Any information on UFO’s !!

[Read-Only]

Has it never once struck you alien/extra-dimensional beings/etc. folks just how many times you use the word BELIEVE and how very, very rarely you ever get to use the word PROOF? That alone should tell you something!

The real truth is that you simply WANT your beliefs to be true - and as a result fall for every bit of flimsily "evidence" that you can possibly find. Grainy videos, blurred photos, word of mouth, etc., etc., etc.

I would truly hate to think of any of you serving on a jury - you'd be quick to convict an innocent party in your lackadaisical, illogical way of accepting "evidence!!!!!!!":bugeye:

Seriously - it's you people and those like you that keep all the con men and snake oil salesmen in business making BIG money!

 

[fedr808]

amen.

And oil salesmen are trying to feed their fimilies that is just assinine read.

 

[electrafixtion]

Beleive what you like, I give the subject exactly the respect it deserves. The association with this subject of the gullible, the insane, the dishonest, the self-deceived, the prankster, the attention seeker, the ill-informed,have so utterly muddied the waters as to render a proper scientific study almost impossible. Individuals and groups who, whatever there motivation, argue for the reality of UFOs as alien vehicles (or time travellers, or craft of a hidden Earth civilisation) have made the subject so unrespectable by there pseudoscientific approach that they have inhibited the proper study of these phenomena.

There is almost no subject matter considerable that you could not apply the above cynicism to. This is utterly biased nonsense and nothing more. There are MANY highly credible resources and individuals that have made and are still making, rational, unbiased and highly probable hypothesis for the reality of this phenomenon.

That is a crime against science, against the acquisition of knowledge and against humanity. I utterly condemn their irresponsible behaviour.

Don't make me laugh. You sound like some vindictive has been which I know you are not. Dammit Ophiolite, you're better than this. I KNOW you are brilliant with respect for your level of knowledge and intelligence. I KNOW you are accomplished. Many times more so than myself. If you can't rise above this ridiculous comic book like caricature of "the madly frustrated & angry scientist", there is little hope of you constructively contributing to this subject matter.

Please provide me with citations to peer reviewed papers by established scientists that demonstrate this.

I have provided you with a list of credible scientists and experts already. I am more so interested in you being the acting peer here. Remember: If you openly refute the subject matter, it's up to YOU to theoretically demonstrate that refute. A bunch of words don't mean a thing. SHOW US PROOF of all this "credible evidence" in opposition.

Then you don't know diddely-shit. I was presdisposed to believe in almost anything. Here is a list of some of the things I used to believe in:

Is it always necessary for you to be childishly rude and condescending in your all too predictable responsive fashion? You'd do well to drop that arrogant "I know it all" tone and attitude.

• Poltergeist
• Telekinesis
• ESP
• Clairvoyance
• Astral projection
• The prophecies of Edgar Cayce
• The hypotheses of Velikovsky
• The Loch Ness monster
• UFOs
• Ghosts
• The Bermuda Triangle

So you are mistaken. I had a predisposition to reject mundane explanations. An automatic reaction against the simple explanation and a strong bias towards accepting the bizarre, while cherry picking the evidence to support the resultant beliefs.

I want to know exactly what happened to you! What was here name?

I have vastly more evidence supporting my current views. (And that is quite setting aside the observation that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

OK, lets see it. Extraordinary or not.

 

[electrafixtion]

Has it never once struck you alien/extra-dimensional beings/etc. folks just how many times you use the word BELIEVE and how very, very rarely you ever get to use the word PROOF? That alone should tell you something!

The real truth is that you simply WANT your beliefs to be true - and as a result fall for every bit of flimsily "evidence" that you can possibly find. Grainy videos, blurred photos, word of mouth, etc., etc., etc.

I would truly hate to think of any of you serving on a jury - you'd be quick to convict an innocent party in your lackadaisical, illogical way of accepting "evidence!!!!!!!":bugeye:

Seriously - it's you people and those like you that keep all the con men and snake oil salesmen in business making BIG money!

It is unequivocally impossible to KNOW ANYTHING without first believing it possible. There is no philosophy or knowledge that one can possess without first believing it. Belief is like the (a) is to the (b) of knowledge. You cannot have one without the other in that specific order. Proof is an extraneous consideration for that which is knowledge. Proof is NOT an absolute as has been proved via the test of time many times over. It's completely open to revision.

