Aboriginal child abuse and the NT Intervention

[The Marquis]

you know whats ammusing about all this, compulsory aquasition is a fact of life for everyone else, its just harder for aborigional land. If the goverment decideds they want to build a road or airport through your land tough, you only have 2 choices, sell on there terms or wait for them to compulsory aquire your land under the "just terms" provisions of the consitution. Now you say fair enough for essential public assests, why should a major nessary freeway or hospital not be built because some little old lady refuses to move but these same laws can be used to start mining if they find something they want on your land because you only own the top meter or so. Aborigionals have alot more protection from this than the rest of us do, sam talks about ensuring that all laws are equal then fine, why not make the complsory aquisition laws easier for goverment and private industry? isnt that the "fair" thing to do?

"The Castle".

Don't bother, Asguard. These things only become an issue for those like Gustav if one happens to be black.
If white, It's nothing they didn't deserve, and all quite kosher.

Racists, my ass. There is racism here, but there are two sides to every coin.
Gustav never bothered to flip the damned thing over and look at the other side, so he'll remain an idiot to the end of his days. SAM, too. Now there are two sides to the same coin.

 

[The Marquis]

Oh and by the way, Gustav.

Are you ever going to address the issue of self-determination, or has that been set aside in your little mind as being inconsequential?
I noted your complete lack of response.

 

[S.A.M.]

sam talks about ensuring that all laws are equal then fine, why not make the complsory aquisition laws easier for goverment and private industry? isnt that the "fair" thing to do?

Is that what the aboriginals want? The problem with self determination is that you don't get to decide what other people want. The problem with Australians is that they make the decisions for the aboriginals and blame them for not accepting having these decisions imposed upon them. Have the aboriginals ever been given the option of deciding whether they want to be under the civic rule of Australians?

The problem with being fair is that there should be equal opportunity at all stages of the decision making process.

 

[The Marquis]

See? Ignore whatever you don't understand, girl.

 

[The Marquis]

Here's something.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...d-crisis-deepens/story-fn59niix-1225979689867

They're ignoring the black people, of course.
Damned coons can just drown for all we care.

 

[Bells]

I think our New Australian from Africa has psychiatric issues, Feral people = Mud People?

Best be careful precious, your racism is showing its colours again. Just to rub it in some more for you, my husband is part Irish and English. Suck it up Princess.. your precious Irish white folk blood is getting polluted with "African" blood.

Have the aboriginals ever been given the option of deciding whether they want to be under the civic rule of Australians?

Self determination is not requiring permission.. Many choose to live under their tribal rules and laws, and sometimes to their detriment - one example is a whole family group having to flee to escape payback (acceptable under tribal laws) attacks after one of their family members was murdered - all this came after several riots that terrorised the whole town..

But as a society, what do we deem acceptable? What should we deem acceptable?

Do you think under the guise of self determination we should remain silent on the ritualistic beatings of young teenage girls? How about sparing another of a murder sentence because he will face tribal punishment for murdering his partner and he killed her because she apparently swore at him, which is against their tradition?

I'll be honest with you, I have a severe problem of 4 teenage girls being beaten with nulla nullas (big sticks), resulting in possible breakage of their limbs as a result of their punishment. I personally think such an action should be illegal and those who commit it should be flung in jail.. But we are supposed to accept this? Do you think if we said "no, you cannot do this", it would be imposing our decisions on them? Looking at the fate of those girls, I honestly don't give a shit if they feel imposed upon.


Mr Murray's article asks several questions that deserve answers and deserve reflection..

SSome time in the next few weeks, a group of Aboriginal adults intends taking four girls aged 13 and 14 into the Pilbara bush to beat them with sticks, violently enough that it could break their arms and legs.

One of the 13-year-old girls was the driver of a stolen car involved in a rollover near Port Hedland on February 7 that took the life of a friend the same age. The others were passengers.

Last week, members of their families living in suburban South Hedland told reporter Jessica Strutt that the surviving girls would face "payback", tribal punishment that in cases like these usually involves a beating with nulla nullas.

Several family members said the bashings would be severe enough that the girls would probably end up in hospital in Perth. One suggested spearing was a possibility.

