A world with a loving God.

[Vociferous]

So, there is time and not '' absolutely nothing''? And there is a location/space for there to be a potential at?
The virtual particles in your video arise from the uncertainty about the energy content at a location in space over a short period of time. It could be zero or greater than zero.
You seem to want to use the same uncertainly principle to give rise to the Universe from no space and no time, '' absolutely nothing''.

I've already explained this to you. Virtual particles may require space, but the quantum fluctuations that give rise to them does not. And the uncertainty in energy exists BECAUSE of the lack of time.

 

[James R]

Vociferous:

No, that presumption relies on an omniscience which may not be logically possible, like knowing a future that does not yet exist to be knowable.

I thought you said your God is omniscient? Omniscient, but he can't predict the logical consequences of skepticism, viewed against the background of the universe he chose to set up?

If skepticism is what keeps a person separate from God, then it does share the definition of sin.

Yes. Rather telling, that.

 

[foghorn]

I've already explained this to you. Virtual particles may require space, but the quantum fluctuations that give rise to them does not. And the uncertainty in energy exists BECAUSE of the lack of time.

If there is '' absolutely nothing'', there is no field to have quantum fluctuations in.

 

[Jan Ardena]

I look at our world and as wonderful as it is I do wonder what it may be like if there was really a loving god at the wheel.

“a loving God”?
What do you mean by that?

And what could be designed better if it were just not only left up to evolution?

Things are designed for necessity, according to specific laws. Excuse me while I round up some sheep in my Bentley. Because my helicopter is being repaired.

Would we be immortal rather than grasping at the unsupported promise of an after life where it seems we are only destined to sit around gods feet much like a loyal dog.

We are immortal.
This life is temporary.
It is considered very fortunate to sit at God’s feet, unless you accept the temporary, as all in all.

I think for a start dogs would no doubt wear pants and animals could talk...would any animals be carnivours ?...would senseless killing be present in such a mythical world?...would sexual abuse exist..well would any abuse exist...?

Sexual abuse occurs because we become slaves to the dictates of our senses. Our senses are are firmly attached to our temporary bodies.

 

[Halc]

And what could be designed better if it were just not only left up to evolution?

This from the OP, and nobody comments on this.
The implication is that humans at least are somehow a perfect design if a perfect God was the engineer, but due to our recent and rapid evolution, we're actually a train wreck caught in the middle of transitioning from one environment to a new one.

 

[Jan Ardena]

This from the OP, and nobody comments on this.
The implication is that humans at least are somehow a perfect design if a perfect God was the engineer, but due to our recent and rapid evolution, we're actually a train wreck caught in the middle of transitioning from one environment to a new one.

The “design” is perfectly complete.
Perfection can only be God.

 

[billvon]

The “design” is perfectly complete.
Perfection can only be God.

Then God did not have a hand in our creation, since we are far from a perfect design.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Then God did not have a hand in our creation, since we are far from a perfect design.

Essentially we are perfection.
These body suits are perfectly complete in their design.

 

[Jan Ardena]

You claimed you did not say that. You lied.


You are standing in front of a mirror.

Anyway, reported for demonstrable lying.

He didn’t tell people to go to hell, you tried to spin it like that.
He said skeptics “can go to hell...”

 

[Beer w/Straw]

I bet I can make a better tasting beer than God lol!!!

Oh wait, is beer evil or some crap?

:EDIT:

Is there a patron saint of wine/beer or something and did they write down the recipe?

Like, for 5 gallon:

10 lbs Roman grain
1 oz Roman hops

...

 

[billvon]

Essentially we are perfection.
These body suits are perfectly complete in their design.

Nope. There are a lot of problems with them. Remember - evolution does not choose the perfect design, only a design that sorta works.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Nope. There are a lot of problems with them. Remember - evolution does not choose the perfect design, only a design that sorta works.

What are problems that make bodies incomplete?

 

[billvon]

What are problems that make bodies incomplete?

