Animal Pain and humane treatment

[Spud Emperor]

How big Enmos?, about 5 or six inches. When I lived in Western Australia, the big ones were about a foot long. I'm not squeamish but they could give my nape a rise.

 

[Enmos]

Just while we're on the subject (which includes arachnids) and on the subject of me being subject to the misery of bugs in general. In climbing a wattle tree on the weekend to cut off an unwanted branch, I managed to collect 15 (yep, fifteen, I counted 'em) paralysis ticks around my waist and buttocks, and yes one of the little{foul Aussie expletive deleted} was burrowing its way into my scrotum.
It's a harsh life but rarely boring.

Ugh! I don't like ticks.

How big Enmos?, about 5 or six inches. When I lived in Western Australia, the big ones were about a foot long. I'm not squeamish but they could give my nape a rise.

Damn, that's big..
So, about this size then?

 

[Spud Emperor]

No I don't like ticks either, lost a good dog to one, almost lost a son, have had more painful, itchy and severe mood affecting encounters than I'd care to mention and, as for the centipedes, that is just the size of the West Australian ones.

 

[Enmos]

No I don't like ticks either, lost a good dog to one, almost lost a son, have had more painful, itchy and severe mood affecting encounters than I'd care to mention and, as for the centipedes, that is just the size of the West Australian ones.

I once contracted Lyme's disease from one. Well, the anti-biotics hopefully prevented it. Let's hope.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

No I don't like ticks either, lost a good dog to one, almost lost a son, have had more painful, itchy and severe mood affecting encounters than I'd care to mention and, as for the centipedes, that is just the size of the West Australian ones.

The Horseshoe crab is related to the tick.

Horrible looking bloody things. Up to two foot long.
Any of these down your way?
Despite their antediluvian appearance, they are quite harmless.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Spud Emperor,

Why would you boil such an excellent specimen? I would have kept it in a cage and brought in other arthropods to undergo combat against it, place bets, make good money!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL0Jm1x4OEE

 

[ElectricFetus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUBloU7G3BU

Well what do you know it is possible to kill a lobster humanly!

 

[Nasor]

Hummm, but lobsters and crabs and insects do generally have brain(s). :shrug:

I agree. I was simply trying to make the point that you can't interpret any reaction by an organism to something that's harmful to them as "pain." People who know things about brains claim that lobsters lack the parts of the brain necessary to really experience pain. I'll stay out of that argument though, because I don't really know anything about it.

 

[Enmos]

I agree. I was simply trying to make the point that you can't interpret any reaction by an organism to something that's harmful to them as "pain." People who know things about brains claim that lobsters lack the parts of the brain necessary to really experience pain. I'll stay out of that argument though, because I don't really know anything about it.

It's inconclusive really. They have no clue whether or not lobsters experience pain.
On the other hand, it's been shown that fish do experience pain.

 

[Randwolf]

As to Lobsters, although we know the "mate for life" is a myth, their courtship is still interesting - maybe you want to think about it as you boil the next one.
(Which I plan on doing this evening with some friends - ironically, this thread inspired the idea!)

Courtship and mating

For more than twenty years, Dr. Jelle Atema of the Marine Biological Laboratory has been studying lobster mating behavior. He claims lobsters make tender lovers.

A female lobster can mate only just after she sheds her shell. Lobster society has evolved a complex, touching courtship ritual that protects the female when she is most vulnerable. When she is ready to molt, the female lobster approaches a male's den and wafts a sex "perfume" called a pheromone in his direction. Unlike a female moth, whose sex pheromone may attract dozens of random suitors, the female lobster does the choosing. She usually seeks out the largest male in the neighborhood and stands outside his den, releasing her scent in a stream of urine from openings just below her antennae. He responds by fanning the water with his swimmerets, permeating his apartment with her perfume. He emerges from his den with his claws raised aggressively. She responds with a brief boxing match or by turning away. Either attitude seems to work to curb the male's aggression. The female raises her claws and places them on his head to let him know she is ready to mate. They enter the den, and some time after, from a few hours to several days later, the female molts. At this point the male could mate with her or eat her, but he invariably does the noble thing. He gently turns her limp body over onto her back with his walking legs and his mouth parts, being careful not to tear her soft flesh. They mate "with a poignant gentleness that is almost human, " observes Dr. Atema. The male, who remains hard-shelled, inserts his first pair of swimmerets, which are rigid and grooved, and passes his sperm into a receptacle in the female's body. She stays in the safety of his den for about a week until her new shell hardens. By then the attraction has passed, and the couple part with hardly a backward glance.

I will attempt to kill them per Asguard's method prior to boiling though - never heard of it before...
Anyways, D*mn those lobsters are good!

