Any atheists here who were once believers?

[wegs]

With Jan there will always be another question and never an answer

I don't know.

I meant to add to my response above that in my opinion, a state of peace has nothing to do with our outward circumstances, rather it is a choice we make daily to seek peace despite them.

 

[wegs]

Just an observation/question: why do some of you feel that you are an ''authority'' on how one should attain peace? No two people are alike, and what may be a suitable 'path' for one, might not be for another. (whether that path is religion/spirituality based or not)

 

[(Q)]

It is difficult to convince you that some people find great pleasure in spirituality and religion.

It is their reasons for finding great pleasure in spirituality and religion that are not convincing.

 

[(Q)]

I can run my fingers across a circuit board while it's on, and the circuit is aware of my added inductance because it's output on the oscilloscope changes.

There is also the bizarre possibility that electronic devices really are experiencing consciousness, even if they have no free will.

LOL. No, the circuit boards are not exhibiting awareness, they are exhibiting added inductance.

 

[(Q)]

So what is the magic formula for consciousness?

Evolution.

 

[(Q)]

Atheists want us to give up our God and give up our soul. I say, speak for yourself. If you don't have a soul, that's you. I have a soul. Other believers have a soul. Atheists claim that they don't, that they are philisophical zombies. I say: so be it.

Believers can't even explain what a soul is let alone attempt to show they have one. It's like saying your car has an alluvial damper.

 

[(Q)]

The one that brings you peace of mind. If science is right, and were all just monkeys in a universe that happened by accident, then we're all free to worship or not worship as we please. Personally, I think there is great benefit to finding a relationship with a Higher Power. I think there is great benefit to nourishing the spirit.

All that means is that you prefer to wallow in fantasy in order to escape reality, and that you really have no idea about religions.

 

[Jan Ardena]

I thought I did.

Your post was based on the assumption that I presumed peace can only be attained through worship of God.

Mazaula thought there great benefit can be derived by worshiping a higher power, seeing it as nourishing of the spirit. Then Balerion commented that we can get these benefits without such worship, to which you replied ''Simple yet so true?''
I am interested to know why you regard his statement as true. I'm not saying that it can't be done.

jan.

 

[(Q)]

I'm serious, I don't know what the Christian concept of God is.
AFAIC, God is God, and I understood ''God'' to be who the Christians believe in when they say they believe in ''God''.

jan.

So, what you're essentially admitting here is that you have no idea what any other religion says about their gods and that because you only know a little bit about Christianity, you make the assumption that all religions must view and describe their gods exactly the same way as Christians.

 

[(Q)]

''God'' and ''gods'' are two different categories, even if you don't want them to be.
There is, and can only be, One God.

jan.

No Jan, their are a great many gods purported to exist, not just yours. Of course, we understand you are compelled to state there is only on god, but that is exactly what all monotheists state about their gods, even if you don't want them to or actually know they do.

 

[(Q)]

God is beyond nature.
Super-nature is nature is defined as: (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature, not something that is beyond it's laws.

Yes, but that is something that can't even be asserted by anyone, by definition, yet you and other believers will make the assertion without any idea as to what you're asserting and where you would get such an idea. That's called dishonesty.

Sounds like common sense to me.

jan.

Of course it does, Jan, to anyone who is incapable of thinking it through.

 

[wegs]

/deleted

 

[Jan Ardena]

So, what you're essentially admitting here is that you have no idea what any other religion says about their gods and that because you only know a little bit about Christianity, you make the assumption that all religions must view and describe their gods exactly the same way as Christians.

Logically there can only be one ''God'' (note the upper-case 'g').
That you don't wish to accept this, even as a characteristic of a fictional character, is not going to change that.

jan.

 

[(Q)]

There are benefits. It takes the edge off of existential dread that this is the only life we have, and if it's a hard life, too bad. Beyond that, there is something inherently pleasureable about the idea that supernatural phenomenon might exist. It gives people hope (something that atheists can't stand)

Not true, atheists understand it is a false hope, a delusion, an escape from reality.

it gives people a reason to be on their best behavior (even when they don't want to be).

No, it is not a reason, it is a threat to be feared, which means the believer has not yet used reason and rational to understand the benefits to not behaving in ways detrimental to themselves and others, and will therefore easily rationalize such behavior when it suits their agenda.

Belief in a supernatural also causes the culture to grow into something beautiful, something to be proud of.

History has already shown that to be totally wrong in so many ways. Our current societies suffer as a result, plagued with problems as a result of indoctrinated beliefs.

I am sure the Egyptians are still very proud of the pyramids.

LOL. That is just silly.

The problem with atheist disbelief is that it is cold and hateful, disappointed and negative. Atheism gives those who suffer the middle finger, as if to say, "I'm better than you. Too bad you're life sucks!"

Hilarious, notice that the believer is compelled to fabricate hatred in order to defend his unfounded position.

At least religion promises things like an after-life, kingdom of God in heaven, reincarnation and another chance to experience life under better conditions.

In other words, it promises delusions, lies and fantasy.

In that sense, religion is compassionate.

Sorry, but that has nothing to do with compassion.

I'm not surprised that believers will kill atheists to protect themselves from such a dismal reality.

Yes, you have presented a very good reason as to why religions are so dangerous to mankind and societies. Well done.

 

[(Q)]

Logically there can only be one ''God'' (note the upper-case 'g').

Yes Jan, I understand you have no clue there are other religions besides yours and that you have no clue what their believers believe. Oddly enough, it is almost exactly what you believe, yet you still have no clue.

That you don't wish to accept this, even as a characteristic of a fictional character, is not going to change that.

jan.

Yes Jan, I understand you refuse to accept the fact there are other religions purporting the existence of their "one and only God" (note the upper-case 'g')

Astounding ignorance you display, Jan.

 

[wegs]

/deleted...

 

[(Q)]

Lol yeah...true, (Q)

Re: indoctrination, I don't disagree but what do you make of people who "convert" to a particular religion as adults?

Indoctrination does not mean one adheres to a particular religion, but that they adhere to accepting irrational beliefs without question, hence they will accept conversion to another religion if that's what they accept to do.

IOW, do you feel that the only way people adhere to a particular religion is through indoctrination?

Of course, without the acceptance of belief without question, one will not accept or adhere to any religion.

 

[wegs]

Of course, without the acceptance of belief without question, one will not accept or adhere to any religion.

Yep, you're right, I think.

 

[wegs]

Your post was based on the assumption that I presumed peace can only be attained through worship of God.

Mazaula thought there great benefit can be derived by worshiping a higher power, seeing it as nourishing of the spirit. Then Balerion commented that we can get these benefits without such worship, to which you replied ''Simple yet so true?''
I am interested to know why you regard his statement as true. I'm not saying that it can't be done.

jan.

At the end of the day, you think as you wish, and I think as I wish. Nothing changes. So, why bother discussing the topic with one another any further? So...carry on...

 

[wynn]

Just an observation/question: why do some of you feel that you are an ''authority'' on how one should attain peace?

You're reading into my posts something that isn't there.

Several posters here have proposed to know how to come to peace of mind - and to do so without religion. The religious path tends to be long and difficult. So when someone comes along and claims it's not necessary to take the religious path at all - then I'm all ears!

Of course, I expect that those who claim that one doesn't need religion, in fact have something better to offer than religions do, which is why I provide some religious points and expect that the non-religious will have better things to offer.

No two people are alike, and what may be a suitable 'path' for one, might not be for another. (whether that path is religion/spirituality based or not)

This is just your particular statement of faith. Your above statement can not be verified.