Abortion in Islam

S.A.M. said:
What would you consider a reputable source? The Al-Azhar university is the premier religious university in the Islamic world, and they recognise both Shia and Sunni schools of thought.
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Yes,
but I asked you to quote a source which said that it wasn't a major schism. I've not heard of this university before,
but I'll accept it as authoritive on your say-so.

If you can find a quote from them which says that the disagreement between the Shias and the Sunnis is not a major schism, I will accept it.

I look forward to your reference referring me to the text from the Al-Azhar university which presents this unusual argument.

Under the current attack from the West, these people may find that they have more in common than what devides them, much as is happening with Christians of the less sectarian kind.
 
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S.A.M.

A cultural difference that many Westerners do not understand is that, unlike Christianity, in which orthodoxy is the defining element of faith, Islam is orthopraxic. It is important to keep this particular lack in mind when dealing with Western inquiries about Islam. Many people simply fail to understand the difference, and more so the significance.
 
Chris Cremin said:
Yes,
but I asked you to quote a source which said that it wasn't a major schism. I've not heard of this university before,
but I'll accept it as authoritive on your say-so.

If you can find a quote from them which says that the disagreement between the Shias and the Sunnis is not a major schism, I will accept it.

I look forward to your reference referring me to the text from the Al-Azhar university which presents this unusual argument.
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Take your pick

http://www.google.com/search?q=al-a...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
 
Tiassa said:
S.A.M.

A cultural difference that many Westerners do not understand is that, unlike Christianity, in which orthodoxy is the defining element of faith, Islam is orthopraxic. It is important to keep this particular lack in mind when dealing with Western inquiries about Islam. Many people simply fail to understand the difference, and more so the significance.
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There are many things about Muslims that some Westerners do not understand. They repeatedly assign their own motivations and objectives to them and then are puzzled when they still cannot figure out what went wrong. :p

PS I learned a new word today, thanks.

Ok I looked it up, how does orthopraxy define Islam?
 
Chris Cremin said:
Yes, I thought you'd refer me to an outside source.
Make your own arguments with sources as confirmation.
I did say "find a quote".
And the quote should show "no schism" rather than agreements on many points.

Please put orthopraxy in Linguistics word for the day.
I'll check it there.
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Here is the original declaration; make of it what you will. :shrug:

http://www.al-islam.org/ENCYCLOPEDIA/chapter1b/azhar-e.gif

http://www.al-islam.org/ENCYCLOPEDIA/chapter1b/azhar-a.gif
 
S.A.M. said:
I'm saying there was no religious schism.
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So find a quotation from a reputable source which agrees with you.
Saying there was no major schism in the Muslim religion is like saying there was no major schism in the Christian religion. It's nonsense.
 
Chris Cremin said:
So find a quotation from a reputable source which agrees with you.
Saying there was no major schism in the Muslim religion is like saying there was no major schism in the Christian religion. It's nonsense.
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Hmm and of course, Muslims are equal to Christians.

I refer you to tiassa's excellent post on the matter and request you to kindly refrain from applying your generalisations without basis.
 
S.A.M. said:
Hmm and of course, Muslims are equal to Christians.

I refer you to tiassa's excellent post on the matter and request you to kindly refrain from applying your generalisations without basis.
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Are they not equal to Christians?
I believe that they are.
That's not a generalisation, that's the truth.
Do you feel differently?. Please explain.

Could you quote the part of Tiassa's excellent post where it is proved that there was no schism within Islam?
 
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Chris Cremin said:
Are they not equal to Christians?
I believe that they are.
That's not a generalisation, that's the truth.
Do you feel differently?. Please explain.
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Not in this matter they are not.

To be a muslim, a person need only declare the shahadah. Which school he chooses to practise his faith is a personal choice.

The shahadah:
Ash-hadu anla ilaha illal-Lahu Wahdahu la Sharika Lahu wa-ash-hadu anna Muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluhu

The English translation of the Shahadah is as follows:
I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah, the One, without any partner. And I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and His Messenger.
 
S.A.M. said:
Not in this matter they are not.

To be a muslim, a person need only declare the shahadah. Which school he chooses to practise his faith is a personal choice.

The shahadah:
Ash-hadu anla ilaha illal-Lahu Wahdahu la Sharika Lahu wa-ash-hadu anna Muhammadan abduhu wa rasuluhu

The English translation of the Shahadah is as follows:
I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship except Allah, the One, without any partner. And I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and His Messenger.
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There are always some basic beliefs left after any schism, otherwise it wouldn't be a schism.
A schism is where two similar beliefs are devided in two. When two very similar beliefs divide in two, they become a sect.

Look, if you want to believe that Islam is a single religion with no divisions , go ahead.

Do you not even believe that there are sects within Islam? What about Sufism?

You've quoted Tiassa, but still without any actual quotes, just a blind reference. Is this his opinion? What did he say?
 
Chris Cremin said:
There are always some basic beliefs left after any schism, otherwise it wouldn't be a schism.
A schism is where two similar beliefs are devided in two. When two very similar beliefs divide in two, they become a sect.

Look, if you want to believe that Islam is a single religion with no divisions , go ahead.

Do you not even believe that there are sects within Islam? What about Sufism?

You've quoted Tiassa, but still without any actual quotes, just a blind reference. Is this his opinion? What did he say?
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What do sects have to do with schisms? Has any group been thrown out of Mecca or not allowed to perform Haj? If not, then they are all Muslims.

Since tiassa has expressed only one opinion so far, it should not be very hard to find it. :rolleyes:
 
S.A.M. said:
What do sects have to do with schisms? Has any group been thrown out of Mecca or not allowed to perform Haj? If not, then they are all Muslims.

Since tiassa has expressed only one opinion so far, it should not be very hard to find it. :rolleyes:
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Sects and schisms are differences of degree.
You might as well ask what an inch has to do with a foot.
Sects are minor differences, schisms are large ones.

Re Tiassa. Yes I can find it, but What is it in his argument that you felt supported your argument. You didn't say. You keep referring me to things. Just state your arguments.

And your quotation of a reputable source which says there was no schism in Islam is?..............

Just find me one. Not a reference, a quote.
 
Sam,

Your summation seems like a logical conclusion.

There is also a money penalty for abortion even if it was inadvertent. This is called the "ghorra". If aggression or willful action causes abortion, suitable punishment by the court is also imposed.
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What is a suitable punishment?
 
Chris:
I think you are seriously confused about what Islam is. I have provided all the relevant information, but I cannot do your thinking for you. Sorry.
 
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John99 said:
Sam,

Your summation seems like a logical conclusion.



What is a suitable punishment?
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The punishment would be decided by the courts. That would depend on the motive for the abortion and the circumstances under which it was carried out.
 
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