AIDS Class Action Lawsuit

[Giambattista]

I think you and Genjivitus are both biggots and liars. You keep proposing evidence tht clearly just isn't there.

Biggots??? Liars????????????

Let me ask just who is the biggot? Who is the liar?

Genji asked who is being affected most by the AIDS epidemic. He said something like:
" Have you looked at whom AIDS/HIV is killing most in the world? Straight US blacks, African women (contracting it from straight men) and Asian sex workers, servicing Western straight men. There has been a small rebound in Western gay men getting it but NOTHING remotely close to the devastation the disease is bringing to sub-Saharan Africa and African Americans."


You then said:
Can either of you even read a graph? Genjivitus is a janitor so somebody help him. In the USA his claim is totally unfounded.

Who was talking about just the USA? Your supposed lawsuit doesn't mention the USA as the only place this lawsuit will take place, as far as I can tell. And that doesn't even matter, because he (and moi) were talking about AIDS worldwide.

From http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/aids/stories/overview/

According to estimates from UNAIDS, an umbrella group for five U.N. agencies, the World Bank and the World Health Organization, 34.3 million people in the world have AIDS -- 24.5 million of them in sub-Saharan Africa. Nearly 19 million have died from AIDS, 3.8 million of them children under the age of 15.

And also this:

Among the other statistics:
5.4 million new AIDS infections in 1999, 4 million of them in Africa.
2.8 million dead of AIDS in 1999, 85 percent of them in Africa.
13.2 million children orphaned by AIDS, 12.1 million of them in sub-Saharan Africa.
Reduced life expectancy in sub-Saharan Africa from 59 years to 45 between 2005 and 2010, and in Zimbabwe from 61 to 33.
More than 500,000 babies infected in 1999 by their mothers -- most of them in sub-Saharan Africa.

Granted, those stats are from an article written in 2000. So, do you assume that much has changed since then? Not a chance.

According to www.avert.org, using statistics apparently from 2005, while the world now has 38.6 million AIDS cases (roughly 4 million more than in the article from 2000), Africa still has roughly 24.5 million. That's about 2/3 of all the AIDS and HIV cases in the world.

Surely you weren't calling Genji and myself both liars for pointing out the truth that the majority of the AIDS victims are from Africa!!! Oh, but...

The data goes all the way to 2003.

Here's some data from the CDC from 2004:

http://www.cdc.gov/HIV/topics/aa/resources/factsheets/aa.htm

According to the 2000 census, African Americans make up 12.3% of the US population. However, African Americans accounted for 19,206 (50%) of the estimated 38,730 new HIV/AIDS diagnoses in the United States in the 35 areas with long-term, confidential name-based HIV reporting.

African Americans account for roughly half of all the new AIDS cases in 2004.

The rate of AIDS diagnoses for African American adults and adolescents was 10 times the rate for whites and almost 3 times the rate for Hispanics. The rate of AIDS diagnoses for African American women was 23 times the rate for white women. The rate of AIDS diagnoses for African American men was 8 times the rate for white men.

from http://www.blackwomenshealth.com/HIV_AIDS.htm

The AIDS rate among Black women is three times as high as that among Latino women and 18 times as high as that among White women. Today Black women make up more than half of all women who have died of AIDS.

from the CDC again:

According to this chart, African American women make up over 60% of all females with AIDS in the United States. Why are you ignoring the obvious risks of being a black female?

At the very top of that CDC link, we find this summary:

In the United States, the HIV/AIDS epidemic is a health crisis for African Americans. In 2002, HIV/AIDS was among the top 3 causes of death for African American men aged 25–54 years and among the top 4 causes of death for African American women aged 25–54 years. It was the number 1 cause of death for African American women aged 25–34 years.

Sound alarming?

Yes, male-male sexual contact has an increased risk of AIDS infection. Most of this is anal sex. I don't think anyone denies that. I certainly don't.

From avert.org:

In the USA, it is estimated that nearly 300,000 men were living with AIDS at the end of 2002, and another 420,000 had died. Almost 60% of men diagnosed with HIV/AIDS in the USA were probably exposed to the virus through male-to-male sexual contact.

