Against Religious Tolerance

[SkinWalker]

Just because you're deluded enough to believe that superstitious nonsense, doesn't mean people who don't think like you will go to hell or that there really is a hell.

If I say "fuck the holy ghost" and you read it, does that mean now you'll go to hell for thinking a blasphemous thought.

Tsk, tsk. You gotta stop hanging out with us atheists lapdog.

 

[Lawdog]

It is written what Christ Our Lord himself said:
"...Those who do not believe shall be condemned."
do you really think I would spend my time trying
to convince you if I thought not-believing it was just a
small minor flaw?

I didnt make up the rules, nor did the Roman Church. God did.
He made Hell and will allow it to be filled.

So stop blaming me with all your negativity.
I am just telling you
for your own good.

There are no dead atheists.

 

[SkinWalker]

That's a convenient cult that includes such fallacious tricks of poisoning the well. You have to believe otherwise you go to a hell. Exactly the kind of thing I would certainly have included in my doctrine were I an early Iron Age priest forming a new cult to increase my own wealth and power.

These claims of supernatural agency are nothing but magical thinking and delusion. Get over yourself and go preach to people who give a shit about what you think.

 

[Avatar]

It amazes, scares and disgusts me to see that the world is still so full of people like Lawdog.
Even more so, because they don't understand and misinterpret their own religion.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

It amazes, scares and disgusts me to see that the world is still so full of people like Lawdog.
Even more so, because they don't understand and misinterpret their own religion.

*************
M*W: If it weren't for nutcases like Lapdog, we wouldn't have had the Dark Ages!

 

[scorpius]

But the Atheists just want to put a lid on it. Why? So they can have all their Secular Wars and Secular Revolutions without Religious Interference. Just look at the 20th Century. The Bloodiest Century in History -- and all Secular and Atheist.

you truly are one bulshiting morron,show us one war that was fought IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM
or anyone being killed tortured murdered "in the name of atheism".
no one to my knowledge ...fyi
heres Hitlers beliefs www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
and we all know what the Shrub believes dont we?

 

[Cris]

scorpius,

Really good references to Hitler's Christianity - wow.

 

[Diogenes' Dog]

scorpius,

Really good references to Hitler's Christianity - wow.

Not really Cris, if you switch on your own critical faculties for a moment.

1) Politicians pay lip service to religion all the time and nobeliefs.com is in the business of denigrating religion by this sort of stuff. Hitler attained power by his appeal to the conservative Catholic majority of Germans who feared communism.

2) Hitler subverted the church for his own ends - many priests who did not conform to Nazi principles were arrested and sent to concentration camps, especially after the failed Von Staufanberg plot (which had links to protestant churches).

3) Hitler had no priests on his staff, or among his advisors. He did not call on the services of a priest at any time while in power, or in the bunker prior to his suicide. His marriage to Eva Braun was performed by a secular official.

4) Above all, he had no ideology apart from Nazism, which was certainly NOT based on christian principles!

5) The nobeliefs.com site evidence is based largely on Hitlers use of religious terms including 'God'. Einstein also used religious language and referred to God in hundreds of quotes (even without a political agenda) yet we know he did not believe in a personal God. Many atheists have argued strongly that Einstein was a non-theist. You cannot argue it both ways!

A summary of the overwhelming evidence against Hitler being a christian can be found at http://christiancadre.org/topics/hitler.html

The problem of saying "Hitler was a Christian" when by "Christian" is meant something totally different from normal usage and historical context, is that the sentence ceases to mean anything.... The only "value" in saying "Hitler was a Christian" with an iconoclastic meaning for "Christian" is as a tool of anti-Christian propaganda towards the end of misleading people.

 

[iam]

^ you're missing the point. He certainly used christian principles. Its called hypocrisy. The fraudulent right you assume from the bubble in the sky to justify your ideology against others who are different. Read the old testament. Same shit, different box.

 

[Godless]

1) Politicians pay lip service to religion all the time and nobeliefs.com is in the business of denigrating religion by this sort of stuff. Hitler attained power by his appeal to the conservative Catholic majority of Germans who feared communism.

