Are Honor Killings a product of Islam?

[River Ape]

I should have more faith that future generations of my family would survive in an Islamic culture (or one that practiced an equally strict code) than in the flabby decadent broken society that is modern Britain.

Honour killings certainly take place among Hindus as well as Muslims - sometimes for liaisons which seek to breach barriers of caste.
Christianity is on the wane because it has become too tolerant and wishy-washy even to administer a slap on the wrist.

I admit that when a life is taken, something has gone wrong. The same applies to a man hanged for murder; he was not deterred. But a shrugging acceptance that "anything goes" is tantamount to condoning social anarchy.

 

[John99]

But a shrugging acceptance that "anything goes" is tantamount to condoning social anarchy.

i am not saying anything goes just that not everything someone else says goes. people are not property, you dont own another person. i see families all around me, much more than people doing whatever they want or living promiscuously so i really dont know what you are referring to by social anarchy.

 

[John99]

as a matter of fact families and family life is the overwhelming majority and anything else is looked at as odd but acceptable.

 

[River Ape]

You probably live in a superior neighbourhood, John.

 

[John99]

not really, i have come to accept rejection as a part of life and it is normal. i cannot force my will upon others.

 

[GeoffP]

Honour killings certainly take place among Hindus as well as Muslims - sometimes for liaisons which seek to breach barriers of caste.

Nor is that acceptable either. The real transgression is when such passes into cultural acceptance or even - dare I say it - law.

 

[S.A.M.]

Like occupation? Torture? Apartheid?

One woman is a tragedy.

A million people are just a statistic.

 

[iceaura]

So when I come upon a society that approves of honour killings, and understand that they are part of a continuing tradition of practice, I reckon that they serve some socially useful purpose.

There are plenty of societies that manage without honor killings, and have for hundreds, possibly thousands, of years.

If you look at the genetics of the older Islamic societies, a few men in the past have contributed disproportionately to the present- so your confidence in your family or genetic heritage being passed on, in honor killing societies, is perhaps misplaced. What are the actual odds?

One woman is a tragedy.

There have been thousands of honor killings - and the intimidation factor of even one is significant.

Like the KKK lynchings of the American south, it only takes a few per area per generation.

 

[swivel]

Christianity is on the wane because it has become too tolerant and wishy-washy even to administer a slap on the wrist.

Wowsers.

 

[q0101]

Incidentally Islam is the culture, there is no separation.
Hence why I said what other religion do you find honour killings within. You don't!

That is not true. It is more of a cultural problem than a religious problem. It is all about cultural traditions and the way that people choose to interpret the Quran. Honors killings are common in India. It is not a problem that is exclusive to Muslim women. It happens to Sikh and Hindu women also. A large percentage of the honor killings occur when a woman chooses to marry a man from a different religion or a lower caste.

 

[lightgigantic]

We just had another Muslim behead his wife over here in the States, and I know England has seen a remarkable rise in honor killings of late. Are these a cultural abomination, a religious tradition, or a bit of both?

hmmm

let's reduce this argument to it's essential components .... "wherever you find any strain of islam you find honor killings?"
Answer?
well?

 

[j.a.g]

In clear violation of the Quran and Sunnah, many Muslim girls are, nevertheless, killed in the name of family honor, by their fathers or brothers. Instead of being ashamed, they feel honored by these killings! Yet these fathers and brothers are very particular about their daily prayers. Which God are they praying to? Certainly not the God of the Quran. Prophet (PBUH) saved girls from being killed by the pagan Meccans in the name of family honor.

81:8When the little girl that was buried alive is made to ask -
81:9For what crime she was slain.




(Nowadays there are, on the average, more than one honor killings per day in Pakistan [Pakistan Link, April 24, 2000])

it is a shame that many people commit crimes in the name of religion.

 

[mustafhakofi]

That is not true. It is more of a cultural problem than a religious problem. It is all about cultural traditions and the way that people choose to interpret the Quran. Honors killings are common in India. It is not a problem that is exclusive to Muslim women. It happens to Sikh and Hindu women also. A large percentage of the honor killings occur when a woman chooses to marry a man from a different religion or a lower caste.

I think it’s important to recognize that honor killing is not specifically a Muslim phenomenon. Although it is much more prevalence due to the Muslims having a built-in command structure that requires them to resist any changes to there barbaric religious ideology.
And because of "multiculturalism" we are required to tolerate their evil ways.