But if this is about homosexuals in general, then the homosexual women (lesbians) appear to be for the most part unaffected by it, as this report from the CDC states:

To date, there are no confirmed cases of female-to-female sexual transmission of HIV in the United States database (K. McDavid, CDC, oral communication, March 2005). However, case reports of female-to-female transmission of HIV and the well-documented risk of female-to-male transmission indicate that vaginal secretions and menstrual blood are potentially infectious and that mucous membrane (for example, oral, vaginal) exposure to these secretions has the potential to lead to HIV infection.

AIDS IS a growing epidemic right here in the USA, and It's primarily related to male-to-male sexual contact as the graph proves without even the slightest doubt. Second place is IV drug use (another moral problem).

I can't believe I wasted 15 minutes of my life responding to idiots like you two.

Though you called both of us biggots, liars, and idiots, I should inform you that we weren't just talking about AIDS in the USA, but the entire world. All of North America and the Western half of Europe combined make only about 5% of AIDS cases worldwide. So your focus on gay men in the USA is really a pittance.

You started out talking about homosexuality in general, and now we have basically statistics about gay males and AIDS. Am I supposed to be disgusted at homosexuality just because anal sex between two men is one of the greatest risk factors for AIDS? Penile-vaginal sex is right behind it, and lo and behold, female homosexuals have a very low risk of contracting AIDS.

In the end, this rant of yours should be directed towards anal sex, not solely homosexuals. After all, heterosexuals can and do engage in anal intercourse, and there is absolutely no reason why that wouldn't be any less of a risk.

Isn't promiscuity, as well as unprotected sex, another large facet of this dilemma?

Last time I checked, lesbians were more likely to have a long-term relationship than their male counterparts, and that their long-term relationships last longer on average than those among gay males.

So, in essence, this seems to be about both anal intercourse, and promiscuity. However, I have gathered from this thread (and others you have recently started) that you wish to insult, defame, and apparently invalidate same-sex relationships. This pinning of the AIDS epidemic solely on gay people is part of it.

- Being attracted to your own gender won't give you AIDS.
- Having a relationship with someone of your own gender won't give you AIDS.
- Having sexual contact with someone of your own gender won't give you AIDS.

- Having unprotected sex with someone who has AIDS or HIV is very likely to give you AIDS.

Both of you go to my ignore list. I don't have time for this. Why don't you two research your stupid statements before you make such idiotic claims.

You're going to ignore me, eh? Should I be elated, or deflated?

Both of you go to my ignore list. I don't have time time for this stupidity.

You already said that.

 

[Giambattista]

Oh, yes, and women make up roughly 2/3 of all AIDS cases in Africa. They must be male homosexuals.

 

[Genji]

Woody, A church you can embrace.www.godhatesfags.com
You are the ugly face of xianity.

 

[Giambattista]

Woody, A church you can embrace.www.godhatesfags.com
You are the ugly face of xianity.

Sorry, buddy pal, but your effort at proselytizing seems to be a waste of time, considering he has had a little tantrum and put us both on ignore.

He just recently commented about some "gays" on Rickki Lake who just couldn't keep their "sissy butts" in their chairs.

Seems to me, though, that Woodrow, much like a bratty child, can't keep his itchy finger off the ignore button everytime someone says something he doesn't like (or can't respond to).

Pissy, pissy, pissy. (that one's not going away too soon!)

 

[Giambattista]

Is it just me, or is Woody especially prone to putting people on ignore? In the last week or so, I've seen him do that multiple times.

And, by the way, hasn't he put Genji in the timeout box TWICE already?

 

[Woody]

From the presentation:

African American men who have sex with men (MSM) are especially hard hit.

RA said:

Again, what's your reason for focusing on gay men? Maybe we should only quarantine black gay men, who are one of the prime risk groups.

All AIDS carriers should have been quarantined. I'd agree with that.

Now concerning the gay male population, they have the highest AIDS incidence of any group. One chart says there are 180,000 same sex males with AIDS, the other chart you pulled out (which I've looked at before) says there are 60,000 heterosexual females with AIDS. Considering that the gay population is less than3% of the total population, the implications are real obvious, unless you're like the dumb janitor on this forum that can't count past 10 (AIDS dementia would probably boost his intelligence).

