Are all soldiers like the Nazis?

S.A.M. said:
I don't think its torture when they both have the same opportunity to live. Its torture when one is shredding the others arms and legs because he/she has more power, usually. Its why the victim is usually shown bound. Torture is inherently a power equation, much like tossing cluster bombs from people who cannot defend themselves. Its why countries who throw such bombs usually do not throw them on people with weapons that can reach them.
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So, if a group of people with c4, a copperhead, wire, blast caps blow a hole through 8 inches of steel blowing a mans legs off and another mans arm off who are doing a presence patrol or picking up mail torture?

Or do you think it's fair because we can kill them with similar style weapons when they are conducting operations that can kill a man with these same means.. or i should say potentionally kill and "torture".
 
RickyH said:
So, if a group of people with c4, a copperhead, wire, blast caps blow a hole through 8 inches of steel blowing a mans legs off and another mans arm off who are doing a presence patrol or picking up mail torture?

Or do you think it's fair because we can kill them with similar style weapons when they are conducting operations that can kill a man with these same means.. or i should say potentionally kill and "torture".
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Do you think an IED that blows up a tank is different from a cluster bomb that kills mostly civilians?
 
when was the last nato cluster bomb used? how many civillians have died in comparison to what is considered enemy
 
RickyH said:
when was the last nato cluster bomb used? how many civillians have died in comparison to what is considered enemy
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Why don't you tell me? Also tell me how many US deaths are acceptable by IED in comparison to Iraqi/Afghani death by cluster bombs and flechettes [not to mention white phosphorus]

As you know, the United States has a policy of not counting the foreign casualties in its war [unlike the nazis, who apparently maintained diligent records]
 
S.A.M. said:
Why don't you tell me? Also tell me how many US deaths are acceptable by IED in comparison to Iraqi/Afghani death by cluster bombs and flechettes [not to mention white phosphorus]

As you know, the United States has a policy of not counting the foreign casualties in its war [unlike the nazis, who apparently maintained diligent records]
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If I was the one who made the claim, i'd be glad to show you. But, you said it with conviction. I want to see your reference.

I can tell you 3 weeks ago a twin car bomb killed over 130 civillians. In iraq.


news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8324546.stm

www.silobreaker.com/100-dead-twin-blasts-hit-baghdad-5_2262692833221672983

www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26259640-952,00.html

What proof do you have of americans not counting? Why is there always a number of dead civillians if no one is counting?
 
RickyH said:
when was the last nato cluster bomb used? how many civillians have died in comparison to what is considered enemy
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Very few have been used in Afghanistan as there are less large troop formations as there were in Kuwait and Iraq. Drones cause most civilian deaths in Afghanistan. As to the numbers UNAMA estimates roughly 1,013 casualties for 2009. As insurgents mingle with civilians its difficult to gage who is who. 59% of those numbers claimed have been caused by anti-government elements, 30% caused by international forces and 10% by either. So who knows, the whole thing is a colossal mistake anyway. I say bring everyone home and leave them to their own devices.

Sam is never concerned when Muslims kill other muslims she's only upset when a Westerner kills a muslims.
 
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Lucysnow said:
Very few have been used in Afghanistan as there are less large troop formations as there were in Kuwait and Iraq. Drones cause most civilian deaths in Afghanistan. As to the numbers UNAMA estimates roughly 1,013 casualties for 2009. As insurgents mingle with civilians its difficult to gage who is who. 59% of those numbers claimed have been caused by anti-government elements, 30% caused by international forces and 10% by either. So who knows, the whole thing is a colossal mistake anyway. I say bring everyone home and leave them to their own devices.
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By drones, do you mean UAVS like the predator aka RQ-1?
 
excuse me, MQ-1. RQ is a raven i believe. i had them mixed up.

are you aware of how a UAV is operated?
 
Its an unmanned helicopter or airplane. It is operated from the ground by a pilot who operates all systems through a signal to the airplane. Its like a model airplane navigated by someone who is at a distance.
 
S.A.M. said:
Do they just mindlessly follow orders even when they are wrong? Do they all justify wrong behaviour with ideology?
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Yes most soldiers are like robots and just follow orders .
They joined the military for the money .
Most of them are just following politicians orders with no conscience and no ideology . They are used by the politicians who send them everywhere they want . If you are like a robot with no conscience what respect, dignity, honour or heroism do you deserve ?!......:shrug::shrug:.
 
That is a correct statement.

The shortest school you can have is for the raven. The raven is a small observation UAV. It's primarily used in combat to record data and give commanders a better observation of the battlespace. It has no weapons. The class is 3 weeks long I believe.

The MQ-1 is different because it has 2 hellfire missles on it. It's only used when there is absolute certainty from a commander. It is weird to me that this has been the biggest airborne killer of civillians. If that's what you were implying by your statement.

So, I am wondering if you have any data on this killing civillians.
 
S.A.M. said:
Actually I am not implying anything of the sort, as I have reiterated before, I am asking if all soldiers kill on orders and justify it by <insert ideology of choice>

People are discussing methods of killing so I simply stated if the choice of method matters when killing. Is it "better" to kill by some means rather than others?
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SAM the soldiers are robots these days .
Look at them they just repeat what their politicians tell them like parrots .
 
Rick:

Actually I am not implying anything of the sort, as I have reiterated before, I am asking if all soldiers kill on orders and justify it by <insert ideology of choice>

People are discussing methods of killing so I simply stated if the choice of method matters when killing. Is it "better" to kill by some means rather than others?

If your family was at the receiving end, which method of killing would be acceptable to you?

Would you prefer it if they were hacked to death, torn to shreds by cluster bombs, ripped apart by flechettes or melted by white phosphorus?

RickyH said:
So, I am wondering if you have any data on this killing civillians.
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Data I could find:
Drones kill more civilians than insurgents. The Brookings Institution estimated in July 2009 that a ratio of ten civilians die for every militant killed in a drone strike. Local authorities say the ratio is more like 50 civilians killed for every 1 insurgent. Regardless of the exact number, civilian deaths have both moral and strategic implications.

In July 2009, U.N. Human Rights Council Special Investigator Philip Alston chastised the US for failing to track, investigate, and punish low ranking soldiers for drone strikes that kill civilians, for failing to tell the public the extent of civilian deaths, and for not compensating families of victims
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As you can see, no numbers

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-schirch/the-costs-of-drone-strike_b_319318.html
 
RickyH said:
That is a correct statement.

The shortest school you can have is for the raven. The raven is a small observation UAV. It's primarily used in combat to record data and give commanders a better observation of the battlespace. It has no weapons. The class is 3 weeks long I believe.

The MQ-1 is different because it has 2 hellfire missles on it. It's only used when there is absolute certainty from a commander. It is weird to me that this has been the biggest airborne killer of civillians. If that's what you were implying by your statement.

So, I am wondering if you have any data on this killing civillians.
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I'm not sure about the casualty numbers by drones but could find out. The reason why there are so many innocent casualties is because there is a lot of poor intelligence from the ground, civilians are often confused with insurgents.

Not too long ago special forces where going through a mountain path that went through a village and were ambushed by insurgents. Now they knew people of this village and knew that they were mostly 'friendly' but for some reason the young men went out and got their rifles and entered the fray against 'western forces'. Once the insurgents were fought off the villagers were asked why they had turned on them during the incident. The men who were not in favor of the Taliban said...and I kid you not...that they were bored as not much happens in their village and that even though they dislike the Taliban they couldn't very well fight on the side of the foreigner. With incidents like that happening you can see why its difficult to know exactly who an insurgent actually is.

Generally civilian deaths are mostly caused by pro-government forces (which are us).
 
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