But I know of no other religion that does it.

The Indian caste system supposedly outlawed, still has so called honour killings, however the Indian caste system is not a religion. These are not honour killings in the name of Hindu religion, or the Sikh religion. it is not something that is ingrained within Hindu culture or Sikh culture, the caste system is still also very prevalent in Pakistan, an Islamic country, so it is twice as bad there.

Pakistan however is not the only Islamic country. All other Islamic Countries have honour killings.

 

[GeoffP]

Like occupation? Torture? Apartheid?

One woman is a tragedy.

A million people are just a statistic.

I suppose that explains why so little attention has been paid to the abuse of women in Pakistan and Turkey, say.

Again: you're getting off topic with the torture etc. Tu quoque isn't going to solve your problems.

 

[S.A.M.]

But I know of no other religion that does it.

Then you're supremely ignorant.

Domestic abuse is not only highly prevalent in all societies, but cops all over the world generally look to family first for means, motive and opportunity.

Why doesn't your mother leave your father and brother?

 

[GeoffP]

....because she cares for them?

What are you driving at here? I have a suspicion, but I'm hoping it's false.

 

[Bells]

....because she cares for them?

What are you driving at here? I have a suspicion, but I'm hoping it's false.

Because sometimes, the women in the family or the community will support or help in harming or killing the poor individual who has apparently brought dishonour upon the family.

"Females in the family—mothers, mothers-in-law, sisters, and cousins—frequently support the attacks. It's a community mentality," said Zaynab Nawaz, a program assistant for women's human rights at Amnesty International.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html

If that is the situation in her case, it might be better she does not have any contact with her mother or sisters who might have supported her demise. Alternatively, they may be trapped and unable to leave the household out of fear they could suffer the same fate. Either way, she is well to be far away from them and her children well out of danger.

To say that it is restricted to Islam or a product of Islam is false. It is a cultural nightmare. A tribal nightmare where women are abused, raped and/or killed in the name of honour. In societies where women are deemed to be property, there will be violence against those women. Such violence occurs in every society on this planet.

Let me give you an example..

If an Anglo Saxon man in Australia (as one example), kills his wife because she looked and smiled at another man and he saw that as shaming him or lessening his manhood, it is called domestic violence. If the same situation occurs in Pakistan (again, another example), it is viewed as an 'honour killing'.

 

[jayleew]

I'm an atheist, and of that culture, I would never take that view.
Ask any atheist. Killing is never the best course of action, but to the religious, killing the unbelievers, (and this does also mean people of other religions) is ingrained in to them they are all pro god (fantasy) but anti human. (reality)

Incidentally Islam is the culture, there is no separation.
Hence why I said what other religion do you find honour killings within. You don't!

Religion is dangerous. There is no other way to put it. It can make a righteous man into a cold blooded killer. I don't care about what one's personal faith and belief in a god is, they ought not presume that they are in a position to make a judgement of who lives or dies. That should be left up to their respective god. It is prideful and arrogant for a person to believe that they are a perfect example of a Muslim, Christian, or whatever. Their perceived relationship with an unheard god is irrelevant to the truth of their relaionship with the god. That is why a human life should not be taken in the name of a god.

The problem is, the hurting man takes comfort in the word of their god.

I'm positive the killing felt wholesome and holy, based on how I felt when I was a Christian following scriptural teaching word for word, and thought for thought. It feels wholesome and holy to follow the words of one's god. Therin lies the danger of religion, especially ones that condone taking human life.

 

[GeoffP]

Because sometimes, the women in the family or the community will support or help in harming or killing the poor individual who has apparently brought dishonour upon the family.

Horrifying. But Sam's comment makes it sound as though there must be some behavioral imperative (the threat of death, in this case) to make someone stay.

 

[John99]

Let me give you an example..

If an Anglo Saxon man in Australia (as one example), kills his wife because she looked and smiled at another man and he saw that as shaming him or lessening his manhood, it is called domestic violence. If the same situation occurs in Pakistan (again, another example), it is viewed as an 'honour killing'.

Big difference is the freedom women have in Australia and are able to actually leave a man without major obstacles put in her path. I dont see you volunteering to live in Pakistan.

Another thing about your example is that it goes both ways- women killing men in jealous rages happens as well and will continue to happen for as long as there are women and men.