Abortion

[Tiassa]

For you pro-choicer's, should selling of organs be legal? How about the sale of fetuses? If no, why not? How about prostitution? Should suicide be made legal? Should doctors perform it if the person wants to? And not just because of old age or sickness, this is important, for any reason at all?

Organs, maybe. Fetuses ... dead ones? What the hell for?

Prostitution, yes. Assisted suicide/euthanasia? Yes.

Look, money doesn't mean you "deserve" a donor organ faster than anyone else. Take your place in line and hope for the best. And selling fetuses ... um ... sure. I just don't see the point. D&C and vacuum destroy the fetus. Saline damages it. A Caesarean-section abortion seems a little extreme, but I'm sure if you try hard enough you can invent a fantasy for us.

 

[rjr6]

Why maybe on the organs?

 

[iceaura]

The lesser of two evils is a cowards argument.

The greatest of several evils is the devil's argument. It is based on pride.

“ Never mind the "murdering a human being" stuff, as your repetition of the phrase has yet to convince anyone that you actually believe that. ”

The fertilized egg is human life.

So are your earlobe cells. Weasel wording is a coward's technique. It isn't a baby, and you apparently (as we assumed) know that.

 

[rjr6]

The greatest of several evils is the devil's argument. It is based on pride.

?

So are your earlobe cells. Weasel wording is a coward's technique. It isn't a baby, and you apparently (as we assumed) know that.

Okay. You can use the term baby, infant, fertilized egg or whatever you are comfortable with, just as long as you recognize the truth, that we are talking about HUMAN LIFE. And your earlobe has more rights under the law than these defenseless, prescious beings.

 

[Repo Man]

You do realize that in vitro fertilization involves fertilizing many eggs (HUMAN LIFE!11!), and disposing of the leftover ones (KILLING BABIES!!11!!) after one has successfully implanted itself in the uterus? It's a safe assumption that you want this procedure banned, along with the birth control pill, Plan B, and RU486 as well as surgical abortion? You're hopefully aware that such an extreme position puts you in a tiny minority, with no hope of bringing your legislative goals to fruition?

 

[John99]

Poor people, third worlders and religious fanatics spawn astronomically. Think about what the future will bring. I am not necessarily making a judgment on intelligence here but...100 years from now it will be like Mad Max.

 

[iceaura]

just as long as you recognize the truth, that we are talking about HUMAN LIFE. And your earlobe has more rights under the law than these defenseless, prescious beings.

It does not, as you well know. And fertilized eggs aren't beings, precious or otherwise, as you well know also.

Or are you confusing your rhetoric with some kind of argument - Does your church cemetary have lots of little graves for the miscarriages, or is it just another self-deceiving fundie cult ?

The greatest of several evils is the devil's argument. It is based on pride. ”

?

What's the mystery ? Your religion-based abuse of women does not prevent abortion, and attempts to at the cost of institutionalized dishonesty and much harm. And you base these lying wrongs on your apparently infallible insight into the nture of human life and God's opinions, which you intend to back with armed governmental force against individual women.

 

[q0101]

well, how convenient. "I'll get you pregnant, but if I don't want the baby, I get to walk away free and clear"
who's living in a dream land??

I would never have vaginal sex with a woman that wasn’t willing to have an abortion if the condom broke or if the birth control didn’t work. I would support the child financially if she decided to keep the child after telling me that she would abort it, but I couldn’t have a relationship with a woman that betrayed me like that.

 

[Orleander]

I would never have vaginal sex with a woman that wasn’t willing to have an abortion if the condom broke or if the birth control didn’t work. I would support the child financially if she decided to keep the child after telling me that she would abort it, but I couldn’t have a relationship with a woman that betrayed me like that.

betrayed you? A condom breaks but she decides she can't do it and its a betrayal of YOU! Its not about YOU.

This is something you actually talk about before sex? What a mood killer. LOL, guess you better stick to the non-vaginal anal sex then.

 

[q0101]

For you pro-choicer's, should selling of organs be legal?

Yes, and I think it could become legal when we perfect the science of using stem cells to grow them in labs.

How about the sale of fetuses?

Yes as long as they are dead. However, I would support the idea of creating a human life for the sole purpose of scientific research, as long as the child was incapable of feeling pain. For example, imagining a scenario where a fetus is grown in a womb or some kind of maturation chamber. When it is 9 month old it could be hooked up to a machine (intravenous drugs or TMS) that would block all incoming sensory to its brain. The body would then continue to grow in a lab without any consciousness.

How about prostitution?

Yes.

Should suicide be made legal?

Yes.

