, But it is a the religion in question in the OP.

Strange, with a father and brother like that, you didn't even check up on her?

She didn't refuse her fathers wishes, she wasn't in fear of her life, sadly checking up on her, would entail putting myself in harms way, and possible my husband and children, I cant take that risk.

 

[S.A.M.]

Who said it was a person, But it is a the religion in question in the OP.

I can substitute that with any other eastern culture.

Eight people in an impoverished Indian family were shot and beheaded in a suspected "honor killing" after a family member married a wealthy girl, police said.

Police in Bhagalpur in the northern Indian state of Bihar found the eight bodies floating in the Ganges River and charged 15 people, mostly from the girl's family, with the killings.

The killings took place after Ratan Mandal, 21, eloped with Kanchan Kumari, 18, last month, police said.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/02/12/Eight_beheaded_in_Indian_honor_killing/UPI-87561234460690/

You seem to live in a very limited world.

She didn't refuse her fathers wishes, she wasn't in fear of her life, sadly checking up on her, would entail putting myself in harms way, and possible my husband and children, I cant take that risk.

Then there is no love lost either way, is it?

 

[swivel]

?? But then example you gave in the OP isn't an honour killing. It was a crime of passion and he is in jail, so how was it allowed?

I guess you know more about the case than I do. My understanding is that the man has been talking about the need to kill his wife if he leaves her, she has been fearing for her life and had a restraining order of some sort out on her husband. He sawed her head off and then strolled into a Buffalo police station.

Ironically, the man ran a TV network designed to help Americans understand Muslims better and to present the religion as one of peace.

I guess your argument is that the man did not follow the Koran literally and use rocks, so this wasn't an honor killing? I suppose you have a point there.

 

[S.A.M.]

A woman can leave her husband if she wants to. Thats not honor killing. Thats just good old fashioned jealousy. Which is why he walked into a cop station.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I would have thought that by now Islam, seeing how it is such a progressive religion that dwarfs the others through its own peaceful resolve, would have taken the lead in eradicating such Neanderthal customs and traditions from the impressionable minds of its followers.

Islam, I beseech thee to show me the true path to forgiveness and mercy.

 

[S.A.M.]

I would have thought that by now Islam, seeing how it is such a progressive religion that dwarfs the others through its own peaceful resolve, would have taken the lead in eradicating such Neanderthal customs and traditions from the impressionable minds of its followers.

Islam, I beseech thee to show me the true path to forgiveness and mercy.

Like turning the other cheek with Christianity?

Alas people will find excuses to do what they want. Regardless of religion. If they cannot behead them, they'll hack them

A British man who killed his wife with a meat cleaver because she changed her Facebook status to "single" was sentenced to at least 14 years in a U.K. prison Friday, the Daily Mail reported.

Wayne Forrester, 35, was under the influence of alcohol and cocaine when he drove to their family home and murdered his wife, Emma, as she slept in her bed. The couple had recently separated and Forrester felt humiliated when Emma changed her relationship status to single on Facebook.

The police were called amid Emma’s screams for her life. Wayne emerged from the house, drenched in blood and gripping a carton of juice when the police arrived. Holding his stained hands out for handcuffs, the Mail Online reports he told police, "Who called you? My wife is in there. I killed her."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,439961,00.html

An Australian man was charged Tuesday with hacking his wife and two grandchildren to death and badly wounding his daughter in an axe attack that has shocked Australia.

John Walsh, 69, did not enter a plea and was ordered to be held in custody when he appeared in court briefly on three charges of murder and one of attempted murder stemming from Monday's attack in Cowra, 155 miles (250 kilometres) west of Sydney. He will return to court next Monday.

He faces a maximum penalty of life in prison. Investigators had few clues to the motive of the attack, which took place in the house where the man and his wife often looked after their grandchildren while their mother went to work as a police officer.

"We're all at a bit of a loss. We will get to the bottom of it," said New South Wales state police Commissioner Andrew Scipione.

http://www.screenindia.com/news/australian-man-hacks-grandchildren-&-wife-to-death/329869/

 

[swivel]

Like turning the other cheek with Christianity?

Alas people will find excuses to do what they want. Regardless of religion. If they cannot behead them, they'll hack them

Great defense.

Islam, now only as crazy as Christianity!

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

If Islam can stop the practice first then just think of the admiration for the most peaceful religion on Earth. Think of how proud all Muslims would be, knowing that Allah had selected them to demonstrate his peaceful intentions.

 

[swivel]

If Islam can stop the practice first then just think of the admiration for the most peaceful religion on Earth. Think of how proud all Muslims would be, knowing that Allah had selected them to demonstrate his peaceful intentions.

I'll think of you every time I use this argument in the future.