Anyone else find Crop circles beautiful?

[SkinWalker]

And you, good man, have helped temper my impatience with those far more credulous than you.

I think JDawg is not so much replying/debating you, personally, as he is the position of those that find significance in crop circles that go beyond curiosity and into the realm of the paranormal.

 

[moementum7]

Roger that.

 

[Balerion]

compare the importance of knowing the 1000th scenario when the outcome carries significant importance, one of life, and one of discoveriing truth.

I appreciate your thirst for empirical evidence, but man, we already have it. You're not going to prove that every crop circle was man made. You can't do it. Like you said, 999 is just an arbitrary number, not the actual number. There are potentially thousands upon thousands of crop circles, and by nature, they don't last any longer than the harvest.

What, exactly, are you reserving your judgement for, then? If you dont' think UFOs did it, what do you think caused them?

Again, I absoultely agree that it is "probable".
And I understand how practicality and common sense are neccessary to function in everyday life.
I know that it's possible I could get into a car accident if I leave my house, but it's not going to prevent me from ever leaving my house.
Why, because I have gone out the last 999 times and have not had an accident, so I can assume I'm not going to have one today.
However, it is not a fact.

I'm sorry, but your analogy is not correct. You are comparing the statistical probability of a car accident to the probability of something other than man (I thought you were saying the other alternative was that UFOs created them). It doesn't work. They aren't alike.

Wrong, to me, these crop circles are just that....crop circles.
No more, no less.
Some one tells me they are all made by man with ropes and boards....prove it.
Someone tells me they are made from aliens....prove it.
Until then, they are just crop circles, some of them proven to be made by man, and the "possibility" that they were all made by man,....but not fact.

Again, I totally appreciate your stance, but you're kind of painting yourself into a corner here, bro. With an attitude like that, you're never going to have a theory on anything. You'll never accept anything. You cannot physically prove that every single crop circle was created by man, because they tend to disappear when the season is over...that's how nature works...they go away. So you will never, in fact, have an opinion on them. You are permanently reserving your judgement...do you realize that?

But let's face it, dude...they were all created by people. Unless there is some natural phenominon that does it, which I doubt, you're not going to find another source for these things. You have proof that they were made by man, and no proof (or even a shred of evidence) that they've been created by something else.

Seriously, you have the right idea, but you're a little extreme with it.

JD

 

[moementum7]

I can accept most of that.
They are all man made is probably the best hypothesis, but is not a matter of fact, and according to you, which I agree, can never be fully proven.

****What, exactly, are you reserving your judgement for, then? If you dont' think UFOs did it, what do you think caused them? ****

I don't know.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[glenn239]

the lack of convictions" is also due to the fact that in the UK, we don't have strict laws on Defending our homes and properties like I believe say somewhere like Texas.

I don't know if there is a lack of convictions. I don't care enough about crop circles to find out. Next, I'm under the impression that crop circles are a world wide sort of thing going on since the 1980's or something - not just a UK event. There should have been someone, somewhere caught, arrested and convicted of a minor misdemeanor. (If not caught in the field, then caught when they bragged about it to the wrong person days later). So, what's the history of criminal convictions for these things?

 

[Novacane]

Anyone who believes super-advanced aliens from another planet who came from another solar system hundreds or even thousands of light years from earth to just 'stomp' a few exotic looking circles in a farmer's corn field and then head back to their home planet is..........Duuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh??? Let's get serious here folks.

 

[glenn239]

Anyone who believes super-advanced aliens from another planet who came from another solar system hundreds or even thousands of light years from earth to just 'stomp' a few exotic looking circles in a farmer's corn field and then head back to their home planet is..........Duuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh??? Let's get serious here folks.

No doubt. But it’s also true that when kids trespass and destroy private property, that when they are caught they will probably be charged with a criminal offense. Do not underestimate just how seriously farmers view this type of thing. They shoot vermin and birds that eat their crops. Some clowns running around destroying vast swaths would really tick them off. And given the length of time these crop things have been being reported, there’s been plenty of plenty of opportunities for someone to get caught and convicted of this crime. In a small town, I would imagine that these circles make quite the story, and the perpetrators (probably locals) will not all have been rocket scientists – some will have shot their mouths off and got caught (which is a standard method by which criminals are tagged for their crimes, BTW).

