Enmos
Valued Senior Member
If you would have taken the time to learn a bit about them you wouldn't have said that they are simplistic. They are living beings like you and I, a bit of respect would be appropriate.
That is simplistic.
Animal Pain and humane treatment
- Thread starter Captain Kremmen
- Start date
If you would have taken the time to learn a bit about them you wouldn't have said that they are simplistic. They are living beings like you and I, a bit of respect would be appropriate.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Indeed.
Not to take sides or anything, but turtles/tortoises do not have an exoskeleton - they have an endoskeleton like you and me, but with an outer shell added for protection.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/t/tortoise.htm
Evidently, a tortoise does have both an endoskeleton, and an exoskeleton.
superstring01
Moderator
:::sigh:::
I have Enmos. Don't jump to conclusions that I haven't "taken any time." I just don't care. They are bugs. I don't care when I kill the "bugs" that come into my house. I squish them. I don't care when I set a rodent trap to kill mice. I don't care that cows and chickens are raised for slaughter. In the case of mammals, I appreciate humane treatment. In the case of bugs, I don't really give a damn.
It is. I never said it was complicated.
~String
superstring said:
Cows and chickens are mammals so how do you advocate the literal hell they go through in the slaughter/processing plants?
I suppose we're getting into semantics. The 'exoskeleton' for the turtle/tortoise is evolved from the endoskeleton, and attached/fused to the ribs, backbone, etc.
This is entirely different than for arthropods, which have no endoskeleton whatsoever.
I believe he was therefore referring entirely to critters without an endoskeleton; i.e. critters with only an exoskeleton, as being the "bugs" he was referring to, thereby excluding the tortoise/turtle order.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
If you have taken the time then you know they are not simplistic.
No, they aren't.
Nice..
However, rodents and cows are still mammals.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Cows and pigs are slaughter rather humanely with a pith gun, chickens get their heads cuts off while place upside down on a coveryer belt. I would advocate just filling a room up with nitrogen but that would be too expensive.
What hell is how cows, pigs and chickens are raised in factory farms: life in tiny cages or crammed with many others or both, bred to be so meaty they can barely move even if they had the space. We once had a factory chicken at our farm once: it was an ugly thing, huge and fat as hell and its feathers were all deformed, it could barely walk and it was completely blown away by the concept of an outdoors it took it some time to figure out that it needed to go back in and roust with the others ever night (either that or it was stupid as hell, probably the later), and it did not live very long, apparently so many breeding generations of having very short lives (six weeks from egg hatching to head chopping!) that its life span was shorter then regular chickens and it aged much faster.
I guess if the breeding continues we will have breeds that lack brains and are just hunks of meat that we pump food into and pump excrement out off, and maybe shock with electrodes to give the muscles a firmness.
What hell is how cows, pigs and chickens are raised in factory farms: life in tiny cages or crammed with many others or both, bred to be so meaty they can barely move even if they had the space. We once had a factory chicken at our farm once: it was an ugly thing, huge and fat as hell and its feathers were all deformed, it could barely walk and it was completely blown away by the concept of an outdoors it took it some time to figure out that it needed to go back in and roust with the others ever night (either that or it was stupid as hell, probably the later), and it did not live very long, apparently so many breeding generations of having very short lives (six weeks from egg hatching to head chopping!) that its life span was shorter then regular chickens and it aged much faster.
I guess if the breeding continues we will have breeds that lack brains and are just hunks of meat that we pump food into and pump excrement out off, and maybe shock with electrodes to give the muscles a firmness.
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Not really. There are plenty of plants and even single-celled organisms that will respond to stimulus, but most people would agree that they can't perceive anything like what we call "pain". Since they lack brains and whatnot.
You can choose to redefine any response to adverse stimulus as "pain" if you want, but that's not what people usually mean by the term.
The amount of knowledge in matters of biology is truly astounding.
If you want to get philosophical about it, it is impossible to be certain that even another human being suffers pain.
For all you know, you may be the only person that does so.
For all you know, you may be the only person that does so.
Hummm, but lobsters and crabs and insects do generally have brain(s). :shrug:
http://www.animalbehavioronline.com/insectbrains.html
and how do you know boiling crustaceans doesn't kill them instantly?
If you plunge your hand into boiling water, does it kill it instantly?
LOL no they don't. That's the air being forced out through the porous shell.
mammals and crustaceans are A LOT different.
How hard is it to decapitate the animal before boiling??