Fair is fair.
Any atheists here who were once believers?
- Thread starter wegs
- Start date
Are you saying that "un-conversions" are impossible, given the power of the god you believe in?
If so, how does the reality that it happens enable you to still believe in the power of that god?
Or would you perhaps simply ignore such evidence, and claim it is "god working in mysterious ways?" for example?
And how would you seeking the truth save all former Christians from damnation?
It is also not the case that they are "compelled to join the atheists" but rather that they are no longer compelled to stay with the Christians.
If you are trying to slay something that no one else sees, or is affected by, and you are swinging that sword close to them, you would come across as a mad man wielding a dangerous weapon. What would you do if you saw such a thing?
So sayeth the man who wishes to slay the serpent?
I don't know what St. George slayed, but it is an enduring legend. Ask wegs why she left her church. It's her thread, but I just wish she was still the Christian I thought she was when I first came here. I can't believe what has happened, it is Robittybob who is slain at the moment. How did wegs change so quickly?
George And The Dragon(2004)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cwwupH9rlQ
Comical?
It wasn't 'quick,' at all. I've been moving away from Christianity, and my beliefs for the past few years.
I just never really took a solid ''position,'' and now I have...and it feels 'right' to me.
Not until I left religion, did I finally feel...'enlightened.' Go figure.
Hey Sarkus :wave:
I just never really took a solid ''position,'' and now I have...and it feels 'right' to me.
Not until I left religion, did I finally feel...'enlightened.' Go figure.
Hey Sarkus :wave:
Because that's where it's usually discussed.
Agreed I was just correcting mazulus error.
Would that it be true, that is. And what about non-believers from birth.
That's where you err, they are not compelled to join anyone, When sense is seen, it brings with it clarity of thought. atheists are not a group per se, they are simply people of a like mind, in one solitary aspect. They lack belief in the god/gods the religious claim exist.
That unfortunately is incorrect, you're devoting your life to the pursuit of your subjective truth. It can only be truth if it has a factual basis.
I say go ahead and knock yourself out. And whilst your doing that, they will think for you.
Would not call it gallant, more like positively insulting, you feel they are so damned, I.E. the s**t on your shoe that you want to feel righteous.
On that we both agree, religion has caused death for the most inane of reasons and in the most callous of ways.
What's even stranger is your consistent refusal to accept that ''evolution'' is meant differently to the neo/darwinian use of the word, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.
jan.
There are a number of us here who were brought up as Christians and are now atheist. While this thread was started by wegs, and she explained the transition that she is going through with regard her position on faith, she is not unique in going through such a process, as people shake off what they see as years of indoctrination, of uncritical thought, and embrace the new horizon of thinking for themselves. It may be that she returns to the place she left, but if she does it will be on her own terms, and with a fuller understanding of what the place is.
And I am sure it did not happen "quickly", even if there may appear to have been a tipping point in attitude.
My advice to you, though, is to try not to appear to be a mad man waving around a sharp sword. Intentions are one thing, but the manner in which they're carried out is also important, and that often relies on understanding that people may not see the"dragon" that you do. And they will judge not on what you appear to yourself but on what you appear to them.
I quite like you Geeser. You are not that bad afterall. I just feel ashamed that Christ died for nothing.
Well said, Sarkus.
Just a general comment:
There is an underlying current that pervades Christianity in a general sense, and I used to feel this way too, when I was following it. And it’s that Christians are on one side of the field and everyone else is on another, and you’re opponents. Christians feeling this incessant need to bring everyone to ‘their side.’ While the intentions might be well meaning, it’s a poor way to view the world…everyday waking up out of bed to ‘take on the world.’ It will only breed animosity, not harmony….and that is a problem I always found in Christianity. (in a general sense, certainly not everyone acts like this who is Christian)
There is an underlying current that pervades Christianity in a general sense, and I used to feel this way too, when I was following it. And it’s that Christians are on one side of the field and everyone else is on another, and you’re opponents. Christians feeling this incessant need to bring everyone to ‘their side.’ While the intentions might be well meaning, it’s a poor way to view the world…everyday waking up out of bed to ‘take on the world.’ It will only breed animosity, not harmony….and that is a problem I always found in Christianity. (in a general sense, certainly not everyone acts like this who is Christian)
I have no idea how I appear. I would like to put the sword away, but I have the feeling Balerion will return snapping at my heels like a blood-thirsty hyena. What does a man do faced with that? Run away or stand and fight.
