A world with a loving God.

Jan Ardena said:
Whatever.
But you can’t refute them.
Click to expand...
Of course, not. You tried to redefine the words so that nobody can refute you. It's your standard go-to in every debate: post something patently absurd and/or incorrect, then when you're called out backtrack by trying to redefine commonly-understood words to mean something ridiculous.

No it’s not.
You have to be a human being.
Click to expand...
Oh, very helpful. A human being is a human being.

You can't actually define "human being", can you, Jan? Not specifically. The fact is, human beings are what people recognise as such. That's the best we can do. Methods of recognition vary.

Think about it.

What studies?
Click to expand...
Medical studies. You know. Medical doctors study medicine.

To those who believe in Darwinian evolution.
Not every one accepts it as a scientific fact.
Click to expand...
Right. And a significant portion of the ones who deny the science do so for religious reasons, just like you do.
 
It seems Jan is saying the body is designed to be thrown away and as such is perfect in that regard.My bold.
Jan Ardena said:
The universe which is made up of gross and subtle matter, is destructable and it is therefore pointless trying to settle forever in it.
If you rent an apartment, you would be very foolish to spend time and money on lavish décor or reconstruction, because you could get kicked out anytime and thus waste good money. This body is like an apartment for the soul, which is eternal. The soul at some stage will be kicked out of the bodily apartment and based upon his actions, he will either get another apartment or attain his original spiritual identity and enjoy eternity with God. This is what reincarnation is. God is not concerned with the destructible material body, He is concerned with the actions performed by it, under the direction of you the eternal soul (you) within, the animator of the body. That’s the part that belongs to God. This body is here to act, and it is in the actions that decide ones next life.
Click to expand...
Jan, are you into reincarnation here? Is reincarnation mentioned in the Bible?
Late edit: Answered my own question:

Reincarnation-also known as the transmigration of souls-is not some exotic idea of non-Christian mysticism. In ancient orthodox Jewish and Christian writings, as well as the Holy Scriptures, we can find reincarnation as a fully developed belief, although today it is commonly ignored.
Click to expand...
https://ocoy.org/original-christian...MIvIPy1vrg5wIVRrTtCh1pGgIeEAAYASAAEgLFgfD_BwE
 
Last edited:
Jan Ardena said:
Why?
You’d think to die, get ill, or injured, is something that never happens to humans.
That’s life.
Get over it.
I get that it’s not a nice thing to forward to, or we don’t want any of that for ourselves, friends, and loved ones. But it’s never going to change.
Click to expand...
Oh, I've accepted it as a fact of life, but it's also a fact that mass murder and destruction is not the work of a loving being. Neither is the biblical endorsement of slavery and genocide.
 
James R said:
Of course, not. You tried to redefine the words so that nobody can refute you.
Click to expand...
Nope.
We all know what “perfect” means.
We all know what “complete” means.
We all know what “design” means.
Hence we all should be able to understand what A perfectly “complete design” means.
We all know it doesn’t mean “the design is perfect” as in no ailments, no broken bones, no growing, or no dying.
We all know that the design of the human being allows for all of the above.
We all know that is all human beings are going to be.
We all know there is no human being that has transcended any of those conditions, while alive.
Once you are a human being, and you are alive. You are a perfectly complete human being.
Argue against that.
James R said:
Oh, very helpful. A human being is a human being.
Click to expand...
Any description of a human being is so because you are describing a human being. It doesn’t anything outside of that.
I can see why you would pretend to not understand the point I'm making. It leaves no room for darwinism.
Human being are just human being. Always have been. Always will be.
James R said:
The fact is, human beings are what people recognise as such. That's the best we can do. Methods of recognition vary.

Think about it.
Click to expand...
That may be a fact. But it is not what human being are.
Human beings are beyond what we decide they are.
James R said:
Medical studies. You know. Medical doctors study medicine.
Click to expand...
Show me.
James R said:
Right. And a significant portion of the ones who deny the science do so for religious reasons, just like you do.
Click to expand...
You don't need religion to deny it.
It only seems to be hanging around because nobody wants to admit the emperor is naked.:D
 
foghorn said:
It seems Jan is saying the body is designed to be thrown away and as such is perfect in that regard.My bold.
Click to expand...
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that the design of the human body, is perfectly complete.
Any enhancements we make does not make us any more or less a human being.
foghorn said:
Jan, are you into reincarnation here? Is reincarnation mentioned in the Bible?
Click to expand...
Wow!!! You went digging.:D
Yes I was referring to reincarnation.
Reincarnation isn't mentioned in the bible. There is a sentence that goes "as you sow, so shall you reap''.
While that may not mean reincarnation directly, it describes a law. What goes around comes around, is another type of saying.
I don't think anyone can imagine what it is like to have no conscious awareness at all.
I don't think that complete nothingness exists.
 