You'd have to be real bigoted if you can't see the implications: gay men are by far the greatest AIDS health risk in the USA.



footnote:

the National Survey of Men finds that only 1 per cent of respondents consider themselves exclusively homosexual (see This Week).

The new estimate of the size of the homosexual population should not really have come as such a surprise, however. If Americans had been a little more familiar with European work they would have known that similar figures have been reported in surveys from the UK and France over the past year.

The 10% Kinsey number is another gay-activist lie. It was based on male prison inmate populations -- how many male prisoners have intercourse with women in the penitentiary? It's like Duh Duh Duh. Kinsey a biology professor? Jeeez! Apparantly he's unaware there aren't any available females lounging around at a male prison facility -- like duh man.

 

[Woody]

Tuberculosis and AIDS are bed buddies

Report from CASE Western Reserve University

By immunocompromising its carriers, HIV/AIDS facilitates the infection of patients with other opportunistic infections. Via this mechanism, HIV/AIDS has helped fuel the TB epidemic. HIV positive individuals are 50 times more likely to be infected by TB, and once infected, are 800 times more likely to develop an active TB infection.[10],[11]

[10] http://www.who.int/tb/hiv/en/
[11] http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/tb/pubs/TB_HIVcoinfection/default.htm

The WHO estimates that one third of the 40 million HIV positive people in the world have TB

http://www.who.int/tb/hiv/en/]] http://www.who.int/tb/hiv/en/

The AIDS defining opportunistic infections and neoplasms (tumors) found in patients with HIV infection are

INFECTIONS

Protozoal and Helminthic Infections

Cryptosporidiosis or isosporidiosis (enteritis)

Pneumocytis (pneumonia or disseminated infection)

Toxoplasmosis (pneumonia or CNS infection)

Fungal Infections

Candidiasis (esophageal, tracheal, or pulmonary)

Cryptococcosis (CNS infection)

Coccidiodomycosis (disseminated)

Histoplasmosis (disseminated)

Bacterial Infections

Mycobacteriosis (atypical, e.g. M. avium-intracellulare, disseminated or extrapulminary; M. tuberculosis, pulmonary or extrapulmonary)

Nocardiosis (pneumonia, meningitis, disseminated)

Salmonella infections, disseminated

Viral Infections

Cytomegalovirus (pulmonary, intestinal, retinitis, or CNS infections)

Herpes simplex virus (localized or disseminated)

Varicella-zoster virus (localized or disseminated)

Progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy

NEOPLASMS (tumors)

Kaposi sarcoma

B-cell non-Hodgkin lymphomas

Primary lymphoma of the brain

Invasive cancer of uterine cervix

Yike -- a walking Pandora's box of diseases. Anybody wanna sit beside it on the bus? How about you James R?

From the next source

HIV/AIDS Fuels
Tuberculosis Crisis - UN
By Anthony Mitchell
Associated Press Writer
9-20-4

ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia -- The spread of HIV/AIDS is fueling a massive tuberculosis crisis that could see one billion people infected in the next 20 years, the U.N. warned Monday.

ahh shucks just a billion people with TB, no big deal. A little TB never hurt anybody, right Giambattista? Just a sneeze and a nose sniffle -- no big deal -- right Genji?

A staggering 35 million people could also die of TB in that time if its growth continues unchecked, the World Health Organization said at the start of a two-day conference in the Ethiopian capital, Addis Ababa.

The conference is seeking to promote joint treatment of the two leading killer diseases in the world. AIDS kills 8,000 people worldwide a day while another 5,000 die from TB.

TB is the most common infection among - and the leading killer of - people living with HIV/AIDS.

Why am I educating everyone? This is a science community, right? yeah sure. So go ahead and do your damnedest to be as gay as you can be. Really get in there and work on that AIDS now fellows. Go for the prize! A little dookie on the dingy, a little tongue on the 'ol bung. Stick your tongue in there and dig out all the disease germs you can find. Don't let the world down. We expect your very best effort ... hack...cough... wheez.... choke...arghh... AIDS, we luv ya!!!!!!