Seattle,
No. Atheism is a lack of belief in God, period. ''Insufficient evidence'' is your reason, and it is this addition to atheism that presupposes you have a belief system.
Why do you think there is insufficient evidence?
What do you regard as sufficient evidence?
In your mind you have answered these questions and come to your conclusion. So how have you satisfactorily answered these question? Did you come to the conclusion yourself, in a flash, or have you been doing some kind of research? Are there others who think like you, and do they form alliances, and organisations, boycott, try to change society?? Do they make manifesto's, are they united in their approach to this world order?
Well sure, if God for you, is what people say God is, then your quite right, but that's not what I (me) am talking about. So to tar me with the same brush kind of shows your insincerety.
The problem is what is regarded as ''sufficient evidence''?
Can you answer that?
jan.
No. Atheism is a lack of belief in God, period. ''Insufficient evidence'' is your reason, and it is this addition to atheism that presupposes you have a belief system.
Why do you think there is insufficient evidence?
What do you regard as sufficient evidence?
In your mind you have answered these questions and come to your conclusion. So how have you satisfactorily answered these question? Did you come to the conclusion yourself, in a flash, or have you been doing some kind of research? Are there others who think like you, and do they form alliances, and organisations, boycott, try to change society?? Do they make manifesto's, are they united in their approach to this world order?
Well sure, if God for you, is what people say God is, then your quite right, but that's not what I (me) am talking about. So to tar me with the same brush kind of shows your insincerety.
The problem is what is regarded as ''sufficient evidence''?
Can you answer that?
jan.
I believe a man probably named jesus may have existed, an itinerant rabbi who when around preaching. However there is no evidence for such a person, and most definitely none for the jesus portrayed in the bible. So on that you can be assured he never died for anybody. Oh and that statement, that jesus died for X, has much deep biblical meaning or lack there of, when you try to find out what it is he supposedly died for.
There were many such preachers at the time some even called themselves the messiah, yet the is no contemporaneous evidence about a jesus person, yet I willing to accept that he may of existed.
That's really not my sole reason, Jan. But since you're asking, sufficient evidence isn't hearsay of others, passed down over the centuries. The Bible isn't factual evidence, it's a collection of stories (based on hearsay) that one can choose to believe or not. I choose not to believe it, for I don't think it's truthful. I think it has some moral merit to it, but that's about it. If God exists, I don't need a religion to inform me of how I should view him, or see him. That's just my take on it.
And that's not exclusive to the bible. All faiths and belief systems are based on believing something you can't verify or have proof of. Even if someone feels a powerful emotion or a great sense of joy from serving who he or she believes God to be, that doesn't mean I need to follow it. Someone else's opinion of God, isn't evidence to me of his existence. That's all, really.
It's a personal choice and I respect everyone's right to live as they wish.
Possibly the fact that you're full of yourself and wont shut up, as evidenced by the "life of Mercury" thread on physforum, is why people take a disliking to you.
You also went to a boat forum asking for spiritual guidance and professed you wouldn't shut up until you saw fit -like you were doing a service to everyone there.
"Insufficient evidence" as Jan was saying. Look, I thought we were on the verge of a breakthrough. I am just so pissed off that wegs didn't tell me from Day 1 that she was an atheist, I would have gone elsewhere. I thought for a moment I had found someone gutsy enough to tackle the world. I really did you know.
Why didn't she tell me the truth?
Thank you very much for your encouragement, but I must disapoint you I'm afraid.What I'm displaying is not faith. A good, general example of what could be called faith can be seen by people like Martin Luther King jnr, or Madame Teresa, because kicks in when you act upon it.
Some points I make may seem ''dogmatic'', but I assure you they're not.
jan.
I can take shit from you Beer w/Straw for you have hated me from Day 1. You don't pretend, you just let me have it. I can take that no problem.
Because on day 1 she probably hadn't reached the tipping point of saying "yes, I'm an atheist."
But it also speaks volumes that you would have to wait to be told that someone is an atheist before realising such.
If nothing else this should help demonstrate that other than a single belief (or lack thereof) we are not necessarily dissimilar.
Am I right though?