The criminal law in Australia for many years has struggled to accommodate the concept of tribal punishment within the penalties handed down by courts.

In some cases, culturally sensitive judges and magistrates have cut sentences, usually on Aboriginal males, because of the prospect of a second penalty under tribal retribution.

But the situation facing the four Pilbara girls pushes the use of payback in a modern society over the edge of acceptability.

Would we allow this to happen to four non-Aboriginal girls? Would we sit back and accept that their families had the right to break their bones to settle grievances?

Do these four juveniles deserve the same protections under WA law that we would afford any other girls facing such threats of violence?



​

Why are we as a community accepting this because we don't want to say no and appear racist or denying Aboriginals self determination...?

How about this?

In 2008, the director of the WA Aboriginal Legal Service, Peter Collins, told the ABC's Law Report about the tribal punishment of a woman who had killed her violent boyfriend in a remote Kimberley community.

"... she was taken to the law grounds at her community, and she - again it was a public process - and she was struck repeatedly with objects called nulla nullas, which in essence are big pieces of wood, about the upper body and I think some blows connected with her head," Mr Collins said.

"So she received a quite severe physical punishment from her community for what she did, which from memory led to her hospitalisation."​

This is not acceptable. Under any stretch of the imagination. But if we prevent it or deny them the right to do it, we are called racist and accused of denying their self determination..

 

[Gustav]

Oh and by the way, Gustav.

Are you ever going to address the issue of self-determination, or has that been set aside in your little mind as being inconsequential?
I noted your complete lack of response.

allow your abos on to an even playing field first by implementing the recommendations of the united nations and other human rights orgs. once that is done and the abos still come up lacking, i'll be happy to join you racist anglos in your incessant smear campaigns

Mal Brough has a well-earned reputation for his rather 'creative' approach to facts when dealing with the media on Indigenous affairs. Who could forget his claim in 2005 that $1 million in cash - the proceeds of the sale of drugs - had been found by police in one remote Aboriginal community.

""That... million dollars... could have fed kids, built houses, all sorts of things," Brough told the John Laws breakfast radio program.

It certainly could have... if it had ever existed.

The $1 million in cash turned out to be about $200,000. And it was found in the Darwin home of a white man with no links whatsoever to Aboriginal people or communities.

Oops.

Then there was Brough's claim, also last year, that a man who blew the whistle on alleged sexual violence in remote Aboriginal communities had to be given police protection after his identity was 'almost revealed' by NT police.

The 'whistleblower' turned out to be a senior official in Brough's department who - with Brough's full knowledge - had adopted a fake identity to appear on the ABC's Lateline program to back Brough's contentious claims about paedophile rings in Central Australia.

Brough has since abandoned those claims. And the 'whistleblower', Gregory Andrews, has never received any police protection.

Oops again.

Or what about the time (just six weeks ago) Mal Brough told media that Aboriginal mining royalties were being misused.

The problem for Brough, of course, is that mining royalties are private monies. You can no more argue the rightful owners of mining royalties are misusing them than you could have directed the late Kerry Packer not to gamble away tens of millions of dollars at the Star City Casino. But that didn't deter Mal Brough. He told ABC radio late in January: "Let me give you an example that was reported to me in the last fortnight. There was one particular gentleman being paid $250,000 in royalties [and] the whole lot was gone within a week, with a number of vehicles bought and the rest spent on gambling and other activities."

NIT did what the ABC didn't, and suggested to the Minister that a little more detail might not only help advance public debate, but prove whether or not his story was actually true.

The Minister declined.​

http://www.nit.com.au/News/story.aspx?id=9860

 

[Gustav]

How about this?

unacceptable
whitey should have intervened, arrested and locked her up
once safely in jail, you guys can rape and beat her to death

 

[The Marquis]

allow your abos on to an even playing field first by implementing the recommendations of the united nations and other human rights orgs. once that is done and the abos still come up lacking, i'll be happy to join you racist anglos in your incessant smear campaigns

Doubt that. You'd never be satisfied. And as I said... got a bit of the old racist in you yourself, haven't you laddie?

