Are gay/lesbian immoral ?

[heart]

Saint,

First, if you feel to procreate is the only means that constitutes a marriage, then that would mean heterosexual couples who are unable to have children should not get married?

I'm not sure what you mean by "value" of a family, but to me family means a heck of a lot more than just procreation. (BTW- as already pointed out- homosexual couples can adopt and let's not forget artificial insemination)

 

[SwedishFish]

how you get through a day without accidentally dying is beyond me. you have your head so far up your ass and no grasp of logic whatsoever. i'm washing my hands of this.

 

[Persol]

Originally posted by SwedishFish
how you get through a day without accidentally dying is beyond me.
Wow, that's great... really... but I fail to see what that has to do with what I said..

you have your head so far up your ass and no grasp of logic whatsoever.
If you want to point out my flaw in logic fine, but you have not done so.

Look up 'right'. It has nothing to do with what you are 'allowed' to do and not interfereing with other people.

Look up 'freedom'. Just because you are free to do something doesn't make that something a right.

 

[Saint]

Who can justify to me that the pennis of man is meant to penetrate the anus of another man, as practised by most gays to release their sexual desire.

 

[Saint]

Family = One Father + One Mother + Child/children.

Is this definition clear ?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

To Persol:War, abortion, and the electric chair are not considered rights by most people. You have the right to choice, not to abortion. As for war and the electric chair, this is about taking rights... not giving them.


Well they are considered rights to someone because it seems to take place a hell of a lot. The government believed it had a right to invade Iraq (unprovoked I may add) and in Texas the State has the right to take a life of a criminial if it deems it necessary. You say that I have a right to choice but not to abortion? Well I am definitely confused! How can I have a right to choice but no right to act on the choice?
So what exactly is a right to you anyway?

Concerning homosexuality you wrote:This assumes it is genetic... which I disagree with. I believe it is mostly choice/enviroment, but that doesn't make it wrong.

I never said that homosexuality is wrong. I simply was stating
to the Saint that there will always be more heterosexuals as opposed to homosexuals (propogation of the species dictates that), so he does not have to worry about the continuation of the family or the species. I haven't said anything about it being genetic or not.

To Mystech you wrote riginally posted by Lucysnow
Just because nobody has told you not to do it does not make it a right. That is the basis of my argument.

I never posted that.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Persol you responded to Mystech by saying:
I agree... except for the rights part. These actions may be 'rights', but you alone can not decide this. This rest with the 'people', not the 'person'.

So are you saying that if the 'people' unanimously decided that short people let's say no longer have the right to take a shit then the short people no longer have the right to take a shit?

I mean are you saying that there are absolutely no rights whatsoever except what other people have decided upon?

To the Saint: There was never a father in my household. Are you trying to say then that the household I grew up in with grandmother, mother and myself was not a family? Careful now

 

[heart]

Saint,

I am curious, do you feel that a heterosexual couple who cannot or do not want to have children have the right to be in a relationship?

Originally posted by Saint
Who can justify to me that the pennis of man is meant to penetrate the anus of another man, as practised by most gays to release their sexual desire.

You know, there are heterosexual couples who engage in anal penetration..

What the heck does it matter if it's woman and woman, man and man, or man and woman? We are simply talking about gender preference. How a couple has sex &/or what position they have it in shouldn't matter as long as it is consensual and no harm is done.

I can see it's hard for you to relate being attracted to someone of the same sex and how it can make sense in your mind. But, just because you can't make sense of it all doesn't make it wrong.

 

[GuitarToadster]

Ok, here's my blabbering about this....

Being gay IS unnatural. Simple. There are men and women for a reason, to create new life. A man's organ is made to enter a woman's organ.

There is a reason, also, why it is PAINFULL to have anal sex the first time and several other times afterward, because a man's penis should not enter it. I am a man and have no desire to stick my pencil in a woman's or a man's poop hole. Sorry. It is sick.

Remember growing up and seeing two male dogs trying to screw? It was funny wasn't it? Everyone knew it was not gonna work. Did you get turned on by watching it? Hope not.

I have nothing against gay people, I have known many, many of them and liked most of them but they need help. Most of them needed therapy for one reason or another. I don't feel it just should be accepted the way it has become.

Still, the bottom line is, you can do whatever it is your little heart desires behind closed doors. You can be gay or get spanked by some women all dressed in leather, I care not. Just don't expect me to be happy to see two men sucking face on a park bench. Get a room.

As a side note, what the heck is up with this gay pride crap and marching around the streets? Ever seen a heterosexual pride march? Didn't think so.

 

[Mystech]

Originally posted by Persol
Originally posted by SwedishFish

Look up 'right'. It has nothing to do with what you are 'allowed' to do and not interfereing with other people.

Look up 'freedom'. Just because you are free to do something doesn't make that something a right.

Look you're going to have to state your position in more descriptive terms, because I just don't think that anyone is understanding just what you're trying to say, or what you're basing it on.

Why aren't these things Rights? If they aren't rights, then what are they, and what determines, in your opinion (Which obviously differs from those of the American legal system, as well as most everyone else takling here) is a right?