 

[MetaKron]

Science is dead.

 

[android]

I have better AIDS than you do.

http://www.gnaa.us/

 

[Woody]

Science is dead.

It's dead at this place.

You are beat and you know it.

 

[Woody]

AIDS is easily controlled on a personal level. Obstain from sex or use a condom.

That's pretty good SM. Christians agree with abstinance -- they always have agreed with it.

As for the condom -- sex with a condom ain't no fun. Anybody that's used one knows that.

Hence no epidemic control is necessary. Just personal responsibility.

Personal responsibility takes moral character. A homosexual with sound moral character, now that's surely what we need! Then they wouldn't be a homosexual anymore. So we agree on two out of three points anyway.

 

[MetaKron]

Whoever took moral responsibility in this would have killed the promoters of AIDS a long time ago. By the time this is over a lot of people will have died, not of AIDS but of AIDS medications and the corruption surrounding the whole deal.

The U.S. has succeeded in sacrificing the lives of a number of its "undesirables" to set up a situation in which our troops will be willing to use the neutron bomb against "diseased" populations in Africa to clear space for development and to make a lot of billions of dollars for the usual ripoff artists. It has made the world a more dangerous place in many ways and taken a lot of the fun out of life, and the health demons that it is chasing are like all demons just fantasies to make poor people go along with it. We even destroy those who would tell us that the coming genocidal wars are wrong.

 

[Giambattista]

The 10% Kinsey number is another gay-activist lie. It was based on male prison inmate populations -- how many male prisoners have intercourse with women in the penitentiary? It's like Duh Duh Duh.

Yes, it really IS like "Duh, duh, duh!!!" I'm like, "DUH, Woody, you should be more careful with your rabidly biased statements!"

If you actually knew what you were talking about regarding Kinsey's study, you wouldn't at all be able to say it was based on male inmates. Approximately 25% of the subjects in the study had been in prison at one time. There's no indication how long any of them were in prison, for what, or what the individual prisons were like. The conditions, atmosphere, and tolerance (as well as prison regulations) would affect the amount of sexual contact one could get away with, if at all.
A sometime-friend/acquaintance of mine was in prison for a year or so (hence the sometime ) and I asked him, somewhat jokingly, about gay sex in jail. He said it was against the prison rules, and that people shouldn't believe everything they see in the movies. For what it's worth.

My point is that there is no proof that all of them could or would have homosexual interactions. Further, there is no proof that all of them would even have the desire, whether or not they had the chance to.

No one should assume that all 25% (or even 1/4 of that 1/4) of the inmate sample engaged in homosexual intercourse.

More interestingly, Gebhard and Johnson, after removing the inmate sample, found that there was little significant change to the results.

Instead of Kinsey's 37 %, Gebhard and Johnson came up with
36.4 %; the 10 % figure (with prison inmates excluded) came to 9.9 % for white, college-educated males and 12.7 % for those with less education. And as for the call for a "random sample," a team of independent statisticians studying Kinsey's procedures had concluded as far back as 1953 that the unique problems inherent in sex research precluded the possibility of obtaining a true random sample, and that Kinsey's interviewing technique had been "extraordinarily skillful." They characterized Kinsey's work overall as "a monumental endeavor."

As for 10% itself, that figure was basically for people who reported definite bisexuality to complete homosexuality for several years of their lives (not their whole lives).

In The Kinsey Data, Gebhard and Johnson (1979) reexamined the amount of homosexual experience in Kinsey's basic sample of noninstitutionalized males and females. They found 9.9% of the males in the College Sample had extensive homosexual experience. 3.7% of females had extensive homosexual experience.

In Definition and Measurement of Sexual Orientation, Gonsiorek, Sell, and Weinrich did a review of various studies and surveys from the past. According to the brief description given by the Kinsey Institute:

The authors reviewed methods used in defining and measuring sexual orientation, and briefly critiqued surveys of homosexual activity from Kinsey in 1948 to the 1994 study by Laumann, et al. Because of the possible risks involved in self-disclosure, it is posited that the recurrent 2-5% for same-gender sexual behavior in the studies reviewed represents a minimum figure. They suggest that the current prevalence of predominant same-sex orientation is 4-17%.

