actor Charlie Sheen questions '9/11'

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duendy said:
HOW can it be disrespectful??
Do you not know the disrespect SHOWN to the families of lost ones BY theoffical fukers?not allowing them an INVESTIGATIOn ...proper INQUIRY into the evnts?!

and you like therestof thedupes just IGNOREavailable evidence, testimony, mathematical calulation, scientific demonstration-----all of which is THEbiggest fukin insult, not ONLY to people who have lost loved ones in tose terrible events, but to ALL people

what i find so fukin sad is....look at me. at thisso-caled science forum, many of whom are constantly berating people for evidence to jutisfy their being here, and yet tese same ones who do, cannot be even ARSED to really even LOOK at evidence in serious MANNER, AND ABSORB IT IF THEY DO.....AND THE FACT IT SEEMS REALLY TO BE ONLY ME SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THIS IN PERSON HERE, WHILST REST IS APTHathy and one or two like you comin outta the woodwork wit insubstantial crap and accusation, which i find offensive too

i feel very fukin strongly about this, so dont imply i have no respect for victims of 9/11. OK?
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I think everyone needs to seriously consider duendy's point. We don't know everything that went down on 9/11 and our government lied to us about alot of things. They lied about who was responsible for the attack. Even to this day, we don't know who was responsible. This makes everyone bound to speculate on the matter. Although it is really scary to entertain the though; alot of people believe that the government is responsible. And why not? There isn't any evidence to the contrary but it is easy to dig up evidence and speculate. Did the bin laden really deny his involvement in 9/11 directly after the attacks so eloquently? No one would remember. Our country has no history. People in the US don't remember what happened more than a few months ago. If you live in a country with no history, it's easy to lie and tell people what this history was. This is what bin laden really say...they can tell us. One day Iraq is harboring terroist and has weapons of mass destruction and the next it's something else. If no one remembers, it really makes no difference now does it? What if the people who really documented our history, save all the recordings, and wrote down our history are the only ones with a clue about what is going on? They would be the enemy of a government that relied on everyone forgetting. Who can say if they are right or wrong? Are you keeping track of history and who said what? Who do you trust to give you the facts? Do you trust the government? If you watched V for Vendetta, you'll see this whole scenario extremely exaggeratted on the big screen.
 
Communist Hamster said:
No history? Are you mad?
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I am not talking about history like the civil war and world war II. I am not talking about a history book that you read in class. I'm talking about the dissemination of truthful information to the public which people then remember. I'm talking about readily access to truthful information about what the US has done a month ago. History is unbiased, factual, honest, and accompanied with dates. Having what happened written down in a time magazine or the newspaper is not enough. People throw newspapers and magazines away; and these things are hardly unbiased. No, history has to be within the people. If we cannot remember what has happened and recollect facts or what has taken place, then we, the people, have no history. The simple fact is that when one is bombarded with lies, hundreds of versions of what happened, and and a daily anouncement of threats that are going to heppen, one finds it difficult to keep track of the past. For example, who did the government say was responsible for 9/11. I've almost forgotten already! What will it say in my kids history book in the chapter, "The beginnings of the War on Terror."
 
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"What happened a few months ago" is usually considered current events, and can be looked up on wikipedia or indeed anywhere on the internet. To claim there is no written recordings of such events is ridiculous.

Also, history is written by people (historians), in the short term. Why is Time less reputable than historians?
 
Communist Hamster said:
"What happened a few months ago" is usually considered current events, and can be looked up on wikipedia or indeed anywhere on the internet. To claim there is no written recordings of such events is ridiculous.

Also, history is written by people (historians), in the short term. Why is Time less reputable than historians?
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Because Time and different news organizations are commercial. They provide different interpretations of what happens. History is unbiased. Just because something is on wikipedia doesn't mean that it is being read and that it is within us. Events are being written down, but we a living in such a way that history has very little value to us. This is why I say we have no history. If a great historian writes a book about the diasaster that happened in Cuba at the hands of the US and posts excerpts of it on wikipedia, it doesn't mean that you've suddenly got history. It has to be within you. How are you going to behave differently knowing what happened in the past? Can you articulate it? Can you say for sure what really happened? Very few americans even remember what happened in cuba, iraq in the 80's, or libya although these things are relatively recent. Just because it is written down doesn't mean you have history.
 
I see your point. Now that we've established what would appear to be the problem, how would you suggest that these current events be recorded?
 
leopold99 said:
osama bin laden
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No, actually they said Al Queda was responisble. Osama was like their maskot. The fact that he is incredibly rich didn't hurt and he was making this chilling videos. But then they said Iraq was harboring the terroist and when the hunt for Osama stopped, it seemed like we were holding Iraq responsible (not to mention their WMD's). So who was responsible? Iraq, Osama, or Al queda? Or was it the people we fought in Afganistan? If osama was responsible, why did the bin laden family leave the US after the attacks?

That's what I mean about having no history. We knew why we fought in the civil war and WW I. No one can say why we fought in Afganistan. It's almost like it never happened.
 
We fought in Afghanistan to kill Osama Bin Laden and abolish the training centers and support network of Al Quida, also to disband the Taliban that were helping them. Kalid Sheik Mohammed planned 9/11, and he's in custody somewhere unpleasant.
 
What's the evidence that Al Quida as an organisation exists at all?
I have the impression that those are just a bunch of terrorists who all like to chant "kill the amerikana",
and that's the only thing that unites them, and on occasion they help each other out.
But for the ease of use the USA calls them all Al Quida.

btw, that's a honest question for which I'd like to hear an answer, I simply don't know about such evidence existing and would like to know.
 