Hmmm, sounds like Bush&co

2) Hitler subverted the church for his own ends - many priests who did not conform to Nazi principles were arrested and sent to concentration camps, especially after the failed Von Staufanberg plot (which had links to protestant churches).

Scarry sounds like Bush&Co

3) Hitler had no priests on his staff, or among his advisors. He did not call on the services of a priest at any time while in power, or in the bunker prior to his suicide. His marriage to Eva Braun was performed by a secular official.

Don't we wish it sounded like Bush!!

4) Above all, he had no ideology apart from Nazism, which was certainly NOT based on christian principles!

Above all, he has no ideology apart from Concervatism, which is certainly NOT based on christian principles.

Godless

 

[Lawdog]

It amazes, scares and disgusts me to see that the world is still so full of people like Lawdog.
Even more so, because they don't understand and misinterpret their own religion.

If your not a Catholic, and have not spent many years studying Catholic theology, then its an error of judgement to say that I misinterprete. At least most of the atheists here realize that I am writing the actual Catholic teachings. They hate religion for a reason, not just because a few people got it wrong.

They hate me because in their minds I somehow embody what they deem as ignorance borne of religious superstition. What they dont understand is that its not necessarily a reality (death heavan, Hell, Purgatory, etc) that I or God or the saints particularly like or enjoy, its just the way it is and God can and will do nothing to change it.

 

[Diogenes' Dog]

^ you're missing the point. He certainly used christian principles. Its called hypocrisy. The fraudulent right you assume from the bubble in the sky to justify your ideology against others who are different. Read the old testament. Same shit, different box.

Ho hum... I think he mostly used the Brownshirts at home and the principles of blitzkrieg abroad to justify his ideology against those who were different?

Maybe he invoked the 'bubble in the sky' in the form of 'Destiny'...

I'm not sure he's a suitable candidate for beatification though?

Hmmm, sounds like Bush&co

Scarry sounds like Bush&Co

Don't we wish it sounded like Bush!!

Above all, he has no ideology apart from Concervatism, which is certainly NOT based on christian principles.

Godless

LOL - Did Hitler ever choke on a pretzel, or fall off his bike I wonder?

 

[Cris]

DD,

I agree to some extent but that Hitler appeared to significantly confuse what we might call the “true Christian spirit” doesn’t dilute the truth that many of his actions were inspired by the irrationality of religious beliefs. There should be no doubt that in his warped mind the attempt to exterminate the Jews was inspired by the Jesus concept.

Remember also that the same concept inspired the barbarisms of the inquisition and the crusades.

As for politicians: I strongly suspect that even here in the USA that many politicians may be closet unbelievers but they know that any hint that they lack belief in a god would mean they would never be elected. Interestingly I understand from one of my Canadian friends that in Canada the reverse occurs; if a politician overtly expresses a belief in a god then they wouldn’t get elected. I believe most of Europe is similar to that.

But whatever Hitler was and believed his successes depended a great deal on his armies and people believing they had God on their side. WWII was not a war fought by godless atheists on either side but a war between Christians. Like the modern American absurdity of having “In God we Trust” on their currency all German soldiers had “God With Us” on every belt buckle.

How ever you want to view this, Christian inspired beliefs played a major factor in the atrocities of WWII. This is the irrationality of religion and why it is a danger to humanity.

 

[Cris]

Lawdog,

They hate me because in their minds I somehow embody what they deem as ignorance borne of religious superstition.

I think it is more that you are unable to distinguish between such superstitions and reality that make your view so atrocious.

What they dont understand is that its not necessarily a reality (death heavan, Hell, Purgatory, etc) that I or God or the saints particularly like or enjoy, its just the way it is and God can and will do nothing to change it.

The very worrying issue here is that you appear to completely believe this fantasy and are so totally consumed by your indoctrination that you are quite unable to see its absurdity. That there are so many like you that are so twisted is very disturbing.

 

[Lawdog]

I must repeat: this is not indoctrination for me. I chose this position completely based on my own intellectual and philosophical quest which began with Plato. Before that I was a pagan/new ager. God then brought me to a point of spiritual depth, conversion.

You also can obtain this hated wisdom: just keep praying about it.