You still haven't answered the question.
I suppose the finer points of philosophy are rather lost on you, aren't they.
Guy loses a leg to a hit and run driver, laid up in a hospital bed, being a total prick to the nurses and demanding everyone serve him. Demands compensation and a nice house to live in, doesn't bother trying to walk because it's far easier being in a bed being waited on hand and foot.

Offer to carry him everywhere, would you? Or would you tell him to get up and bloody walk?

And using Mal Brough as somehow being representative of Australians...
Yeah... good on ya.

But this bit :
The problem for Brough, of course, is that mining royalties are private monies. You can no more argue the rightful owners of mining royalties are misusing them than you could have directed the late Kerry Packer not to gamble away tens of millions of dollars at the Star City Casino
Well actually that isn't exactly an accurate representation. The land being leased to mining companies counts as privately owned, yes... but by a group, not an individual. And it is a sad fact that the leaders of those groups are acting exactly as all humans tend to do when presented with power and cash... they keep loads of it, squander the rest, and generally only give a rats arse about their communties when a TV camera is in their face.
Funny how all these billions being paid to the Aboriginal communties never seems to filter past their own leaders... and they still demand we buid them houses,. Which we have. They destroyed them. We built more. They destroyed them too. And now here's Gustav, demanding from his little rock somewhere over the ocean that we keep building them houses until... until... something.

When are you going to stop being an idiot, anyway? Or is this really you?
And where the hell is my plot of land in somerset? You said there was no statute... or doesn't that count because I'm white?

 

[Gustav]

Doubt that. You'd never be satisfied. And as I said... got a bit of the old racist in you yourself, haven't you laddie?

You still haven't answered the question.
I suppose the finer points of philosophy are rather lost on you, aren't they.
Guy loses a leg to a hit and run driver, laid up in a hospital bed, being a total prick to the nurses and demanding everyone serve him. Demands compensation and a nice house to live in, doesn't bother trying to walk because it's far easier being in a bed being waited on hand and foot.

Offer to carry him everywhere, would you? Or would you tell him to get up and bloody walk?

i would not tell him anything
what i would however expect is that he be accorded any treatment that you are legally obliged to provide. if you have a problem with the law...well, fix it. as for emoting about prickery, that is best reserved for a session b/w you and your shrink

but by a group, not an individual

sounds like a private matter to me. inserting your white ass into the equation is merely an attempt to showcase your bigotry and hatred cloaked in a patina of moral platitudes and judgment

Funny how all these billions being paid to the Aboriginal communties never seems to filter past their own leaders.

bring your numbers to the table if you want to be accorded any semblance of credibility. the case of atsic had been satisfactorily resolved here and here. feel free to dispute the articles. if you have other cases of systemic corruption of significant proportions, let me see them. show me how and why this corruption differ from those in the larger australian society as a whole

remember, in trying to prove this case, the implicit premise is that the abo's are more corrupt than whitey and as such should not be in any position of power

/snicker

 

[Gustav]

abo's smearing shit, abo's being pricks, abo's as child abusers.........ja, thats sci's very own aussie contingent

Represent!

/spit

 

[Bells]

unacceptable
whitey should have intervened, arrested and locked her up
once safely in jail, you guys can rape and beat her to death

You mean "you guys" like Brian? I'm an African remember? And we all know how Brian refers to Africans..

She would never have made it to jail. It was self defense as far as the law was concerned. But tribal punishment saw her beaten to the point of hospitalisation. And no one was allowed to intervene to protect her.

And what of those 4 children. Do you think it's acceptable? I don't. Anyone who beats a child with sticks until their limbs break deserve to be put in jail. Beating children goes against any and all human rights laws that exists on this planet. Yet we are told that we have to remain silent because it was tribal law punishment. If we intervened and stopped the beatings or removed the children from that community for their own safety and placed them with relatives living outside of the community, we would be accused of bringing back the stolen generation.