Communist Hamster said:
I see your point. Now that we've established what would appear to be the problem, how would you suggest that these current events be recorded?
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Well, it's hard. I think for one thing we've got to slow down in the US. Life is at such a fast pace in the big city it is impossible to keep up with everything. We really have to rely on the news and our journalist who get paid to keep track of what's going on. The news...as you know, they rarely provide anything more than a few fast clips of all the horrible things happening in the world. It makes it hard, in my opinion, to remember anything they talked about the previous day no matter how valueable what they had to so was. They need to slow down.

We have to be able to trust our government. They are really where we get most of our information about what is going on in the outside world (CIA,FBI,etc). The average person has very limited knowledge about what really goes on around the world. If they give us false information or provide no information at all, then we have nothing more to remember than the images of bombs on television.

Lastly, we are living in a state of perpetual war right now. That is the biggest obstacle to the public. I am sometimes nervous when I take bart to work. If it were up to me, we'd stop fighting wars and start reflecting on where we've been and where we are.

As you can see, I really don't have the answers. But I see alot of obstacles in ones way to achieving this goal.
 
very ,uch dig what artimosi is saying...reallly. it is a subjeect in itself. altho--if i misunderstand him, he is saying history---offical history is trustworthy...well no, i dontbeliece that at ll. we dont learn about real history in schools we read carefully contrived 'history' which suits status fukin quo. black people, andthe marginalized, know this!

But this is too much cmplex to branch off into here. if you will we is focuing ON history. real history of past events that are being dismissed, ridiculed, ignored, denied, distorted, and so on. which is really not good. in fact from my view, is disgusting

dont know who cetain mindsets can kind o filter shit out,really dont. i am human justlike you. you ASSUMEi have genda. i was as shocked as you may have been. i saqw it all too. and was inspired to investigate bout it which i initiatd here to do to.
But i resent people here coming out wit lame defences when they do NOT even take seriously the links i am giving. actually dont believe you are even bothering to look at them. can tell how you reply etc

so i ask myself. whats going on with you. and whats going on with the disinterested here tat seem to avoid tis prominet tread like the fukin plague

dont ccare what ypu say. are you boooored,
what what? have the guts to share what ypu feel?
 
spidergoat said:
We fought in Afghanistan to kill Osama Bin Laden and abolish the training centers and support network of Al Quida, also to disband the Taliban that were helping them. Kalid Sheik Mohammed planned 9/11, and he's in custody somewhere unpleasant.
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If that was our purpose in afganistan, wouldn't osama be dead by now? I mean, how long were they there? How many afgani's died in the war? I haven't heard any figures. One man cannot plan an attack like 9/11, can they? It's always easy to find a scape goat. All you need is someone with a long and hard to pronounce arabic name. Have we been given any proof or anything conclusive saying what was accomplished in afganistan and what it had to do with 9/11? What about the casualties and the effects on the poor country of afganistan? The women, children, and homes?
 
Avatar said:
What's the evidence that Al Quida as an organisation exists at all?
I have the impression that those are just a bunch of terrorists who all like to chant "kill the amerikana",
and that's the only thing that unites them, and on occasion they help each other out.
But for the ease of use the USA calls them all Al Quida.

btw, that's a honest question for which I'd like to hear an answer, I simply don't know about such evidence existing and would like to know.
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You won't hear an answer. No one knows who was responsible. No one truly knows who Al Quida is. It sounds scary though, doesn't. Like someone I wouldn't want to mess with.
 
I think that generally the war in Afghanistan has been (intentionally or not) for the good of the people who were freed from the hardocre fundamentalists' rule and the life is slowly returning to its' original norm. At least that's the picture I get from reading an occasional BBC newsreport from the region.
 
Avatar said:
I think that generally the war in Afghanistan has been (intentionally or not) for the good of the people who were freed from the hardocre fundamentalists' rule and the life is slowly returning to its' original norm. At least that's the picture I get from reading an occasional BBC newsreport from the region.
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I haven't heard anything of real substance on that. I hope that's the case though :). The hardcore fundamentalist are probably gone. That's a definitine positive outcome.
 
Avatar said:
I think that generally the war in Afghanistan has been (intentionally or not) for the good of the people who were freed from the hardocre fundamentalists' rule and the life is slowly returning to its' original norm. At least that's the picture I get from reading an occasional BBC newsreport from the region.
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it was/is BASED ON LIES, and has caused utter horror for the pople, many of whom HAD suffered under the fundamenalists. But you do NOT 'help' people--you plonker--by going and battering them and melting them with your 'video-games' war evil machines you 'wanna try out' and pollute te environment and beyond with DEPLETED URANIUM!....to YOU that be 'help' to me and am sure to many there and generations to come it is more HELL!
 
Avatar said:
bla bla bla, but world goes on and the rabble follows

meanwhile you can read more about the situation inAfghanistan here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/south_asia/2004/afghanistan/default.stm
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yer seem to be doing a lot of 'bla bla bla'ing lately AV, you not losing the powerof speech is you?
you know....hmmmm your bravenewworld Afghanistan that te darlin ever so caring neo cons and blair ites down gone and liberrrraTED from the nasty nasty dictator
cause he was soooooooo mean and bad. maaaaaybe soon they will be a sparkling DEMOCRACY))))))and can stage their OWN atrocities and take peoples freedoms away and wage illegal wars......ahhhhhhhhhhhh
and they all lived happily ever after hey AV

NOW....can we get this thread back to reality, an subject please..??
 
yer seem to be doing a lot of 'bla bla bla'ing lately AV, you not losing the powerof speech is you?
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nah, it's not worth replying in depth to you,
besides I can't be bothered with that now, have to study, you see,
and it's not that you can do anything about Afghanistan anyway
 
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