Yellow Jacket
Registered Senior Member
correction "pro choice" not prolife, sorry folks
I must be misunderstanding much here. Pro-choice is the decision whether or not to continue with the pregnancy or to abort. One would hope though, during the emotional time a woman learns she is pregnant that she is fully informed of ALL options and makes careful decisions. Those decisions though, should include the father.
Oh no, I said it. Why? Because both decided to have sex. The fetus or zygote or however you want to look at it, is equally his as it is hers. Does she have to carry it? Yep. No one can change that fact. But if the sperm donor wants to take on responsibility for creating this life, the father should have that opportunity.
For those who have children, that would be like a doctor performing medical procedures on your 5 or 15 year old child without prior consent or knowledge. How would you feel? Violated, upset? What gives the right for one parent to make the decision and not the other. She opened her legs too, suffer the consequences.
Of course in the case of rape or medical emergency, then the father shouldn't have a choice or fight the decision.
Also interesting that here, instead keeping objective, I see some that like to take jabs and use sarcastic tones, accusing others of doing the same as they are. I thought this was a science forum, not a "beat down others until they agree with me" forum.
Also interesting that here, instead keeping objective, I see some that like to take jabs and use sarcastic tones, accusing others of doing the same as they are. I thought this was a science forum, not a "beat down others until they agree with me" forum.
Bells you might find this interesting:
These authors surveyed 1,000 men in 30 abortion clinics across the United States and followed up with postabortion interviews involving 75 of those men. The persistence of occasional thoughts about the fetus was evident among the majority of post abortion men interviewed. Less than one third of the men reported having no thoughts about the fetus and 9% reported having frequent thoughts.
In addition, the men were observed to suffer from ambivalence as evidenced by the fact that while "39% believed the fetus was a human life, and 26% felt that abortion was the killing of a child, 83% did not want abortion outlawed" (p. 38). In fact, "only 15% believed the fetus was not human until birth and ... as many as 60% were troubled by the irrevocable ending of the life they had helped set in motion" (p. 162). Of those men surveyed, 11% stated that they were opposed to their partners' decision to abort and were described as experiencing a very profound sense of personal loss.
http://www.menandabortion.info/l0-research.html
Note the ambivalence.
Thank You.
As you can see, this choice carries weight.
It's not something to be taken lightly.
That's all I have been trying to say!
In spite of Bells insistence that I must be Pro Life and describing me as such repeatedly, her stance is that it's a "Thing"
Fine. That's HER opinion. It doesn't mean others MUST adhere to that or suffer character assassination or repetative brow beating and inaccurate claims.
And what if they don't agree? What if she wants to abort and he is opposed? Who gets the final decision? Most men know the woman is going to have an abortion anyway and quite often also pay for it but that's besides the point. If the guy isn't in the picture at all it really doesn't matter what he thinks but its unlikely a woman in a relationship will abort without letting her mate know she is pregnant.
Ha! I can see you won't stick around for long
If you want objective science then I suggest you stick to the forums that are strictly science all the rest is just a wrestling match with a lot of eye poking and ear biting.
At least not as a sock-puppet...[Regards YellowJacket]: Ha! I can see you won't stick around for long
Yellow Jacket said:OOPS, she gets pregnant.....it gives her the right to screw over the father in his choice if he wants to raise the child?
but if one is factoring in the mother's probability to experience difficulty (as in the difficulty that living in this world accommodates) as sufficient for getting rid of the child, the moral scales are out of whack .... which may warrant a further investigation of the social structure that normalizes such an act (as opposed to sending in the tanks)
Do I think abortion can one day be made illegal? Yes, as anything can be made illegal given the right political party at any given time. Others have tried and failed in the past and they will continue to try in the present and the future.
In other words, why should you have a say over a woman's reproductive rights?
...the woman has to carry the child for 9 months, so she should have the ultimate decision.
You got that right. We can try to be "responsible", but we evolved to have sex. Everything about us is geared towards reproduction, so we are at the mercy of hormones. We should be responsible, but all too often we are not, especially if we are young and inexperienced. No amount of whining about responsibility is going to make people more responsible. So, we often have to kill our offspring before they mature enough to where it becomes an ethical dilemma. Evolution did not anticipate a time when children would become a liability to society rather than an asset. Most children in the past died in childbirth or soon after. We were meant to have more than necessary.
A man invests several minutes in the act, the woman invests many months, and it's growing inside her, so she gets to choose.
Exactly. Nowadays, one often cannot afford to act morally without seriously endangering one's basic survival.
For example, it is a growing trend to add a stipulation to a woman's job contract that she agrees that her employment be terminated if she chooses to become a mother. Although this is generally illegal, it is happening.
@Yellow Jacket, I'd love to hear this reasoning that means that being responsible = having the child. I'd say having a child you don't want, adding another child to a world that has already too many of them that need caring for, is grossly irresponsible.
And he can have a choice when medical science comes up with some way to remove the embryo or zygote from her body and implant it into him, and he can be pregnant instead of her. Until then, since she has to carry the thing inside her, it's her choice.