So what would you have done Gusgus? Stood back and watched those children beaten? Given in to the family's request to remove the children for their own safety? Or chuckled about how you represent all "abos" by giving them their self determination? Such as:

"sounds like a private matter to me. inserting your white ass into the equation is merely an attempt to showcase your bigotry and hatred cloaked in a patina of moral platitudes and judgment"

​

Very racist attitude in and of itself. Reminds me of the 'let them kill each other until they are none left' attitude often seen amongst colonisers. God forbid we appear racist by stopping the ritualistic beating of 4 children or women. Protest about it when it's overseas? Hell yes. But just not when it's Aboriginals..

abo's smearing shit, abo's being pricks, abo's as child abusers.........ja, thats sci's very own aussie contingent

Represent!

Well seeing that I am apparently not an Aussie but an African simian according to Brian, what exactly do you want me to represent?

The solutions, Kunoth-Monk said, need to include tribal law, which is something that many parliamentarians, including the PM, have rejected. "It's a bit rich to say self-determination and traditional customary law have failed ... they have never been given a chance to work ... I expect if traditional customary law was able to fully work in some of these communities, the first bloke that assaulted a baby would have been thrown out of the tribe, quite probably with a spear stuck into him."


http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/33758
​

So what happens when said tribal law involves ritualistic beating and/or spearing of women and children?

In the case of the children, their relatives requested intervention.. But the State was advised if it intervened, then it would amount to denying a community its self determination and would thus, be racist. I think it is racist to not intervene. Do you know why? Because we would never allow a non-Aboriginal girl to be beaten - in that we would have intervened and removed her for her own safety. But we are prevented from doing so because she is an Aboriginal.. A case of racist if we do and racist if we don't. Should we demand their laws come more into line with mainstream laws? Should we demand they take out the beatings and spearings from their tribal customs? There is a call being made for that by many in the legal profession, Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal alike. Do we have a right to make that demand? I think we do.

Tell me how to fix the problems Gustav. Tell me what comes after "and". Offer up some fucking solutions instead of offering a racist 'let them kill each other' attitude that you've been plying in this thread.

 

[Asguard]

Bells, that family flead the NT for SA and cost the SA government a small fortune yet we are racists, the same people who's taxes paid to protect, feed and shelter them

 

[Bells]

Bells, that family flead the NT for SA and cost the SA government a small fortune yet we are racists, the same people who's taxes paid to protect, feed and shelter them

There is something to be said for the attitudes of the likes of Gustav and the known racists like Brian... the motivation of letting them breed each other out of existence or kill each other to the point of extinction is one that has pervaded racist society for generations. That is their version of self determination.

No one is denying that the treatment of Aboriginals is racist. But so is the silence. There appears to be a fear to speak out against some aspects of their culture.

Since news of the tribal punishment broke in this newspaper on February 10, only two readers have seen fit to put pen to paper in protest. From the rest of polite West Australian society there has been silence.

We live in a community in which people tut-tut about parents who smack their children on the backside. But we seem prepared to be silent about the ritual bashing of four Aboriginal girls. Why?

These children are trapped between two cultures as they drift from the urban life in South Hedland to remote, more traditional communities further east - and back again.

They are suffering the worst of both worlds.


(Source)
​

Why is it acceptable to beat girls with nulla nullas if they are Aboriginal but if it was a non-Aboriginal, it would not be acceptable? Why should we be constrained by their tribal customs to allow such punishments to occur? Should they not, as a people be held accountable to stop such practices? Mr Murray asks where do we draw the line? And he is right. Where do we draw the line here? Where does self determination stop and where does the protection of the rights of individuals begin in cases like those 4 girls and the woman who was beaten until she was hospitalised for killing her abuser?

 

[Asguard]

I have a friend who used to work as a volly ambo near one of the aboriginal camps, they got called out to a stabbing and found an aboriginal man with a spear through the leg, so they treated him. They were then attacked by a group of aboriginals wielding spears and the ambulance had spears thrown through it. This country needs to decide if trinket law should be have legal standing and if so some way to report judgments so that innocent bystanders arnt impacted by these decisions.

 

[keith1]

The answer is in the dreamtime. I'll go look. You be right. Good night.