What do you mean by a "right to freedom"? Isn't freedom just a catch all term we use for an amalgamation of rights granted?

 

[Mystech]

Originally posted by Saint
Who can justify to me that the pennis of man is meant to penetrate the anus of another man, as practised by most gays to release their sexual desire.

Saying that it was "meant" to do anything impliese intentional design, which, frankly, is just absurd.

A penis CAN penetrate a females, you know what, and this can bring sexual gradification, and it can also penetrate you know where on another male, which also brings sexual gratification. Why should it be said that one is the right way and the other wrong? Certainly there is a right way for procreation, but when the act goes beyond procreation, then what?

 

[Mystech]

Originally posted by Saint
Family = One Father + One Mother + Child/children.

Is this definition clear ?

Yes, but morbidly narrow. Who thought a communist could be so conservative?

 

[Mystech]

Originally posted by GuitarToadster
Being gay IS unnatural. Simple.

It seems pretty natural to me. It's my natural inclination. It occurs in nature, other animals display it.

Maybe your defenition of "natural" differs a bit? That's pretty likely, I assume, not even the FDA has a set standard for what constitutes "natural".

Originally posted by GuitarToadster
There are men and women for a reason, to create new life. A man's organ is made to enter a woman's organ.

Yes, that is because it is only through men and women copulating that the syclical process of life can continue, but again, is procreation the only worth wile goal in life? Is the only thought one can look fondly upon while on their death bed "Well I'm glad I had all those kids"?

Also, I'd submit that a man's organ is not made to enter a womans organ. It just happens to work that way, and variations (and there certainly are variations, look in your medical journals) can not produce the same cycle that we currently have going now, and being that they do not perpetuate themselves we don't usualy get a very good look at these deviations before they die out. Does this mean that men and women are inherently superior to any other abberation that could exist? Of course not, it just means that we will continue to see men and women.

Originally posted by GuitarToadster
There is a reason, also, why it is PAINFULL to have anal sex the first time and several other times afterward, because a man's penis should not enter it. I am a man and have no desire to stick my pencil in a woman's or a man's poop hole. Sorry. It is sick.

Yes, the reason that it may hurt a bit is because it's a tight little hole that you are trying to jam a bit hard rod into. Were you aware that girls often experience pain upon being penetrated?

Also, as a general rule, if anal sex hurts, then you are doing it wrong. Use more lube you amateur It's supposed to feel good!

And hey, I have no problem if you want to stick your dick into a girl's slimy pee hole (Sick!) what you do in your own bedroom is none of my business.

Originally posted by GuitarToadster
I have nothing against gay people, I have known many, many of them and liked most of them but they need help. Most of them needed therapy for one reason or another. I don't feel it just should be accepted the way it has become.

Why shouldn't homosexuality be accepted? Why do you have any right to say it's wrong or even make a judgement about it, which you feel should actually apply to them?

And I'll admit it, more homosexuals are in need of therapy than heterosexuals, there's no denying that. Homosexual teens have a much higher suicide rate than heterosexual teens, as well. This is because of the environment that society creates for them. You try being disowned by your family, beaten and sneered at, told you're an abomination against god, unnatural, and that you shouldn't be accepted in society, disenfranchised by your own government and then maybe we'll see if you could benefit from having a trained professional to talk to regularly.

Originally posted by GuitarToadster
Still, the bottom line is, you can do whatever it is your little heart desires behind closed doors. You can be gay or get spanked by some women all dressed in leather, I care not. Just don't expect me to be happy to see two men sucking face on a park bench. Get a room.

Hey now, what a cheap shot. Homosexuality isn't just some kinky sex thing, don't compare it to bondage. As for two guys making out on a park bench, do you honestly see that kind of thing? Where I live it's a good way to get harassed, or beat. Besides, in general it's just rude to be doing that kind of thing, you shouldn't be any more annoyed by it than you would a heterosexual couple sucking face in public.

Originally posted by GuitarToadster
As a side note, what the heck is up with this gay pride crap and marching around the streets? Ever seen a heterosexual pride march? Didn't think so.

Well that's kind of like asking what the difference between a white power march, and an African American civil rights protest of the 60s is. Do you really need someone to point it out for you?

How about this, you and your people go be an oppressed minority for a few centuries, be made to feel shame for who you are at every turn, and then get a little taste of acceptance, and see if maybe you don't finally band together and make every effort to show the world that you're never going back to that place in which you had been put. In all fairness, though those parades are a little over the top, hah, you wouldn't find me marching in one. . . there's gay pride and then there's just outright flamboyant faggyness, hehe.

*yawn* Verbal bitch slap dealt. I'm going to bed. This really is just getting too easy, I should go public with this stuff.

 

[okinrus]

When did animals decide what is right? Are you seriously suggesting that we look at apes, dogs and dolphins and do what they do? In most cases it's just animals male bonding or other signs of affection such as licking. Also evidence shows that many animals that engage in homosexual acts also engage in heterosexual acts. Therefore, our sexual orientation is probably not determined only by our genes.

