Isn't there a precedence?
Abortion in Islam
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
Isn't there a precedence?
Maybe, but I am not familiar with one.
None?
Abortion is not common in Muslims, especially at a stage considered as wilful intent to kill.
OK Sam. I'll let you argue with John for a bit now.
Good discussion. Thanks.
No problem. I'm just confused about what you are confused about.
I don't know, I'm basing it on available information
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/mapworldabrate.html
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_abo_percap-health-abortions-per-capita
And that chart, and the other site you supplied, had nothing whatsoever to do with religious faith.
You, Sam, were the one that stated the abortion is not common in Muslim nations/faith. I could make exactly the same statement for any religion on Earth .........but does it mean anything? Fuck no!!
Baron Max
Of course it didn't mention statistics by religion, but considering the middle east is nearly full of Muslims entirely, that section of the chart can be used to consider abortion rates amongst Muslims to a fairly accurate level.
Personally, as a Muslim, I think abortion should not be allowed, except in the unfortunate circumstance of rape, or any other extraordinarily rare exception that I cannot think of this very moment.
Good thing God was an expert in reproductive law. You do have to wonder why he aborts so many babies, though.
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I have worked in India, the ME and the US; in places where there were people of many faiths. In all three places I have not yet come across a Muslim who wanted an abortion in the last 15 years.:shrug:
Its not common to see a Muslim woman/man who chooses abortion, most of them either use contraception or prefer to have the child if there is a pregnancy. In five years in Saudi Arabia, the only fetal death I have seen is due to miscarriage or accident. And even then, they kept the fetus in the refrigerator and buried it in a mat. Some of the men even had 40 children!
Zak could tell us if he knows of any Muslims who have opted for one. I know of some who have, for health reasons, but they considered it a murder, not a choice.
So, ....of the gazillions of Muslims in the world, how many did you actually talk to enough to know that they didn't want an abortion? 10? 100? 1,000? 10,000? ........so, what's the percentage of Muslims that you know personally in all of the gazillions of Muslims?
Baron Max
Its not common to see a Muslim woman/man who chooses abortion, most of them either use contraception or prefer to have the child if there is a pregnancy. In five years in Saudi Arabia, the only fetal death I have seen is due to miscarriage or accident. And even then, they kept the fetus in the refrigerator and buried it in a mat. Some of the men even had 40 children!
Zak could tell us if he knows of any Muslims who have opted for one. I know of some who have, for health reasons, but they considered it a murder, not a choice.
I agree. I've spent time in Turkey, and I have relatives in Iraq and Qatar who have never seen any Muslim have an abortion. It isn't entirely religious though, but perhaps more cultural, considering the Christians and Jews in the Middle East have low abortion rates as well. Perhaps the low abortion rates is part religious, part cultural.
I am more inclined to believe that a Muslim in North America would be more open to the idea of abortion to that of a Middle Eastern Muslim.
It's not common with any other religion on Earth, Sam!! Why can't you see that?? Or are you being "Muslim-faith blinded"? ...your religion is better than all of the other religions?
Baron Max
Possibly, you may be right. I consider myself very liberal, but after having witnessed an abortion, I can safely say that unless I it was a medical emergency or necessity, I would not consider one myself.
I have no judgement attached to it; its an observation; I think everyone should decide if they want the responsibility of a child themselves, that is better than bringing unwanted children into the world.
I have no desire at present for a child, but if I were to get pregnant by circumstance, I would change my mind immediately. That is my choice, it need not be everybody's.
Then there have been no schisms within Christianity, either - merely sects that attempt to kill each other, and large groups dismissed as "heretics", and so forth.SAM said:
Now in another thread you described abortion as taking place "placidly" and without undue fuss in many Islamic countries.SAM said:
SAM said:
That map shows many large white areas where abortion statistics - and accurate health statistics generally - are not available.Kadark said:
Almost all human cultures have recognized means of abortion. Thailand and Indonesia, for example - white on the map - have many traditional healers who can supply abortifacients. To conclude that abortion is not found in areas where it is not reported is naive. Abortion has always been common - at least common enough for recognised means to be available - in most human cultures - it requires a truly severe or oppressive authoritarian setup to banish it in reality.
Most non-barrier forms of contraception cause abortion, at least occasionally. If that matters.SAM said:
Control of the sexual behavior of women is one of the core supports of fundie, patriarchal, theistic, religions. If you allow women to have abortions, you lose a significant source of leverage on their behavior. So we see that in SAM's posts, Muslim "men/women" do not choose abortion. How would a Muslim man choose or not choose abortion?