I have dived in the Florida Keys to "tickle" them out many times - Florida lobsters don't have those big front claws though, and that is one of my favorite parts.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

I didn't mean to imply they actually "run" I have seen a chicken without its head "run" and sure enough they don't run with their legs (often they fail to move forward at all), but I'm not going to explain that in one sentence!

Well that's fine, but a lot of people really do think they're running, and very few people know about the flight reflex. This is a place of science and scholarship after all. There's no harm in tangential footnotes.

or it just sits on a tree screaming. Depending on the size of the parrot you can track it down by its screams even from two blocks away: when a parrot is baffled and bewilder that all it does, its sit screaming for the people it knows to come find it, of course wild parrots are a different story but parrots born in captivity are completely baffled and confused by the outdoors.

Depends on the species. Our blue and gold macaw was screaming loud enough to hear over the traffic. Our African grey just vanished, even though the entire neighborhood was looking for her.

 

[alinko]

Mod Note: This is a split thread from Boiling Crabs & Lobsters.


Boiling animals alive is cruel.
Killing crabs and lobsters immediately before cooking is very easy, and avoids unnecessary pain.
Why not do it?

dont u notice as soon as u put them in the pot they kinda die easy, thats if the pot is boiling, its like sending them to bath heaven

 

[ElectricFetus]

Depends on the species. Our blue and gold macaw was screaming loud enough to hear over the traffic. Our African grey just vanished, even though the entire neighborhood was looking for her.

Is there anything that can stop you from stating the obvious?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

I don't give a shit of bugs feel a little pain or not.

Well morals ARE a personal thang... som people dont give a sht if dogs or cats feel pane or not :shrug:

 

[GuessWhoTimmySue]

Well morals ARE a personal thang... som people dont give a sht if dogs or cats feel pane or not :shrug:

ummmm...quick!


Which one doesn't belong?

A. Dogs
B. Bugs
C. Cats

 

[GuessWhoTimmySue]

9 and countin'

 

[Enmos]

ummmm...quick!


Which one doesn't belong?

A. Dogs
B. Bugs
C. Cats

Bugs don't belong in that list because dogs and cats are mammals, while bugs are not. Also, the terms 'dogs' and 'cats' both refer to a single species and/or the underlying subspecies, while the term 'bugs' refers to a wide range of orders including numerous orders in Arthropoda, Annelida and many, many others. In biology however, the term 'bugs' refers to the Insect order Hemiptera.
But what the hell is your point?

Edit: I've got another one for you.

Which does not belong?
- Baboons
- Humans
- Orangutans

 

[wsionynw]

:::sigh:::

I have Enmos. Don't jump to conclusions that I haven't "taken any time." I just don't care. They are bugs. I don't care when I kill the "bugs" that come into my house. I squish them. I don't care when I set a rodent trap to kill mice. I don't care that cows and chickens are raised for slaughter. In the case of mammals, I appreciate humane treatment. In the case of bugs, I don't really give a damn.


~String

I think the point of the OP was that since it isn't 100% clear how much or if at all lobsters suffer when being boiled, we as humans with power over the act of cooking lobster can choose to reduce the potential suffering by killing them first.

Your apathy adds nothing. But thanks anyway.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

ummmm...quick!
Which one doesn't belong?

A. Dogs
B. Bugs
C. Cats

B. is follered by "B"ugs

C. is follered by "C"ats

So "A. Dogs" dont belong cause "A" dont match the firs letter of the word that follers.!!!

But i agree wit Enmos... what the hell is you'r pont... ie... ant it true what i said to S.S.... that morals are a personal thang... ie... som people are mor compassionate about the pane of creatures than others

 

[GuessWhoTimmySue]

Bugs don't belong in that list because dogs and cats are mammals, while bugs are not. Also, the terms 'dogs' and 'cats' both refer to a single species and/or the underlying subspecies, while the term 'bugs' refers to a wide range of orders including numerous orders in Arthropoda, Annelida and many, many others. In biology however, the term 'bugs' refers to the Insect order Hemiptera.
But what the hell is your point?

Cats & dogs also have a way to communicate their pain. And so do Lobsters, IMO.

Edit: I've got another one for you.

Which does not belong?
- Baboons
- Humans
- Orangutans

Humans do not belong, but I have a feeling you'll be debating that.

B. is follered by "B"ugs

C. is follered by "C"ats

So "A. Dogs" dont belong cause "A" dont match the firs letter of the word that follers.!!!

Nutmeg gently pats ClueBoy on the head. We can go with that if it helps.

But i agree wit Enmos... what the hell is you'r pont... ie... ant it true what i said to S.S.... that morals are a personal thang... ie... som people are mor compassionate about the pane of creatures than others

Yes, I agree & my point is: We tend to take for granted the pain of those creatures/insects/animals/humans that fail to communicate their pain. Does a comatose patient feel any pain? Would you be just as careful when moving them as you are with an injured child who's screaming at the top of their lungs?