Animal cruelty

[Oxygen]

Staffy

makes ya wonder where humanity will be when our children grow up.

I guess that all depends on what we allow it to become. It's in our hands to either clean it up or blow it up. What's it gonna be? Do we raise our children to believe that things happen and there's nothing you can do about it but bend over and hope someone grabs the vaseline? Or do we teach them that there is a right and wrong, and how to tell the difference. I feel that nobody did that for my generation, that the only good in the world was mindless consumerism and being hip and fashionable, but I don't see a need to pass that legacy on to our children. Let's try to point 'em in the right direction this time. Maybe we can get it right.

 

[BLASTOFF]

re;cruelty to animals

This type of behaviour should not be allowed to happen,any one who steps in to help should be rewarded,but are not, as i know,i work on a farm and have seen a fox riped apart by dogs, i think there where about seven, and the owners where just laughing,but it did not happep a second time,i was working in on of the fields,and saw two dogs running after a young female fox, so i got a potato and threw it it hit one of the dog on the head,did not kill it mores the pity, and i threw a stone at the other one which hit in on the side,it distracted them doth and the fox got away, another time we where all in a field harvesting corn, when shooters came shooting phesents, one chap got a shoot off and killed a bird, it fell into the near by lake, the dog would not go in after it, he tried and tried to get the dog in to get the bird, but it would not go, so in the end he said he was going to shoot the dog,to say the least that it was not the dog that was shoot or throwen into the lake but it was him, and i would do it again, his dog was taken off him and he was not allowed a gun again, as i also reported him the the game keeper,as he was a very good friend of mine, justice for one dog.

 

[in vivo]

Razz---good for you. Only I hope you are around the next time this guy decides to use deadly force, because you can bet your @ss this isn't some isolated behavioral pattern.

Will it be a child that brings home an F on their report card and receives a lashing with a broken-off broom handle? Or a wife that talks back and ends up with a blow to the head?

Will he be on the freeway and become enraged by another driver, force him off the road, smash up the car and beat the driver with a baseball bat he has been keeping in his trunk for just an occasion? Or will his boss make an untoward comment to him, and he return the next day with a few guns and blow his bosses head off???

No, hopefully it won't go that far, right? The sad part is that most likely it will be some other defenseless creature living in secret agony because people who choose violence---choose violence as a way of life.

***

On a side note, you might want to do some research into violence and brutality amongst law enforcement officials. Maybe the people involved were apathetic and desensitized from their own experiences. It seems to be rampant in the US.

 

[Bohemian Nightmare]

you know i love to see how that guy would feel if someone beat HIM death with a shovel. that makes me sick man. ithink you did the right thing and youre a good person for doing it. to answer you question, i put a LOT of value on an animals life. they feel everything you and i do, like you said...and yeah shit man im just so sorry that happened. it really sadens me.

 

[emtkooter]

A long story short..... he got away with only a warning for his cruelty after committing this disgusting crime because the police couldnt be bothered following it all up properly with the vet and other witnesses.

Now I don't know for certain because I was not there when it happened, but with that said, I think the guy got off with a warning because the police had no way of proving that HE actually did the beating. There is no denying that the dog was beat, but there's no proving that HE did the beating.

You failed to mention if there was anyone else who saw this or not. If there were other people who would admit to seeing this guy beat his dog, then there might have been some more avenues that one could have pursued. But if it was just you and him, it's your word against his.

As far as prosecution goes, there are a few things that you could have done differently which may have helped your cause. However, I don't think many people are going to fault you for interveing immediately like you did.

But afterall, this is just one mans thoughts on things.

-Kooter

 

[Communist Hamster]

Major thread bump by the guy above me, but I'd like to state that I ate parts of 6 different animals yesterday.

 

[Buddha1]

Recently I was witness to an act of severe animal cruelty, i came home and found my neigbour beating his dog to death with a shovel, i jumped the fence and went nutts.