 

[Oli]

It is unequivocally impossible to KNOW ANYTHING without first believing it possible.

Rubbish - a lot of school science experiments DEMONSTRATE something before it is talked about.
Therefore the belief comes AFTER the knowledge.

 

[jessiej920]

Such studies have been conducted. The 'abduction victims' generally do not wish to accept the results.

This I find hard to believe. I think many people who have experienced such phenomena would be relieved to find out that it was something rooted in the human psyche that could, in fact, be fixable, rather then accept the idea that they are really being abducted. I'm not saying studies haven't been done, but I mean fair studies. There is already so much negativity and disbelief attached to the idea that I think you would be hard pressed to find someone that conducted an unbiased study and, to be fair, a study conducted by someone who believed it possible that wasn't just seeing what they wanted to see.

The truth is, is that something is happening. It doesn't have to mean aliens or otherworldly beings though. Unfortunately, any scientist who wishes to delve deeper into the phenomena loses all credibility the moment he/she opens his/her mouth and utters the word 'UFO' or 'alien'. Even the studies that are conducted are met with ridicule and disbelief. How is it possible, then, to conduct an unbiased study when you are coming from the belief that it's all utter nonsense or from the belief that it is not? And even if you do conduct a study that produces results that something otherworldly might be occuring, you are met with scorn and dismissed as a bad job and after that no 'real' scientist even wants to touch the subject for fear that they will be shunned as well.

All I'm saying, is that from the enormity and variety of people that have endured such experiences, all sharing startlingly similar characteristics, spanning throughout the ages, I think it is rather hard to say that they are all lying. Certainly they believe something traumatic has happened to them and for science to turn its back on them, I think, is quite wrong. Either way it is still a possible cultural phenomena that is occuring, but is still not recognized because of the stigma that follows it.

 

[electrafixtion]

Rubbish - a lot of school science experiments DEMONSTRATE something before it is talked about.
Therefore the belief comes AFTER the knowledge.

Without belief there is no understanding. Without belief you wouldn't be in school to begin with. Without belief you would not know what it is to be introduced to a new idea. No Oli, it's not rubbish. It's just more than you can comprehend or are familiar with. It's basic cognitive mechanics.

Look up the word "belief" or "believe" and tell us what the dictionary states.

All knowledge is belief. Otherwise, new proofs that dispel previously held BELIEFS would never take place.

 

[electrafixtion]

This I find hard to believe. I think many people who have experienced such phenomena would be relieved to find out that it was something rooted in the human psyche that could, in fact, be fixable, rather then accept the idea that they are really being abducted. I'm not saying studies haven't been done, but I mean fair studies. There is already so much negativity and disbelief attached to the idea that I think you would be hard pressed to find someone that conducted an unbiased study and, to be fair, a study conducted by someone who believed it possible that wasn't just seeing what they wanted to see.

The truth is, is that something is happening. It doesn't have to mean aliens or otherworldly beings though. Unfortunately, any scientist who wishes to delve deeper into the phenomena loses all credibility the moment he/she opens his/her mouth and utters the word 'UFO' or 'alien'. Even the studies that are conducted are met with ridicule and disbelief. How is it possible, then, to conduct an unbiased study when you are coming from the belief that it's all utter nonsense or from the belief that it is not? And even if you do conduct a study that produces results that something otherworldly might be occuring, you are met with scorn and dismissed as a bad job and after that no 'real' scientist even wants to touch the subject for fear that they will be shunned as well.

All I'm saying, is that from the enormity and variety of people that have endured such experiences, all sharing startlingly similar characteristics, spanning throughout the ages, I think it is rather hard to say that they are all lying. Certainly they believe something traumatic has happened to them and for science to turn its back on them, I think, is quite wrong. Either way it is still a possible cultural phenomena that is occuring, but is still not recognized because of the stigma that follows it.

Have you read John Mack's work on the abduction scenario? He was a Pulitzer Prize winning Harvard Professor that had conducted many tests to the ends that the abduction experience is very real and is NOT the product mental illness or dysfunction. He was killed in 2004 via a drunk driver.