 

[The Marquis]

I have a friend who used to work as a volly ambo near one of the aboriginal camps, they got called out to a stabbing and found an aboriginal man with a spear through the leg, so they treated him. They were then attacked by a group of aboriginals wielding spears and the ambulance had spears thrown through it. This country needs to decide if trinket law should be have legal standing and if so some way to report judgments so that innocent bystanders aren't impacted by these decisions.

More to it than that. In Darwin, if you happen to run over one staggering across the road pissed in the middle of the night, the whole tribe will attack you if you get out of your car to help. Dead serious. There have been several instances where some driver has been beaten half to death trying to help someone who got run over because they were too drunk to cross a road safely.

The result? There was a guy put away for several months recently because he failed to stop at the scene of an accident... never mind he was being charged down by a throng of extended family wielding any weapon at hand. Courts decided that wasn't relevent, or something. Perhaps they were trying to be seen as being even handed.
Basically, it was a 7 year old kid playing the middle of a busy street. His family were drunk, fighting, and has no idea he was out there. The guy got out to help.... so they attacked him. Put him in hospital. The police arrived in time for him to survive it.
The kid survived too. This was not an isolated incdent.. it's happened before. There have been several hit and runs... everybody understands. The papers report someone was hit while trying to cross a street and the driver sped off without trying to help. They aren't allowed to give the full story anymore because it involves black people.
But we all know what that really means.

This is Spookz in action. This is what he wants. Not fairness.. but retribution. Not equality, but ascendency. SAM too. They're the same thing.
It isn't a new world they want. They want their turn.

They're ugly.

 

[Gustav]

well
i suppose we can talk about crime and punishment
about the conflict b/w the legal systems of the old and new world
another aspect of self determination

/smirk

 

[The Marquis]

You know, everytime I hear you speak it reminds of one of those little wind up monkeys you used to get as a kid. Brightly coloured uniform, big drum, turn the key and it marches around going bom bom bom. Bom bom bom.
You can hear the little mechanical sounds of its innards grinding away.

If you care so much, sunshine, go live with them for a while.
Same thing will happen to you that happens to every starry eyed kid who comes out of University and volunteers as a socail worker.

 

[Brian Foley]

There is something to be said for the attitudes of the likes of Gustav and the known racists like Brian...

This from an individual who sets up accounts on supremacist sites...

No, no, no its really the likes of your attitude for having such a low opinion of our Aborigines:

'How do you get the message across when these children refuse to attend school? Signs on the road? Excellent! Until it gets torn down and/or covered in spray paint and god knows what else. '

'Are the people living in some communities feral? Yes. When shit is smeared on walls and houses destroyed, cars burnt or attacked as they drive past....'

'There is a feral culture - many of it exists around Byron Bay and Nimbin, where people live, quite literally, like ferals - shit in the woods and wipe your arse with leaves kind of feral. And they are called "ferals". They wear the title with pride amongst their unwashed masses.'

And you yourself immigrated from third world Feral Africa, bit rich I reckon dont you think.

Seeing I have been advised to ignore Bells, could admin at least confirm that Bells and spookz aren't the same IP address.

well
i suppose we can talk about crime and punishment
about the conflict b/w the legal systems of the old and new world
another aspect of self determination

/smirk

You hear all sorts of shit about Aborigines, from Road train drivers being hauled out of their cabs and murdered by the 'tribe', to drunken rapes and some Aboriginal predilection for smearing their own shit over public property. Fact is I HAVE lived in the Northern Territory, and Full blooded Aboriginals are ok people, really there is nothing to be scared of.

Reading the comments from the other Australians and our new comer on this thread, and its full of this type of sensationalist garbage. The curious point I find after living 3.5 years in America and some years in Canada and New Zealand as well. Is that in those 3 nations you would never hear that sought of derogatory talk about their own natives, as you hear from Australians. Absolutely amazing, unique I believe.

“They (Indigenous Australians) were deemed and constructed as subhuman — little more than animals under the same classification as flora and fauna. This was to justify not only the theft of their land - but their extermination. Compared to wild dogs, an edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica still in circulation when I was at school described them as “Only an animal of prey: more ferocious than the leopard or hyena, he devours his own species” — So they were hunted and raped and massacred..”
John Pilger’s “The Secret Country”