So now, to be “scientific” about it, to put this entire ridiculous phenomenon to bed, all the “no” camp has to do is come up with a list – even if only 5 or 10 people in the entire world in the past 30 years – that have been charged and convicted of this crime (trespassing and destruction of private property). The only conceivable problem for the ‘no’ camp (and I wouldn’t think this to be the case) would be if no one anywhere has ever been convicted of making a crop circle.

 

[SkinWalker]

There are probably many arrests or charges of vandalism and criminal mischief, but they go unnoticed because sensationalism is what sells to significance-junkies and mystery-mongers. Restitution paid by a circle-maker/vandal to a farmer just wouldn't be significant enough for the news to carry more than a quick by-line. But the mystery of a crop circle is easy enough to sell and get attention, particularly since it lends itself well to photographs.

Still, here's a story that ran just a few weeks ago. I've seen others over the years, but I knew where to look for this one since it was so recent.

Four teens in Sandy Township near Akron, Ohio confessed to creating a circle and will probably have to make restitution to the farmer.

t apparently wasn't hard to do, as they went to the field at 2 a.m. Saturday and were done in 45 minutes [...] all four likely would be charged with a minor misdemeanor such as criminal damaging.

Apparently there were UFO nutters on hand to "investigate" who refused to believe the confessions and commented that they still thought the circle was "real." Of course it was real. It was really created by 4 teens. For the UFO nutter, it was more believable that space aliens created a circle in a crop of soybeans and 4 innocent teenagers would accept criminal charges and fines to suppress this knowledge.

But being caught would be a rare occurrence anyway -or so I would think. Most farmers don't live near their wheat and barley (or soybean) fields and these fields are necessarily large. The advantage is with the vandal who is creating the crop circle because he chooses the time and place. Even if the field were a 100 meters from the farmer's house, there's a good chance that an hour in a field at 2:00 am in the morning wouldn't even wake the dog. But the vandals choose fields out of the way or obscured by hills (which also provide an overlook to their creation).

I would expect very few arrests. Indeed, if the rate of graffiti vandals versus arrests in a crowded city full of witnesses is the standard, I'd say there are lot of arrests even if the above story only occurs once per year. Crop circles are necessarily done in stealth and and the vandals need only exploit the credulous nature of those that believe in alternative hypotheses to the rational to divert suspicion.

Source:

Biliczky, Carol (7/25/2006). Four teens confess to crop circle: geometric design in soybean field creates buzz south of Stark County. The Akron Beacon Journal.

 

[glenn239]

But being caught would be a rare occurrence anyway -or so I would think. Most farmers don't live near their wheat and barley (or soybean) fields and these fields are necessarily large. The advantage is with the vandal who is creating the crop circle because he chooses the time and place. Even if the field were a 100 meters from the farmer's house, there's a good chance that an hour in a field at 2:00 am in the morning wouldn't even wake the dog. But the vandals choose fields out of the way or obscured by hills (which also provide an overlook to their creation).

I don't think rarity matters, just so long as there are some convictions somewhere (preferably for the nice circles, not just the crappy ones).

 

[SkinWalker]

None of it "matters." I'm just pointing out that there's no reason to expect any high numbers of convictions or fines for the crimes. I would liken it to driving on an expired inspection sticker (for our non-U.S. friends: annual auto safety inspections are a requirement for many states in the U.S.). There's no reason to expect to be "caught" unless its incidental. There are no "inspection sticker squads" in the police department; police don't typically patrol neighborhoods and parking lots looking for expired inspection stickers. Yet, if I walk up to a police officer and confess or if I'm caught for speeding and he incidentally notices my sticker, I may get a ticket.

Crop circles are created by their makers under cover of darkness, when most people are long asleep; they choose areas that are underpopulated during the night but will likely be seen during the day by passers by. The makers have the advantage of being in a field of natural cover and concealment. They have the advantage of reconnoitering the area and have little reason to think that they'll be incidentally caught.

There's no reason to expect arrests, fines, or convictions.

In addition, there seem to be more tolerant farmers than intolerant in the U.K., where most of the circles are made.

The more we discuss this, the more apparent that it is *only* people who make circles. I suppose, however, that this wouldn't seem so readily apparent to the more credulous among us. The significance-junkies and mystery-mongers will always prefer to disregard the evidence in favor of speculation.

 

[Carcano]

Its worth repeating...where are the mistakes.