 

[leopold]

The real truth is that you simply WANT your beliefs to be true - and as a result fall for every bit of flimsily "evidence" that you can possibly find. Grainy videos, blurred photos, word of mouth, etc., etc., etc.

i wouldn't be too quick to judge.
i've seen aircraft controller radar video of an object that to this day i cannot explain.
the only 2 things i can say for sure about what i saw are:
1. it was under intelligent control.
2. it wasn't any aircraft that i'm familiar with.

before you say anything about CIA and military secrets this "thing" defied the laws of physics by the way it moved.

have any opinions on this read only?

 

[joepistole]

They do exist. What they are is another matter. It is an interesting topic and I suspect there is no one answer to the issue of UFOs. Part of it is psychological and part of it just might be extraterrestrial visitors...not sure. But there are certianly a lot of anomalies in need of an answer.

 

[Read-Only]

This I find hard to believe. I think many people who have experienced such phenomena would be relieved to find out that it was something rooted in the human psyche that could, in fact, be fixable, rather then accept the idea that they are really being abducted. I'm not saying studies haven't been done, but I mean fair studies. There is already so much negativity and disbelief attached to the idea that I think you would be hard pressed to find someone that conducted an unbiased study and, to be fair, a study conducted by someone who believed it possible that wasn't just seeing what they wanted to see.

The truth is, is that something is happening. It doesn't have to mean aliens or otherworldly beings though. Unfortunately, any scientist who wishes to delve deeper into the phenomena loses all credibility the moment he/she opens his/her mouth and utters the word 'UFO' or 'alien'. Even the studies that are conducted are met with ridicule and disbelief. How is it possible, then, to conduct an unbiased study when you are coming from the belief that it's all utter nonsense or from the belief that it is not? And even if you do conduct a study that produces results that something otherworldly might be occuring, you are met with scorn and dismissed as a bad job and after that no 'real' scientist even wants to touch the subject for fear that they will be shunned as well.

All I'm saying, is that from the enormity and variety of people that have endured such experiences, all sharing startlingly similar characteristics, spanning throughout the ages, I think it is rather hard to say that they are all lying. Certainly they believe something traumatic has happened to them and for science to turn its back on them, I think, is quite wrong. Either way it is still a possible cultural phenomena that is occuring, but is still not recognized because of the stigma that follows it.

Sorry to have to tell you this, Joe, but there are probably an equal number of people who also believe in demon posession. Should we pour a ton of money into studying that also? There have been actual studies done - with the result being that most of the people claiming to be posessed were, in fact, mentally ill.

 

[Read-Only]

i wouldn't be too quick to judge.
i've seen aircraft controller radar video of an object that to this day i cannot explain.
the only 2 things i can say for sure about what i saw are:
1. it was under intelligent control.
2. it wasn't any aircraft that i'm familiar with.

before you say anything about CIA and military secrets this "thing" defied the laws of physics by the way it moved.

have any opinions on this read only?

Sure, I have some opinions - but you probably don't want to hear them.

 

[leopold]

Sure, I have some opinions - but you probably don't want to hear them.

sure i do or i wouldn't have asked.

 

[electrafixtion]

They do exist. What they are is another matter. It is an interesting topic and I suspect there is no one answer to the issue of UFOs. Part of it is psychological and part of it just might be extraterrestrial visitors...not sure. But there are certianly a lot of anomalies in need of an answer.

The emboldened above is my exact view on the matter.

 

[joepistole]

There are too many things like Rendlesham Forrest incident that just do not have a good explanation. If the military folks guarding our nuclear weapons are chasing non existent lights in the forrest, I'd say that was a national security issue. If they were chasing real UFO's I'd say that was a national security issue. But to simply say that there is no national secuity issue as the government did, just defies reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendlesham_Forest_Incident

That said, are there a lot of whackos in this area, absoutely. But I am not yet willing to close the door to all other possibilities.

 

[Ophiolite]

This I find hard to believe.

Your incredulity has nothing whatsoever to do with good science. It is intimately connected with pseudoscience, however.

I think many people who have experienced such phenomena would be relieved to find out that it was something rooted in the human psyche that could, in fact, be fixable, rather then accept the idea that they are really being abducted. .