I stopped him hitting the dog,
The dog had apparently been digging holes under the fence and barking all the time and ruining his sleep.
He raved on about the dog just being a dumb mutt etc and that I should get a life and mind my own business.

The dog (a Boxer Cross) lay on the ground, completely masacred yet still alive, my neigbour finaly told me to mind my own business and went to hit the animal again, so I stopped him and a fight broke out after he tried to club me with his shovel aswell.

Now I'm no small guy and I kicked the living Poop outta this idiot then as carefully as I could picked the dog up and took it to the vetenarian clinic up the road,

The dog was immediately put down, due to its injuries etc,
I paid for the injection and the vets time out of my own pocket.

When I returned home I found my neigbour chatting with police,
Can you believe it, he was attempting to have me charged with assult and tresspass.

A long story short..... he got away with only a warning for his cruelty after committing this disgusting crime because the police couldnt be bothered following it all up properly with the vet and other witnesses.
.....................................................................................................
I want to know how many of you feel this idiot was within his rights to treat his dog how he did?

If this had been a persons life, how serious would it have been treated?

what values do you place on an animals life?

what rights does an animal have ?
.......................................................................................................
I see and hear people every day treating animals so cruely that it almost makes me cry.

Animals feel every emotion you and i feel, they have all our senses and in the case of my own dog, i know he needs lots of love and cuddles, id never beat him or starve him or abuse him in anyway.

I see my dog as my child, he loves me nomatter what.

So it annoys me to think people can have attitudes like,
"it doesnt matter, its just a dumb animal."


Id like to see major penalties applied to offenders caught abusing animals.
Id like to see these pathetic fines that most countries apply to these subhuman monsters abolished and real punishments like those imposed on people who commit crimes against human

Id like to hear what others think about my opinions.

RAZZ, I think you're a hero!

 

[James R]

Major thread bump by the guy above me, but I'd like to state that I ate parts of 6 different animals yesterday.

And that is important because ...

 

[Communist Hamster]

Because I wanted to annoy vegetarians.

 

[BLASTOFF]

SOD the law i have been there done the same thing and got the same treatment only i spent the night in the cells, it was worth it the shit got the kicking he deserved, the animal was not put down but went to a better home, mine, well done.

 

[James R]

Communist Hamster:

Because I wanted to annoy vegetarians.

So, you're proud of being immoral. Interesting.

 

[QuarkMoon]

Communist Hamster:



So, you're proud of being immoral. Interesting.

I don't know about him, but whenever I eat meat, I am proud I just gained a ton of nutrients. Meat is quite healthy, and it tastes good. *drool*

Anyone up for some steak? Perhaps some chicken breasts? Wow, now I'm hungry. :m:

 

[superluminal]

James,

Do you really feel it is immoral for humans to eat non-human animals? I raised this issue a long while back. Never actually got anywhere with it though.

 

[James R]

Communist Hamster:

I don't know about him, but whenever I eat meat, I am proud I just gained a ton of nutrients. Meat is quite healthy, and it tastes good. *drool*

Did you know you can get all the same nutrients from vegetarian foods? Probably not.

What it comes down to is that you're proud you can kill sentient creatures on a whim, just because you like the taste of their flesh. You have no moral qualms about that. It says a lot about you.


superluminal

Do you really feel it is immoral for humans to eat non-human animals? I raised this issue a long while back. Never actually got anywhere with it though.

Can you give me ANY ethical argument which justifies killing sentient non-human animals for food, in the ordinary course of life?

 

[QuarkMoon]

Did you know you can get all the same nutrients from vegetarian foods? Probably not.

False.

"There are only animal, but no vegetarian sources of Vitamin B12, which is why herbivores (i.e. rabbits) meet their Vitamin B12 requirements by eating plants that are infested with insects, or by eating their own feces."
"It may also be advisable to supplement a very small amount (DRI/RDA) of the active form of Vitamin B6 (pyridoxal-5-phosphate), since vegetarian sources of Vit B6 only supply the inactive form (pyridoxine), which will have to be converted to the active form by the liver, however the efficiency of the liver to do so may be compromised with certain types of liver diseases."