Because of all the different results of the various studies, as well as their methodologies, it is difficult to precisely pinpoint the exact number of people who prefer their own gender. This is especially affected by the social stigma that homosexuality carries with it.

Kinsey's 10% may well be close to the heart of the matter, which is more important than what's on the surface.

 

[Giambattista]

Personal responsibility takes moral character. A homosexual with sound moral character, now that's surely what we need! Then they wouldn't be a homosexual anymore.

What a leap of (non) logic you've made! You must be an ibex!

 

[Giambattista]

ahh shucks just a billion people with TB, no big deal. A little TB never hurt anybody, right Giambattista? Just a sneeze and a nose sniffle -- no big deal -- right Genji?

I know a guy who had TB once. He got over it. He's not dead.

I'm guessing that, just as Africa has 60% of the world's AIDS population, Africa will also have the lion's share of TB deaths. And North America and Europe will probably have the least, for more than one reason.

Why am I educating everyone?

Don't peck yourself on the back too hard, Woody. I'm perfectly capable of improving my own mind without the obvious anti-homosexual bias that accompanies your so-called education, thank you very much.

 

[Giambattista]

Kinsey's 10% may well be close to the heart of the matter, which is more important than what's on the surface.

Which is exactly the opposite of what many ex-gay groups apparently teach.
They're much more interested in the surface appearance. The act.

 

[Woody]

THE "TEN PERCENT" GAY MYTH

---->10% of the population is GAY blurble blurble blurble!!!

2% is the fish. The other 8% is just his blow-job!

Looking over the data, even "2% gay" is a bit of a stretch.

The bigoted pro-gay organizations cling to Kinsey's 10% number. They lie to normalize gay lifestyle, to fool politician's about voting strength, and to make themselves feel more important - kinda self-serving you see.

US demographics say:


Total US pouplation 284,800,000 100.0 %

gay men (5) 2,000,000 0.70 %
bisexual (5) 1,400,000 0.49 %
lesbians (5 ) 900,000 0.32 %
Total GLB 4,300,000 1.51%

Footnote 5. 1.51% of the total U.S. population identifies themselves as gay, lesbian or bisexual, or 4.3 total million Americans. These numbers are based on figures provided by a broad-based coalition of gay rights organizations and homosexual advocacy groups. The primary source cited was the The National Health and Social Life Survey (NHSLS), published in the book The Social Organization of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States (1994), by Laumann, Gagnon, Michael and Michaels.

CHAPTER 116 — HOMOSEXUAL ORIENTATION AND THE "TEN PERCENT" MYTH

I campaigned with Gay groups and in the media across the country for the Kinsey-based finding that 'We are everywhere.' This slogan became a National Gay Task Force leitmotif. And the issues derived from the implications of the Kinsey data became key parts of the national political, educational, and legislative programs during my years at New York's Gay Activist Alliance and the National Gay Task Force.

FIGURE 116-1

Percent Reporting a Homosexual Experience at Any Time in Their Lives

Location-----------------Persons
of Study--------Year----Surveyed---Men--------------Women[11]

Norway[1]-------1987----6,300------221/3,150 (7.0%)--189/3,150 (6.0%)
Denmark[2]------1987----1,155------46/1,155 (4.0%)
Denmark[3]------1989----3,178------92/1,589 (5.8%)-----86/1,589 (5.4%)
Great Britain[4]--1989-----2,171-----54/1,086 (5.0%)-----52/1,085 (4.8%)
United States[5]-1987----36,741-----700/18,370 (3.8%)--700/18,371 (3.8%)
United States[6]-1989-------904-----47/904 (5.2%)
United States[7]-1992---109,654-----3,070/109,654 (2.8%)
France[8]--------1992-----20,000-----410/10,000 (4.1%)--260/10,000 (2.6%)
United States[9]--1992---15,490-----205/7,745 (2.6%)----167/7,745 (2.2%)
United States[10]-1993---3,321------76/3,321 (2.3%)
TOTALS------------------------198,914
----------------------------------------------4,921/156,974 (3.0%)--1,454/41,940(3.5%)

[1] J.M. Sundet, et.al. "Prevalence of Risk-Prone Sexual Behaviour in the General Population of Norway." Described in Georg Liss, Global Impact of AIDS, 1988, pages 53 to 60.