Assuming for a moment that ALL crop circles are man made, and that many are extremely complex and difficult to create in the dark, it stands to reason that there would be more imperfect ones than perfect.

So...where are all the pics of botched circles?

 

[Novacane]

Its worth repeating...where are the mistakes.

Assuming for a moment that ALL crop circles are man made, and that many are extremely complex and difficult to create in the dark, it stands to reason that there would be more imperfect ones than perfect.

So...where are all the pics of botched circles?

Who says all crop circles are created in the dark? I imagine some have been created when it is light too. Because crop cirles are usually round, a circle is probably more easily made than a square. What's a botched crop circle look like? Who knows and who cares. It's just a form of art anyway.

 

[SkinWalker]

They're out there. They just don't get as noticed.

Before

After

Here's one where you can make out the template lines arcing where the a bloke holding a string from a central point walked.
http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/1996/uk1996cx.jpg

Here's one of the worst for symmetry & design - also, it's easy to tell which side of the field they parked on.

Clearly an unfinished work
http://www.korncirkler.dk/02cc/02.4a.jpg

Making of a crop circle

Making a crop circle

We've pieced together the techniques used by the world's leading crop circle makers.

1. The makers select a field. They often use dowsing rods to check earth energies. Ideally they should ask the owner for permission. Often they don't and they trespass on property.
2. The makers draw a crop circle on paper or design it on a computer.
3. The circle makers get together vital equipment and a team of three people. They usually wait until dusk or darkness.
4. The circle makers identify the centre of the circle. They take a length of tape and create the main circle. One person holds the end of the tape. The second person holds the other end and walks around, creating a human compass. The third person follows behind, stomping on the ground.
5. Having completed the main circle, they make an inner circle using slightly less tape.
6. On the inner circle, they make a series of marks.
7. Once complete, they mark out two equal points along the diameter of the inner circle. Then they stomp straight lines from these to each of the marker points.

 

[SkinWalker]

Back on the topic of arrests: Police make first arrest over crop circles

Hungarian students fined admitted to circle-making.

 

[Balerion]

I think what's been missed here is the topic of the thread: The true beauty of these things. Yeah, it's vandalism, and potentially harmful to the crop, but man, if some of those aren't the most beautiful pieces of art I've seen in my life. Just the sheer scope of these things is enough to make your mind reel, and to top it off with some amazing designs...wow.

These are a testament to Man's ability. Something like this--the creation of an art that they won't get to see as a whole--is a truly amazing, and sort of scary, feature to the human brain. This archetype within us is the basis for random acts of unrewarded good deeds, and also acts of unmitigated evil. Great lies that have no resolution, and great truths told that have no benefit to the teller. It's truly amazing that humans have that in them.

This is us, man, and we really need to start appreciating the fact that we are capable of such things, rather than crediting aliens or gods for our feats. We continually underestimate ourselves, and crop circles are a big proof of our greatness.

JD

 

[riku_124]

even if it is just poeple, they have a beautiful desighn when they make them

 

[Carcano]

I don't know what you are pointing out with the first two pics, but this one is a good example of a botched job, because you can see how the circles are not perfectly round...at least thats the way it looks from the skewed angle.

This is expected with a man made circle, because it is very difficult to maintain a steady tension on a tape tracing around a large circle (its going to waver a bit), and even then, many of the curved lines are not even circular, but nevertheless follow a non-random pattern.

And still more difficult to flatten the plants in a perfect outline relative to the rope/tape...esp in the dark when you can't even see what your doing.

 

[Novacane]

I don't know what you are pointing out with the first two pics, but this one is a good example of a botched job, because you can see how the circles are not perfectly round...at least thats the way it looks from the skewed angle.

This is expected with a man made circle, because it is very difficult to maintain a steady tension on a tape tracing around a large circle (its going to waver a bit), and even then, many of the curved lines are not even circular, but nevertheless follow a non-random pattern.

And still more difficult to flatten the plants in a perfect outline relative to the rope/tape...esp in the dark when you can't even see what your doing.

Whose to say it's a so-called 'botched' crop circle. Maybe the artist intended it to be this way. Speaking of aliens, what does a so-called 'alien' crop circle look like anyway? Anyone seen one lately? Catching aliens making crop circles on tape would be a good starter for convincing the skeptics. Just out of curiosity, where do they park their spaceship during their crop circle making escapades? Science wants to know.