And that is a typical attitude of one who indulges in pseudoscience. You prefer to stick with what you believe than with what careful studies reveal. You prejudge the conclusions without even looking at the data.

There is already so much negativity and disbelief attached to the idea that I think you would be hard pressed to find someone that conducted an unbiased study and, to be fair, a study conducted by someone who believed it possible that wasn't just seeing what they wanted to see.

I do not mean this in the way you may initially perceive it, but your statement is ignorant. It tells me you have little or no knowledge of the methodology of science, or the way scientists work.

The truth is, is that something is happening. It doesn't have to mean aliens or otherworldly beings though. Unfortunately, any scientist who wishes to delve deeper into the phenomena loses all credibility the moment he/she opens his/her mouth and utters the word 'UFO' or 'alien'. Even the studies that are conducted are met with ridicule and disbelief.

Very well. Tell me about two studies that have been made on the subject of abduction, by scientists, that have been met by ridicule and disbelief.
I await your pleasure.

 

[jessiej920]

Have you read John Mack's work on the abduction scenario? He was a Pulitzer Prize winning Harvard Professor that had conducted many tests to the ends that the abduction experience is very real and is NOT the product mental illness or dysfunction. He was killed in 2004 via a drunk driver.

No I haven't, but I will have to check him out. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[jessiej920]

Sorry to have to tell you this, Joe, but there are probably an equal number of people who also believe in demon posession. Should we pour a ton of money into studying that also? There have been actual studies done - with the result being that most of the people claiming to be posessed were, in fact, mentally ill.

First off, who is Joe? Secondly, no, I do not PROBABLY think that are an equal number of people who believe in demon possession. Statistics have shown that the numbers of people who believe in the demonic and/or possession by said force are steadily declining, and the belief in such has shown that it falls with people who are usually less educated or very religious. On the contrary, the percent of the poplulation that believes in aliens, UFO's, abductions etc. are actually higher then ever and they are people who are of average to above-average intelligence. Another difference that can be noted is that Gallup polls have shown that people who are religious or believe in demonic possession tend to DISBELIEVE in aliens or UFO's. There is quite a notable distinction between religious beliefs in the paranormal and non-religious beliefs in the paranormal. Demonic possession and UFO phenomena are not related in any sort of way.

In fact, many people who have reported abduction experiences HAVE gone under rigorous mental testing and many have been found to be quite sane and sound, the exception being that they believe something very scary and traumatic has happened to them that they cannot explain. Gallup polls have also shown that religious paranormal believers tend to fall to the less educated, while non-religious paranormal believers show no notable difference between those who believe in nothing. If the abduction or UFO phenomena, in itself, is some kind of psychosomatic manifestation, it is still one that is not yet recognized by the scientific community...it's just completely dismissed, which I think is wrong.

 

[Diode-Man]

There's zilch, nada, zero convincing evidence that alien spaceships have ever visited Earth.

Thats because they choose only to visit people who either:

(A) Smoke :m: or (B) Own a Ranch

 

[jessiej920]

Your incredulity has nothing whatsoever to do with good science. It is intimately connected with pseudoscience, however.
And that is a typical attitude of one who indulges in pseudoscience. You prefer to stick with what you believe than with what careful studies reveal. You prejudge the conclusions without even looking at the data.
I do not mean this in the way you may initially perceive it, but your statement is ignorant. It tells me you have little or no knowledge of the methodology of science, or the way scientists work.
Very well. Tell me about two studies that have been made on the subject of abduction, by scientists, that have been met by ridicule and disbelief.
I await your pleasure.

Hmmm...I sense hostility for no apparent reason. You have no idea what I believe, but thanks for jumping to judgemental conclusions, that's always a clear-cut sign of someone who is intelligent and not ignorant . Firstly, I never said my incredulity had anything to do with good science...notice how I said "I find it hard to believe"...that's called an opinion. Secondly, my speculating on a topic for the sake of conversation is not what I would call indulgence, they are just ideas that I never once said were a) right, b) concrete, or c) backed by mountains of scientific evidence that I apparently have no understanding of. Thirdly, why don't you name two careful, fair, unbiased studies that have been done that display your wonderful knowledge of GOOD science that HAVEN'T been ridiculed...your obvious skepticism of my speculation tells me that the topic in itself is one that is always met with disdain.