 

[Nasor]

Originally posted by Mystech
Well I was born and raised in the United States, and am currently living there right now, and as far as I can tell sex is indeed a fundamental legal right. In fact, if you didn't have your head up your ass you might even realize that the supreme court ruled on exactly that not less than one month ago.

Wrong. The Supreme Court ruled that the Texas sodomy law was unconstitutional because it was discriminatory in its enforcement; they did not say that sodomy or any other kind of sex is a fundamental right. There's an important legal difference. Many legal scholars were expecting (or at least hoping) that the court would rule on the issue of whether or not people have sexual rights, but they declined to comment on it. Instead they struck down the Texas sodomy law specifically because it could not be enforced without violating the due process clause (which is the 14th amendment, not the 9th) by unfairly focusing the attention of the police on a specific group – i.e., homosexuals.

Look up Lawrence and Garner Vs. Texas. Or better than that, Read the god damned constitution, you ignoramus.

Pay special attention to the ninth amendment.

The 9th amendment does not give you the right to do anything and everything. The government can still make pretty much anything it wants illegal, so long as it doesn't violate due process. You don't have any more of a fundamental right to have sex then you do to drive without a seatbelt or use marijuana.

I don't know what kind of communist dictatorship you live in, sir, but here in the States people are entitled to basic fundamental liberties.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but you don't have a fundamental right to do whatever you want. I think you really need to read a book or something that explains how the US government and legal system work. As a libertarian I wish that the US legal system worked the way that you seem to imagine it to, but unfortunately it doesn't.

 

[heart]

GuitarToadster,

Being gay IS unnatural. Simple. There are men and women for a reason, to create new life. A man's organ is made to enter a woman's organ

I will ask this question again, unnatural for whom? For me, being with a man is 100% unnatural, and I'm all woman. I don't dislike men- I can be friends with them, but no more. Why? Been there done that-it's just unnatural for me. With that in mind, I don't think that heterosexuality is wrong just because it's unnatural for me. That would be pretty narrow minded and just plain crazy.

I believe there is more in life than just copulating and procreating. Also, as someone stated earlier, there is not a worry about the decline in procreation as there are more heterosexuals than homosexuals.

I have nothing against gay people, I have known many, many of them and liked most of them but they need help. Most of them needed therapy for one reason or another. I don't feel it just should be accepted the way it has become.

Need help just because they are homosexual or need help, as Mystech pointed out, because of all the badgering they face? We all have problems from time to time and we all need help from time to time, but to say a homosexual needs help JUST because of their sexual preference is just as crazy as saying a heterosexual needs help because of their sexual preference.

Still, the bottom line is, you can do whatever it is your little heart desires behind closed doors. You can be gay or get spanked by some women all dressed in leather, I care not. Just don't expect me to be happy to see two men sucking face on a park bench. Get a room

Wow, do you really believe that homosexuality is all about sex and the display thereof? There are far too many hate crimes against homosexuals to be advertising it on a park bench and not that we would want to.

As a side note, what the heck is up with this gay pride crap and marching around the streets? Ever seen a heterosexual pride march? Didn't think so.

Mystech summed this one up quite well- I couldn't agree with him more.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Okinrus the biologists argument is to prove that homosexuality exists and is practiced in animal nature, it is not a moral argument. What you consider right in this sense ie. homosexuality, is for you to decide for yourself. Obviously you have no inclination towards the act, which is fine, it just surprises me that adults are concerned with the sexual practises of other consenting adults.

 

[Mystech]

Originally posted by Nasor
Wrong. The Supreme Court ruled that the Texas sodomy law was unconstitutional because it was discriminatory in its enforcement; they did not say that sodomy or any other kind of sex is a fundamental right. [/B]

No, they banned ALL sodomy laws (those effecting both hetero and homosexuals, as well) based on privacy issues. In other words, they recognized that the government has to stay out of people's bedrooms when it comes to consenting unrelated adults.

 

[Mystech]

Originally posted by okinrus
When did animals decide what is right? Are you seriously suggesting that we look at apes, dogs and dolphins and do what they do? In most cases it's just animals male bonding or other signs of affection such as licking. Also evidence shows that many animals that engage in homosexual acts also engage in heterosexual acts. Therefore, our sexual orientation is probably not determined only by our genes.

Hehe, ahh, Okinrus you are learning! Your argument now is "Why should we care about what is 'natural'?" You made the point better than I could have, thank you.

 

[SwedishFish]

Originally posted by Saint
Who can justify to me that the pennis of man is meant to penetrate the anus of another man, as practised by most gays to release their sexual desire.

so i take it if i offered you a blowjob right now you'd decline? by your terms, penises are not meant to do that. i know a hetero bloke who would like a girl to use a strap-on to penetrate him simply because it feels good. what about tongues? what are they meant to do? some people like to use them for more than eating and talking. many like to involve them in kissing. often on other places than the mouth...saaaaay the sex organs. completely unnatural eh? shall we take a survey (we can keep it to this board alone) of how many people object to that? i'll take bets. my money is on most people enjoying more than procreative missionary sex :snooore:: ).

but the sexual acts are never a factor in fag bashing anyway, only justification for it