 

[Cris]

Lawdog,

OK, so I am curious as to the line of voluntary reasoning you adopted that would make you choose Catholicism. You do not appear unintelligent, you have some academic ability, but I don't feel you have any scientific background, probably more like the arts or humanities. I suspect you've caught onto religion because of a strong emotional appeal rather than any reasoned argument presented by past philosophers, although what you've read there may have tipped the balance, or you've seen a spark of justfication for your emotional need.

So what brought you to Catholicicm? I doubt it was purely your own choice without any peer or family pressure. I hope you won't answer - because God chose that path for you. Whether you believe that or not there would still be the voluntary choice made by you.

 

[Lawdog]

My mother is Catholic. So I was babtized as a babe. My parents however did not pressure me to become the theology-steroid-injected Catholic that I have become. My mother did not even know much formal theology. They made it clear to me that I was free to believe as I wished. In my twenties I dabbled in paganism and the occult. I was much more interested in the wisdom of the ancient pagans than in the Church fathers.

At one point I got involved in a New-ish age therapy-warrior cult for men and it jumped started me into exploring spiritual realities beyond the merely intellectual domain.

I started going to Church again because I felt that i had become a Warlock, and that this was displeasing to Jesus. The priest told me that nmty involvement in the group was ok as long as I didnt summon any spirits.

The warrior-cult had taught me to be accountable. I determined to go to Church every Sunday and to follow the laws of God as best I could.

I also developed a keen hatred for liberalism, especially Catholic Liberalism which has emasculated and undermined our faith. They are the opponents more than any atheist could be.

 

[Godless]

I must repeat: this is not indoctrination for me. I chose this position completely based on my own intellectual and philosophical quest which began with Plato.

Well that figures.

Platonism 101

Godless

 

[Lawdog]

Well that figures.
Platonism 101
Godless

The platonic tradition that many these days are eager to reject, a tradition of pure logic and argument, think of Meno's slave. That method is intrinsically systematic. Different possible routes out of chaos. Clinging to Hegelian logic, arbitrary elements within that. Hegelianism as essentially Catholic and counter reformation, introducing a mysterious priestlike authority. Mantle which has now fallen on Derrida and others

Godless, why do you, or whoever wrote this, think that Catholicism is 'essentially Hegelian"?

interesting notes, perhaps i can use them, although I already know all about Plato's flaws. The real demon is Aristotle!

 

[Diogenes' Dog]

DD,

I agree to some extent but that Hitler appeared to significantly confuse what we might call the “true Christian spirit” doesn’t dilute the truth that many of his actions were inspired by the irrationality of religious beliefs. There should be no doubt that in his warped mind the attempt to exterminate the Jews was inspired by the Jesus concept.

Remember also that the same concept inspired the barbarisms of the inquisition and the crusades.

As for politicians: I strongly suspect that even here in the USA that many politicians may be closet unbelievers but they know that any hint that they lack belief in a god would mean they would never be elected. Interestingly I understand from one of my Canadian friends that in Canada the reverse occurs; if a politician overtly expresses a belief in a god then they wouldn’t get elected. I believe most of Europe is similar to that.

But whatever Hitler was and believed his successes depended a great deal on his armies and people believing they had God on their side. WWII was not a war fought by godless atheists on either side but a war between Christians. Like the modern American absurdity of having “In God we Trust” on their currency all German soldiers had “God With Us” on every belt buckle.

How ever you want to view this, Christian inspired beliefs played a major factor in the atrocities of WWII. This is the irrationality of religion and why it is a danger to humanity.

The Nazis would use anything that helped their soldiers morale. Western culture is rooted in Christianity, which meant that some ordinary soldiers may have fought better believing God was on his side. That doesn't mean the Nazis held christian principles or that Hitler was a christian. It is perhaps significant that the SS and the brownshirts had no such logo on their buckles!

Hitler may have used many of the same psychological techniques that religion uses, and tapped into the same basic human drives. However, I would argue that those drives exist as part of our human nature. In the absence of strong and benign religious beliefs, those same drives can be exploitated for ruthless political ends. Examples are many - Pol Pot, Lenin, Stalin and I would argue also Hitler.