How is any design "perfectly complete" if it keeps evolving? Isn't evolution the very proof that no design is perfectly complete - as either it dies out, or it changes. Both of those options seem to negate the idea of being "perfectly complete". Unless the "perfect" part includes the necessity of dying off, or of not actually being the final design?
But I guess if one doesn't accept evolution...
 
Sarkus said:
How is any design "perfectly complete" if it keeps evolving?
Click to expand...
That's like asking why if I'm a perfectly complete human being, why was I a new born baby, at a point in my life.
As if that is dehumanising factor.
Isn't evolution the very proof that no design is perfectly complete - as either it dies out, or it changes. Both of those options seem to negate the idea of being "perfectly complete". Unless the "perfect" part includes the necessity of dying off, or of not actually being the final design?
But I guess if one doesn't accept evolution...
Click to expand...
We fit into the whole thing.
Everything is working like clockwork.
That's what makes it perfectly complete.
 
Jan Ardena said:
Even if I imagine a black empty space. I'm still imagining it. Ergo, conscious awareness.
Click to expand...
There is no way, that I can see, how anyone can imagine zero conscious awareness.
If anyone knows how, please do tell.
Or tell us what you imagined (that doesn't even sound right).
 
And it goes on... knee jerk reactions, not interested in the truth just projecting their "facts" onto each other. No one wants to learn.
 
Jan Ardena said:
There is no way, that I can see, how anyone can imagine zero conscious awareness.
If anyone knows how, please do tell.
Or tell us what you imagined (that doesn't even sound right).
Click to expand...
You should talk to yourself more often, they say it's a sign of intelligence.
 
Jan Ardena said:
That's like asking why if I'm a perfectly complete human being, why was I a new born baby, at a point in my life.
As if that is dehumanising factor.
Click to expand...
No, it's nothing like asking that. A human grows from baby to child to adult. That is what it is to be human. But if the design is "perfectly complete" then you are flatly rejecting the idea that humans will ever evolve into something else, into another species, whether in a million years or a billion.
Alternatively you might be saying that every species is perfectly complete... a monkey is perfectly complete as a monkey, a great ape perfectly complete as a great ape. In which case you are stating nothing other than the Law of Identity: "x is x", or everything is what it is. And since it is exactly what it is, nothing more, nothing less, it is perfectly what it is. In a philosophy forum about the laws of logic it might be meaningful, but in a religion forum it is nothing but trite and shallow babble.
We fit into the whole thing.
Everything is working like clockwork.
That's what makes it perfectly complete.
Click to expand...
But says nothing of the actual content of that clockwork menchanism, and offers of nothing of value other than "x is x".
 
Jan Ardena said:
Even if I imagine a black empty space. I'm still imagining it. Ergo, conscious awareness.
Click to expand...
Well done, you have argued that a conscious awareness is required for what we understand to be the ability to imagine. The issue, however, is not what does the imagining, but what is imagined. Or can you not imagine flying pigs without thinking you are one?
Jan Ardena said:
There is no way, that I can see, how anyone can imagine zero conscious awareness.
Click to expand...
The same way one can imagine absolute nothing: by intellect alone.
Were I more cynical I might perhaps think it is your lack of such imagination that explains much of your posting on this website.
 
Sarkus said:
No, it's nothing like asking that. A human grows from baby to child to adult. That is what it is to be human. But if the design is "perfectly complete" then you are flatly rejecting the idea that humans will ever evolve into something else, into another species, whether in a million years or a billion.
Alternatively you might be saying that every species is perfectly complete... a monkey is perfectly complete as a monkey, a great ape perfectly complete as a great ape. In which case you are stating nothing other than the Law of Identity: "x is x", or everything is what it is. And since it is exactly what it is, nothing more, nothing less, it is perfectly what it is. In a philosophy forum about the laws of logic it might be meaningful, but in a religion forum it is nothing but trite and shallow babble.
But says nothing of the actual content of that clockwork menchanism, and offers of nothing of value other than "x is x".
Click to expand...
Why would a monkey want to be something else? It would take a lot of monkies to be swayed by this invisible force they call evolution. I just don't picture it. The earth is about 5700 years old, and I might make it flat because why not? It would make a lot of people look like fools.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top