[2] K.W. Schmidt, et.al. "Occurrence of Sexual Behaviour Related to the Risk of HIV-Infection." Danish Medical Bulletin 1989:36; pages 84 to 88.

[3] M. Melbye and R.J. Biggar. American Journal of Epidemiology 1992, 135 pages 593 to 602.

[4] G.M. Breakwell and C. Fife-Shaw. "Sexual Activities and Preferences in a United Kingdom Sample of 16 to 20-Year Olds." Archives of Sexual Behavior, 1992:21, pages 271 to 293. Also see D. Forman and C. Chilvers. "Sexual Behaviour of Young and Middle-Aged Men in England and Wales." British Medical Journal, 298, 1989, pages 1,137 to 1,142.

[5] G. Ramafedi, et.al. "Demography of Sexual Orientation in Adolescents." Pediatrics, 1992:89, pages 714 to 721.

[6] S. Roberts and C. Turner. "Male-Male Sexual Contact in the USA: Findings From Five Sample Surveys, 1970-1990." Journal of Sexual Research 1991:28, 491-519.

[7] Deborah Dawson. "AIDS Knowledge and Attitudes for January-March, 1990, Provisional Data From the National Health Interview Survey;" Joseph E. Fitti and Marcie Cynamon, op. cit. for April-June, 1990; Pamela F. Adams and Ann M. Hardy, op. cit. for July-September, 1990. All in Advance Data, numbers 193, 195, and 198, National Center for Health Statistics, Centers for Disease Control, Public Health Service, United States Department of Health and Human Services. Page 11 in all three documents.

[8] Study ending in June of 1992, performed by Alfred Spira of the Bicetre Hospital of Paris. described in Peter Aldhous. "Sexual Behavior: French Venture Where U.S. Fears to Tread." Science Magazine, July 3, 1992, page 25.

[9] Results of a November 1992 election exit poll, described in Murray Edelman. "The Gay Issues." The New York Times, November 5, 1992, pages B8 and B9.

[10] Alan Guttmacher Institute. Family Planning Perspectives. April 15, 1993. Study quoted in Kim Painter. "Only 1% of Men Say They Are Gay." USA Today, April 15, 1993, pages 1A and 8D.

[11] From those studies that included both men and women only. For all cases in which both men and women were studied, it is assumed that the studies and surveys concentrated on a population that was split evenly between men and women.

RESULTS OF THE KINSEY SURVEYS ON REASONS FOR HOMOSEXUAL ORIENTATION

Reasons Given for Orientation Percent

"Early homosexual experience with adults or peers" 22%
"Around homosexuals a lot, have a lot of homosexual friends" 16%
"Poor relationship with mother" 15%
"Poor relationship with father" 14%
"Unusual development (labeled sissy, tomboy, etc)." 15%
"Heterosexual partners unavailable" 12%
"Social ineptitude" 9%
"I was born that way" 9%

References. (1) A.P. Bell. "Homosexualities: Their Range and Character." Paper in Nebraska Symposium on Motivation. J.K. Cole and R. Dienstbier (editors). Lincoln, Nebraska: University of Nebraska Press, 1973. (2) Paul Cameron. What Causes Homosexuality? Lincoln, Nebraska: Institute for the Scientific Study of Sexuality (ISIS), 1984.

How about that? "I was born that way" heads up last place with only 9%.

 

[James R]

AIDS IS a growing epidemic right here in the USA, and It's primarily related to male-to-male sexual contact as the graph proves without even the slightest doubt. Second place is IV drug use (another moral problem).

Let's see your graph for the whole world.

 

[MetaKron]

I think that the graph proves nothing but the increasing popularity of the test.

 

[Mystech]

If you bought a similar lawsuit against the US federal government you might have a case - they have, after all, banned funding of any AIDS prevention and education programs which target Homosexuals in any way. You've got your fellow conservative religious nut-jobs to blame for that.

Also, what schools promote same-sex relationships? Are you completely mental?