 

[q0101]

betrayed you? A condom breaks but she decides she can't do it and its a betrayal of YOU! Its not about YOU.

How is it not about me if I am the child's father? She has the right to keep the child if she wants to, but if she lies to me then she is is betraying me.

 

[Orleander]

Because maybe a person changes their mind when they find they are carrying a baby. Its completely self-absorbed to think of it as a betrayal of you if she wants to keep it.
I suggest celibacy.

 

[q0101]

I had a feeling that this thread was going to turn into another long debate with the usual arguments from both sides. Having a debate about the ethical issues of abortion is usually pointless because the people that are pro-life or pro-choice are rarely willing to change their opinions about the topic regardless of what is said in the debate. I don’t believe that this debate is really about women’s rights and protecting the lives of unborn children. If you are willing to look beneath the surface and think about all of the arguments in an objective way you should realize that this debate is really about biology, social programming, and a clash between different cultures and ideologies.

It is not difficult to understand why the tribal leaders of the past and present would create laws to protect the lives of unborn children. Human beings have a natural instinct to protect and care for children. The instinctual behaviour in women is mostly derived from the high levels of oxytocin that can be found in pregnant and nursing mothers. Oxytocin can also be found in men, but I believe that testosterone plays a greater role in giving men the desire to protect the lives of unborn children. High testosterone levels can give some men the desire to control every aspect of a woman’s life. Think about the roles that women have played in society since the birth of Christianity and Islam. It is obvious that the religious leaders of the various Christian and Muslim sects were influenced by the testosterone flowing through their veins. We are still living in a world where a large percentage of men believe that god created women to satisfy men’s sexual desires and give birth to children. The idea of a woman making her own decisions and following her own path in life is very offensive to some of the men that belong to the various religious sects that exist today.

Evangelical Christians are one of the largest religious sects that exist in the U.S.A. It is probably the same group that Sandy belongs to. She called herself a born again Christian in an previous post. It is easy to understand why She would have a problem with abortions. She has the biological programming to care about children, and she has been socially programmed to believe that abortion is wrong. Madanthonywayne seems to fit into a similar group that Sandy belongs to. I used the word “similar” because not all of these people are religious, although most of them are. Madanthonywayne would probably use the words “pro-life” to describe himself when he is talking about abortions, but I prefer to use different words to describe people like him. I like to call them the pro-misery group. I am talking about the majority of the people in the U.S.A that call themselves Republicans or conservatives. I believe that their ideology is mostly about conserving the ignorance of humanity and spreading misery. Think about how ridiculous it is for them to describe themselves being pro-life. Pro-miserable existence would be more accurate. They’re pro-war, pro-death penalty, pro-life without parole, anti-rehabilitation, and anti-universal healthcare. I just have to wonder if people like Madanthonywayne ever think about all of the neglected and abused children that have a higher probability of being a criminal by the time they become an adult. Does he ever think about the children that could have been aborted instead of being executed? But I can’t really be upset with people like him because we are all victims of bad social programming.

 

[q0101]

I suggest celibacy.

That is why I am a big fan of oral sex.

 

[rjr6]

What's the mystery ? Your religion-based abuse of women does not prevent abortion, and attempts to at the cost of institutionalized dishonesty and much harm. And you base these lying wrongs on your apparently infallible insight into the nture of human life and God's opinions, which you intend to back with armed governmental force against individual women.

Not sure what is being said here. I am going to refrain from a response right now.

 

[rjr6]

Yes, and I think it could become legal when we perfect the science of using stem cells to grow them in labs.



Yes as long as they are dead. However, I would support the idea of creating a human life for the sole purpose of scientific research, as long as the child was incapable of feeling pain. For example, imagining a scenario where a fetus is grown in a womb or some kind of maturation chamber. When it is 9 month old it could be hooked up to a machine (intravenous drugs or TMS) that would block all incoming sensory to its brain. The body would then continue to grow in a lab without any consciousness.



Yes.



Yes.

Thanks for your answers.

 

[pjdude1219]

i say we should abort 50% of all babies

 

[Chatha]

I don't think life begins at conception either, thats hipocracy. Life truely begins when the individual identifies itself, which is probably around 8 months to a year old after birth.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion.

According to my wife, no one should even read beyond your first sentence because you are male. To quote her and clean up her language a little for a public forum, "I'll give a flying fuck what men think about abortion the first time one of you assholes gets pregnant."

Listen to Orleander, Sandy, and any other members here who are female. The rest of us should simply shut up.

 

[Orleander]

I don't think life begins at conception either, thats hipocracy. Life truely begins when the individual identifies itself, which is probably around 8 months to a year old after birth.

a year after birth?? that's insane.