Our eyes are backwards, so we often get detached retinas.
Mammalian birth is impossibly contrived and risky, and does significant damage to women.
The recurrent laryngeal nerve is critical for speech, and goes from our brains to our larynxes, where it allows us to speak. But due to an evolutionary glitch it loops under our heart before it gets there - and thus is more vulnerable to trauma.
Our backs were designed to curve and carry our weight when we were walking around on all fours. Now that we are upright it doesn't work as well - which is why lower back problems are very common.
Testicles. Enough said.
Our food goes down the "front" tube and air goes down the "back" tube in our upper necks. Then they have to swap locations; air goes into the lungs (in front) and food goes down the esophagus (in the back.) Thus choking is a big problem.
Knees. A ball and socket joint would work a LOT better than the garter-and-two-big-bearings we have now.
And those are just the obvious things.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Our eyes are backwards, so we often get detached retinas.
Mammalian birth is impossibly contrived and risky, and does significant damage to women.
The recurrent laryngeal nerve is critical for speech, and goes from our brains to our larynxes, where it allows us to speak. But due to an evolutionary glitch it loops under our heart before it gets there - and thus is more vulnerable to trauma.
Our backs were designed to curve and carry our weight when we were walking around on all fours. Now that we are upright it doesn't work as well - which is why lower back problems are very common.
Testicles. Enough said.
Our food goes down the "front" tube and air goes down the "back" tube in our upper necks. Then they have to swap locations; air goes into the lungs (in front) and food goes down the esophagus (in the back.) Thus choking is a big problem.
Knees. A ball and socket joint would work a LOT better than the garter-and-two-big-bearings we have now.
And those are just the obvious things.

You didn't even mention appendix.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Our eyes are backwards, so we often get detached retinas.
Mammalian birth is impossibly contrived and risky, and does significant damage to women.
The recurrent laryngeal nerve is critical for speech, and goes from our brains to our larynxes, where it allows us to speak. But due to an evolutionary glitch it loops under our heart before it gets there - and thus is more vulnerable to trauma.
Our backs were designed to curve and carry our weight when we were walking around on all fours. Now that we are upright it doesn't work as well - which is why lower back problems are very common.
Testicles. Enough said.
Our food goes down the "front" tube and air goes down the "back" tube in our upper necks. Then they have to swap locations; air goes into the lungs (in front) and food goes down the esophagus (in the back.) Thus choking is a big problem.
Knees. A ball and socket joint would work a LOT better than the garter-and-two-big-bearings we have now.
And those are just the obvious things.

So what? That doesn’t mean they are incomplete in their design.
Apple may make a phone to last no more than five years, meaning after a period of time it starts to deteriorate. Just because we don’t like that idea, doesn’t mean it’s an incomplete design. Show where the design is actually incomplete.

 

[(Q)]

So what? That doesn’t mean they are incomplete in their design.
Apple may make a phone to last no more than five years, meaning after a period of time it starts to deteriorate. Just because we don’t like that idea, doesn’t mean it’s an incomplete design. Show where the design is actually incomplete.

Humans don't have wings to fly. I mean, you haven't actually defined "complete".

 

[Jan Ardena]

Neither does my iPhone 8+.
But it’s not incomplete.
If you make the claim, the onus is on you to explain.
Try again.

 

[billvon]

So what? That doesn’t mean they are incomplete in their design.

Sure it does. A more complete design would result in less misery.

Show where the design is actually incomplete.

Marsupials have a complete design for reproduction. They give birth when the joey is the size of a thumb, so their pelvises can be better constructed and there's less damage. They can stop their reproductive cycle when the joey is in the pouch nursing - just shut down development of the next fetus until the joey is weaned. Since the joey is outside for much of its early development, the mother can care for it better. We have all the basic hardware for that but are only halfway along that design process, to the detriment of women everywhere.

Feet. We have incomplete feet. They have toes, but they are vestiges of when we used them like hands. Now all they do is help us balance, and break with some regularity. Our arches collapse and our fascia breaks down because our evolution from brachiating to walking animal is not yet complete. Eventually we will have a more complete design with feet intended for walking.

Appendix. We are in the process of losing it (and thus preventing much disease, death and pain) but that process is incomplete.

Apple may make a phone to last no more than five years, meaning after a period of time it starts to deteriorate.

So God planned us to be incomplete so that we would suffer and then fail like an Iphone? Great guy.

 

[(Q)]

Neither does my iPhone 8+.
But it’s not incomplete.
If you make the claim, the onus is on you to explain.
Try again.

That's what I asked you, to explain what you mean by "complete or incomplete"?? What does that mean, exactly?

 

[Jan Ardena]

Sure it does. A more complete design would result in less misery.

Why would it?

So God planned us to be incomplete so that we would suffer and then fail like an Iphone? Great guy.

You've yet to show “incompleteness”.