America is becoming more secular

spidergoat said:
God believers kill too, they just get forgiveness afterward. If a non-religious person believes they shouldn't kill, they also won't kill. Religion doesn't prevent killing. Most of the world is religious, and killing happens all the time.
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The point is murder. Religion have not much to do , the point is to obey the commandment , and if there is a commandment there is a giver of the commandment , the giver is an entity ( God ) . A believer believes God who see our action and know our intent . A secular does not have that cast, he can hide its action from others and can act at his will, if there are not other observers. ( Remember murder is something premeditated )
In our daily life as an example we break our traffics laws provided there is no police to pull us in.( this is a minor offence ) Murder is different
I grant you there are many secular people who are law obedient and respect life, perhap even more than some religious.
 
spidergoat said:
God believers kill too, they just get forgiveness afterward. If a non-religious person believes they shouldn't kill, they also won't kill. Religion doesn't prevent killing. Most of the world is religious, and killing happens all the time.
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Yep, Hitler could be in Heaven right now, while Anne Frank would be in Hell. Nice system you got there.
 
timojin said:
The point is murder. Religion have not much to do , the point is to obey the commandment , and if there is a commandment there is a giver of the commandment , the giver is an entity ( God ) . A believer believes God who see our action and know our intent . A secular does not have that cast, he can hide its action from others and can act at his will, if there are not other observers. ( Remember murder is something premeditated )
In our daily life as an example we break our traffics laws provided there is no police to pull us in.( this is a minor offence ) Murder is different
I grant you there are many secular people who are law obedient and respect life, perhap even more than some religious.
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The religious injunction against murder seems fragile, depending as it does on the existence of God, for which there is no evidence only faith. Thus, secular reasons not to murder are more powerful, since they are based on appeals to social order and natural compassion.

Also, that means if God says you should murder, it becomes a duty (thou shall not suffer a witch to live... If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death.)
 
spidergoat said:
The religious injunction against murder seems fragile, depending as it does on the existence of God, for which there is no evidence only faith. Thus, secular reasons not to murder are more powerful, since they are based on appeals to social order and natural compassion.

Also, that means if God says you should murder, it becomes a duty (thou shall not suffer a witch to live... If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death.)
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The laws, and the injunctions that came with them, only applied to Hebrews. It was okay to kill other tribes. You could kill your slaves.
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
The laws, and the injunctions that came with them, only applied to Hebrews. It was okay to kill other tribes. You could kill your slaves.
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If you killed your slave immediately, that could be punished. But if they died two days later, that wasn't your fault. Which brings up another point. Even if you think religious laws against murder are good for society, you still get all the other laws and customs, many of which are widely considered immoral today.
 
spidergoat said:
If you killed your slave immediately, that could be punished. But if they died two days later, that wasn't your fault. Which brings up another point. Even if you think religious laws against murder are good for society, you still get all the other laws and customs, many of which are widely considered immoral today.
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Yeah, but my point stands, you could kill human beings in your household and it wouldn't be against the laws if you met the right conditions.
 
timojin said:
Why not respect the Creator of nature . If you don't respect nature , so someone's life means to you Noting and for these mass murders life for them means nothing.
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i don't understand this logic and what 'nature' are you referring to? the one here?! killing is number one. have you ever watched a nature show or looked around in your backyard?
 
timojin said:
Grant you, you tore my argument apart, but, you last paragraph . In the 10 commandments it say thou shalt not murder. That is saying to me if the individual believes in God and is a God obeying individual he will not kill or commit murder.
A secular individual he does not recognize God so he will not obey God he will do things at his will and when necessary in his reasoning he will kill and commit murder. Do I need evidence , I don't need numbers, the point here , to do murder is the individual will and not God's will.
Now this perhaps will clear your accusation on me to be a false witness.
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yes, it's true that people are not true transparent holograms where you can see their real thoughts, beliefs, motives etc nor their internal organs. all you can concretely implement is law. with religion, anyone can claim to be or believe in anything. the problem is to be religious is that there is anything under the sun to advocate as it's also in the texts which makes it even harder to know if the muslim or christian or buddhist next to you believes what you do. even if there is no religion people will do as they want unless there are repercussions or threat of it.

nothing works unless it's enforced and religion by itself is not enough. it's like leaving your car and house unlocked and hoping your fellow citizens are good people.

you mean there has to be some medium or basis to teach ethics to society.
 
spidergoat said:
You could rape a woman too, as long as you married her, or had the silver to pay her father. But yeah, secularism is soooo bad.
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There is no raping among married couple, She or he should hold on as a bargaining chip or a punishment tool,know your marriage obligation ( contract )
 
spidergoat said:
If you killed your slave immediately, that could be punished. But if they died two days later, that wasn't your fault. Which brings up another point. Even if you think religious laws against murder are good for society, you still get all the other laws and customs, many of which are widely considered immoral today.
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Read Jeremias. God said you should set slaves free.
 
timojin said:
There is no raping among married couple, She or he should hold on as a bargaining chip or a punishment tool,know your marriage obligation ( contract )
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There is no rape among married couples, since the woman in the bible is considered a man's property, so consent is never an issue. It's just ignored.
 
timojin said:
There is no raping among married couple, She or he should hold on as a bargaining chip or a punishment tool,know your marriage obligation ( contract )
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And there's no murder between religious enemies, because God told them to do it. Kill your son? Well, maybe God said so, so it's not wrong. Kill your neighbor? Maybe God told you to kill him because he's a nonbeliever.

Religion gives you all the cover you need to do any sort of immoral act.
 
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