AI and the singularity

[TheFrogger]

...but are YOU sure River?

 

[Write4U]

Information is not just about photons .

Smell , touch , taste , hearing , is not based on photons , but molecules of matter .

Yes, but quantum wave collapse is not just about photons. All waves are subject to collapse and create a "bing".
At least that's how I understand Hameroff.

 

[TheFrogger]

How can a wave collapse, given that they repeat?

 

[Write4U]

Computers is based on physical things existing . Things that are physical in the Universe . Galaxies , Suns , planets etc . Energy and Matter .

Therefore the three dimensional , physical things , the Universe , existed before computers .

Are humans the inventors of information processing or did information processing exist since the beginning as a potential of spacetime itself?

The universe was not able to behave computer-like until man came along, sounds like hubris to me.

IMO, this ties in precisely with the concept of mathematics being the exclusive invention of man and the universe did not have any mathematical properties until man came along.....hubrissssss!

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Computers is based on physical things existing . Things that are physical in the Universe . Galaxies , Suns , planets etc . Energy and Matter .

Therefore the three dimensional , physical things , the Universe , existed before computers .

Are humans the inventors of information processing or did information processing exist since the beginning as a potential of spacetime itself?

The universe was not able to behave computer-like until man came along, sounds like hubris to me.

IMO, this ties in precisely with the concept of mathematics being the exclusive invention of man and the universe did not have any mathematical properties until man came along.....hubrissssss!

Mathematics is irrelevant to the existence of physical objects , neither in the micro nor macro .

Without physical objects , mathematics could never exist .

 

[Write4U]

How can a wave collapse, given that they repeat?

When they hit something or exceed a treshold and collapse into a different state....a "bing" moment.

Orchestrated objective reduction (Orch OR) is a biological theory of mind that postulates that consciousness originates at the quantum level inside neurons, rather than the conventional view that it is a product of connections between neurons. The mechanism is held to be a quantum process called objective reduction that is orchestrated by cellular structures called microtubules.

Microtubules are one of the cytoskeletal filament systems in eukaryotic cells. The microtubule cytoskeleton is involved in the transport of material within cells, carried out by motor proteins that move on the surface of the microtubule.

It is proposed that the theory may answer the hard problem of consciousness and provide a mechanism for free will.

The hypothesis was first put forward in the early 1990s by theoretical physicist Roger Penrose and anaesthesiologist and psychologist Stuart Hameroff. The hypothesis combines approaches from molecular biology, neuroscience, quantum physics, pharmacology,
philosophy, quantum information theory, and quantum gravity

While mainstream theories assert that consciousness emerges as the complexity of the computations performed by cerebral neurons increases,[4][5] Orch OR posits that consciousness is based on non-computable quantum processing performed by qubits formed collectively on cellular microtubules, a process significantly amplified in the neurons.

The qubits are based on oscillating dipoles forming superposed resonance rings in helical pathways throughout lattices of microtubules. The oscillations are either electric, due to charge separation from London forces, or magnetic, due to electron spin—and possibly also due to nuclear spins (that can remain isolated for longer periods) that occur in gigahertz, megahertz and kilohertz frequency ranges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrated_objective_reduction

And an interesting article on a symposium organized by Google, with possible interest in quantum computer technologies.
https://discovermagazine.com/bonus/quantum

 

[Write4U]

Mathematics is irrelevant to the existence of physical objects , neither in the micro nor macro .

Without physical objects , mathematics could never exist .

Why not? IMO, Universal (not human) mathematics are an essential potential of spacetime fabric. What are we talking about when we speak of spacetime coordinates? Metaphysical coordinate points in space, no? Yet they are mathematical geometrics, by any name.

I would suggest that without mathematics physical objects could not exist. Physical objects are patterns. Self ordering patterns are a mathematical function. Else we have chaos, and even then mathematical patterns become manifest, albeit at the probabilistic level only.

 

[river]

If the wave collapses , because of observation by us , what of one hundred observers , observing the same wave ?

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Mathematics is irrelevant to the existence of physical objects , neither in the micro nor macro .

Without physical objects , mathematics could never exist .

Why not? IMO, Universal (not human) mathematics are an essential potential of spacetime fabric. What are we talking about when we speak of spacetime coordinates?

How does space and time have a fabric , unto themselves , without any thing physical existing on which to place any coordinates on ?

 

[TheFrogger]

The co-ordinates are located in space.

 

[river]

The co-ordinates are located in space.

Yes

Based on the movement(s) of an object(s) . Based further on the objects , forms of energy and interactions with other objects .

 

[river]

Ai , needs a physical Universe to exist .

Plus intelligence , life

 

[Write4U]

How does space and time have a fabric , unto themselves , without any thing physical existing on which to place any coordinates on ?

Define space and time as physical things without form?

 

[Write4U]

Ai , needs a physical Universe to exist .

Plus intelligence , life

What you understand as motivated intelligence is in reality a implacable quasi-intelligent mathematical function. Life emerging from inanimate chemistry.

 

[Write4U]

If the wave collapses , because of observation by us , what of one hundred observers , observing the same wave ?

The term observer is an impersonal term and has nothing to do with vision or recording. Observation merely means cause and result. A wave hitting a wall will collapse, whether anyone is looking or not.

The double slit experiment proves that the interference pattern will emerge regardless of an observer. We can run the experiment while out of the room. Then after he experiment has finished we enter the room and behold, the interference pattern has emerged on the photo plate.

 

[river]

Define space and time as physical things without form?

You can't

 

[TheFrogger]

Actually a wave hitting a wall is what inspired me to question the, "wave collapse" theory. A wave hitting a wall simply reverses and returns. Consider a pond, or a lake. The wave is reflected.

 

[river]

The term observer is an impersonal term and has nothing to do with vision or recording. Observation merely means cause and result. A wave hitting a wall will collapse, whether anyone is looking or not.

The double slit experiment proves that the interference pattern will emerge regardless of an observer.

Then why bring in an observer into the equation ?

 

[Write4U]

How does space and time have a fabric , unto themselves , without any thing physical existing on which to place any coordinates on ?

You tell me, spacetime coordinate is a mainstream term in relation to GR, no?

 

[Write4U]

Actually a wave hitting a wall is what inspired me to question the, "wave collapse" theory. A wave hitting a wall simply reverses and returns. Consider a pond, or a lake. The wave is reflected.

How do flowers reflect color? Part of the light has been absorbed, no? How much light does a black surface reflect.