And get off your moral high ground, I'll stop eating meat when you stop wearing leather shoes. I'll stop eating meat when you no longer eat or use any of the products on this list: http://www.vnv.org.au/AnimalProducts.htm

Oh, and there is another reason why I eat meat, it tastes good! :m:

 

[superluminal]

Can you give me ANY ethical argument which justifies killing sentient non-human animals for food, in the ordinary course of life?

I just wanted to know for sure your position on this. Now I do.

So, ethical arguments? I have difficulty supporting my meat-eating habit ethically. No argument.

Having said that, predation is just as much a fundamental part of nature as is grazing and browsing. At this level I find it morally and ethically neutral. For humans who now (only recently) largely recognize the sentience of other creatures, it becomes a problem, dosen't it?

I have a question. Do other creatures value life? I don't mean "do they care for their young and other family members". Do they value life on it's merits alone? As some humans do? I would argue that it is unlikely. Advanced ethics are probably a human invention with little survival value in the wild.

So, it appears that humans have a natural desire (requirement?) to eat meat as do many other omnivores. In a natural condition (i.e. sans grocery stores) it is probably essential given the energy needs of our naturally evolved style of existence. We are not ruminants. We are not bears. We are high-energy social animals. In that condition, could anyone argue against the moral neutrality of eating meat?

Ok, so what. It seems then that the ethics of eating meat are a function of an advanced society with the means to provide concentrated, nutritionally varied, high-energy vegetable matter to eat. The morals of vegetarianism then seem to be relative and at odds with normal human existence. I would conclude this: I can't fault a human for eating meat. I also can't argue for it on a ethical basis. Ethically, we should all now start eating Boca burgers and Morningstar soy "chicken" patties. Why don't we? I've tried, and failed. Am I a bad person? Damned if I know.

 

[mountainhare]

Quarkmoon:

"There are only animal, but no vegetarian sources of Vitamin B12, which is why herbivores (i.e. rabbits) meet their Vitamin B12 requirements by eating plants that are infested with insects, or by eating their own feces."

No, you're confused, Quarky. Vegetarians eat eggs and dairy products, which contain abundant Vitamin B12. So vegetarians can obtain abudant Vit. B12 from their diet.

Vegan's don't eat eggs or dairy products, but the food they eat has Vit. B12 supplements.

And get off your moral high ground, I'll stop eating meat when you stop wearing leather shoes. I'll stop eating meat when you no longer eat or use any of the products on this list:

I thought that it would be a cold day in hell when I would rush to the defense of James, but I seriously doubt that he would knowingly wear leather shoes. And most of the products on that list come from eggs and dairy products.

You may scream 'AHA, hypocrite!', but you are just demonstrating your ignorance of the beliefs of most vegetarians. Vegetarians don't aim to 'abolish' suffering. Almost everything we do to survive hurts animals (and humans) in some way. Vegetarians aim to minimize UNNECESSARY animal suffering as much as possible. Bread and other such products made from eggs are needed to survive. Meat is not. You can survive quite well without consuming meat, and cause no harm to your health, so why make animals suffer unnecessarily? Because you enjoy eating meat? What happens if someone enjoys watching dog or cock fights... should we allow that too? Hell, let's bring back the gladiators, I'd enjoy watching a fight or two to the death.


I know that Razz's post is very old, but I find the entire incident nauseating. How can anyone claim that what Razz did was wrong, or 'against the law'. Aren't you justified in using a proportional amount of violence in self-defence, the defence of another, or to prevent a crime from being committed? If I ever saw a grown man abusing a dog (or any sentient animal, such as a cat, bird, rat, etc) in such a way, I would bash the bastard to a pulp, no questions asked. If the cops ever asked questions, I'd just claim that he came at me first, and that I was defending myself. No witnesses. What can the cops do?

 

[QuarkMoon]

Quarkmoon:

No, you're confused, Quarky. Vegetarians eat eggs and dairy products, which contain abundant Vitamin B12. So vegetarians can obtain abudant Vit. B12 from their diet.

What are eggs? James R's position is that killing sentient beings is wrong. That belief lends itself to many hypocritical scenarios, including wearing leather shoes, using any product that contains animal parts, and especially eating eggs and dairy products.

but I seriously doubt that he would knowingly wear leather shoes. And most of the products on that list come from eggs and dairy products.

How can you accidently wear leather shoes? Are you not able to recognize leather when you see it?

You may scream 'AHA, hypocrite!', but you are just demonstrating your ignorance of the beliefs of most vegetarians. Vegetarians don't aim to 'abolish' suffering. Almost everything we do to survive hurts animals (and humans) in some way. Vegetarians aim to minimize UNNECESSARY animal suffering as much as possible.

Again, that is not James R's position. If that were the case, I wouldn't give two shits if he doesn't want to eat meat. But when he castigates people for eating meat because he feels he is on a higher moral plane, I'll continue to point out his hypocrisy.

 

[mountainhare]

Quarkmoon:

What are eggs?

Not sentient beings. James R's entire contention is that we should not kill/torture animals unnecessarily because they are SENTIENT BEINGS. The last time I checked, the yolk inside an egg doesn't have a brain, or a CNS.

That belief lends itself to many hypocritical scenarios,

Ahh, the hypocrite statement so commonly used by meat-loving fanatics. 'You eat eggs, so that gives us the right to slaughter sentient beings!'

'You kill animals, so don't condemn us when we murder human beings, hypocrite!'

My my, the 'you're a hypocrite' statement is just soooo effective at justifying immoral behaviour. Boy, is that the best anti-vegetarian ilk can conjure up?

including wearing leather shoes,

Vegetarians generally don't wear leather shoes, because it involves the unnecessary killing of sentient beings.

using any product that contains animal parts,

If it involves the unnecessary killing and/or torture of sentient beings, then vegetarians won't support it.

An example of necessary killing is obtaining anti-venom from a horse in order to save a human life.

and especially eating eggs and dairy products.

1. Eggs and dairy products aren't sentient beings, nor do sentient beings need to be killed/tortured to obtain them.

2. Eggs and dairy products are necessary in order to obtain B-12, and remain healthy. Once again, vegetarians do not seek to eliminate ALL suffering, but only unnecessary suffering. Just because you hit a person unintentionally with a car, does not give you the right to engage in vehicular homicide.

How can you accidently wear leather shoes? Are you not able to recognize leather when you see it?

Have you heard of imitation leather?

But when he castigates people for eating meat because he feels he is on a higher moral plane, I'll continue to point out his hypocrisy.

And while you continue to eat meat and gloat, vegetarians on here will point out that you are condoning the unnecessary torture and murder of sentient beings. I'm sorry that you don't like such facts pointed out to you, but that's the way it is. People who are engaging in immoral acts often don't like to be challenged.

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

I see and hear people every day treating animals so cruely that it almost makes me cry.

Animals feel every emotion you and i feel, they have all our senses and in the case of my own dog, i know he needs lots of love and cuddles, id never beat him or starve him or abuse him in anyway.

I see my dog as my child, he loves me nomatter what.

So it annoys me to think people can have attitudes like,
"it doesnt matter, its just a dumb animal."


Id like to see major penalties applied to offenders caught abusing animals.
Id like to see these pathetic fines that most countries apply to these subhuman monsters abolished and real punishments like those imposed on people who commit crimes against human

Id like to hear what others think about my opinions.

I agree 100%
I'm glad you "beat the poop" out of that guy.
... idiots... i wish they would all suddenly die.