Who would you like it defined by? A group of druggies on the corner? A group of high-falutin', arrogant rich people in expensive homes? A bunch of poor, poverty-stricken people in the ghetto? .....?
Baron Max
A Simple Justice System
- Thread starter Norsefire
- Start date
Who would you like it defined by? A group of druggies on the corner? A group of high-falutin', arrogant rich people in expensive homes? A bunch of poor, poverty-stricken people in the ghetto? .....?
Baron Max
That would be the reward/punishment system we would love to get away from as it clearly does not work.
Prisons are overpopulated and people sit on death row. What more evidence do you need?
What, exactly, is the measure that you use to determine over or under populations of prisons? How many should there be? What percentage of the population should be in prison? Is there a standard that exists somewhere that's a reliable measure?
If we'd execute them in accordance with the conviction and punishment, then the prisoners would NOT be on death row for so long. So, yes, I agree with you on that issue.
Baron Max
But isn't that the society's place to determine and not you? I understand that you might disagree with what society has decided, but isn't it up to society to make those determinations ....and any changes they might want?
It seems a lot of people here at sciforums, for example, love drugs and think that drugs are great and wonderful things, and that drugs should be legalized, etc. But society obviously does not! A few druggies should NOT determine the drug policies of their society!
Baron Max
You can't seriously be missing the point that badly, can you?
You're asking the wrong questions, Max.
A very large proportion of individual prison facilities are operating over capacity. As in, a facility is designed to accommodate a certain maximum number of prisoners, and many prisons have inmate populations well in excess of that number.
Baron Max said:
You're asking the wrong questions, Max.
A very large proportion of individual prison facilities are operating over capacity. As in, a facility is designed to accommodate a certain maximum number of prisoners, and many prisons have inmate populations well in excess of that number.
So who designed the prison facilities? Perhaps he just designed it with not enough space. See?
And thus we're right back to my original questions. How big should the prisons be? Someone must have determined what the architect was to design. Surely they didn't just toss darts at a board.
No, Tiassa, I asked the right questions, you just can't answer them.
Baron Max
Prisons have a rated capacity.
For the country as a whole we can look at per capita incarceration rates vs other first world nations, and see we suck. We lead the world at throwing people in jail.
Incarceration rate
American prisons and jails held 2,299,116 inmates as of June 30, 2007.[12] One in every 31 American adults, or 7.3 million Americans, are in prison, on parole or probation. Approximately one in every 18 men in the United States is behind bars or being monitored. A significantly greater percentage of the American population is in some form of correctional control even though crime rates have declined by about 25 percent from 1988-2008.[13] 70% of prisoners in the United States are non-whites.[14] In recent decades the U.S. has experienced a surge in its prison population, quadrupling since 1980, partially as a result of mandated sentences that came about during the "war on drugs." Violent crime and property crime have declined since the early 1990s.[15]
As of 2004, the three states with the lowest ratio of imprisoned to civilian population are Maine (148 per 100,000), Minnesota (171 per 100,000), and Rhode Island (175 per 100,000). The three states with the highest ratio are Louisiana (816 per 100,000), Texas (694 per 100,000), and Mississippi (669 per 100,000).[16]
Nearly one million of those incarcerated in state and federal prisons, as well as local jails, are serving time for committing non-violent crimes.[17]
In 2002, 93.2% of prisoners were male. About 10.4% of all black males in the United States between the ages of 25 and 29 were sentenced and in prison, compared to 2.4% of Hispanic males and 1.3% of white males.[18]
In 2005, about 1 out of every 136 U.S. residents was incarcerated either in prison or jail.[19] The total amount being 2,320,359, with 1,446,269 in state and federal prisons and 747,529 in local jails.[20]
A 2005 report estimated that 27% of federal prison inmates are noncitizens, convicted of crimes while in the country legally or illegally.[21] However, federal prison inmates are only a 6 percent of the total incarcerated population; noncitizen populations in state and local prisons are more difficult to establish. The World Prison Brief puts the total number of foreign prisoners in all federal, state and local facilities at 5.9%.[3]
The United States has the highest documented per capita rate of incarceration of any country in the world. [3][5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Incarceration_rate
Land of the "free" my ass.
American prisons and jails held 2,299,116 inmates as of June 30, 2007.[12] One in every 31 American adults, or 7.3 million Americans, are in prison, on parole or probation. Approximately one in every 18 men in the United States is behind bars or being monitored. A significantly greater percentage of the American population is in some form of correctional control even though crime rates have declined by about 25 percent from 1988-2008.[13] 70% of prisoners in the United States are non-whites.[14] In recent decades the U.S. has experienced a surge in its prison population, quadrupling since 1980, partially as a result of mandated sentences that came about during the "war on drugs." Violent crime and property crime have declined since the early 1990s.[15]
As of 2004, the three states with the lowest ratio of imprisoned to civilian population are Maine (148 per 100,000), Minnesota (171 per 100,000), and Rhode Island (175 per 100,000). The three states with the highest ratio are Louisiana (816 per 100,000), Texas (694 per 100,000), and Mississippi (669 per 100,000).[16]
Nearly one million of those incarcerated in state and federal prisons, as well as local jails, are serving time for committing non-violent crimes.[17]
In 2002, 93.2% of prisoners were male. About 10.4% of all black males in the United States between the ages of 25 and 29 were sentenced and in prison, compared to 2.4% of Hispanic males and 1.3% of white males.[18]
In 2005, about 1 out of every 136 U.S. residents was incarcerated either in prison or jail.[19] The total amount being 2,320,359, with 1,446,269 in state and federal prisons and 747,529 in local jails.[20]
A 2005 report estimated that 27% of federal prison inmates are noncitizens, convicted of crimes while in the country legally or illegally.[21] However, federal prison inmates are only a 6 percent of the total incarcerated population; noncitizen populations in state and local prisons are more difficult to establish. The World Prison Brief puts the total number of foreign prisoners in all federal, state and local facilities at 5.9%.[3]
The United States has the highest documented per capita rate of incarceration of any country in the world. [3][5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Incarceration_rate
Land of the "free" my ass.
Challenger78
Valued Senior Member
Valid point. I was trying to say, I would not subject it to popular concern without extreme review. I would rather have the wisest and well learned professionals of law review the justice system.
Also, I'd rather have socialized lawyers than Norse's system.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Who in society decides ?
Or are you proposing that every time some guy farts we should have a national vote on whether that was bad or not, and, consequently, whether or not to kill the poor dude for it ?
I think I saw this on The Running Man or something.
So if we'd have built much larger capacity jails and there was no overcrowding, then it wouldn't be an issue?
I would say that we are "freer" than most of those other nations. And, no, I don't mean it so much as the ideal in legal terms, but that principle of the founding of the nation itself. Europe went through a long history of violence and perhaps the citizens learned how to deal with it.
In Europe, the society is a more cohesive system than it is in the USA ...the approval of ones own social group is important in European cultures. That's not so true in the USA cultures ...freedom is the most important, personal freedom seems to trump anything to do with society or social values.
Baron Max
So what are you saying exactly? That the cops and the courts should just let people get away with crimes? Or are you saying that the laws are wrong, and we should have less laws, and let the people do all those things that we now throw them into jail for?
What is it that you want to do to change all of this? What is your "simple justice system"? And will the members of society have a say in it?
Baron Max
I'm saying jail cause the problem its supposedly fixing.
We need to heal those who have social illness and preferably in a manner where they can continue functioning in society to pay for their treatment and make restitution to their victims.
No idea what you're babbling about.
And, we can forget about those who died on death row but were innocent of the crimes they were convicted. Again, the system doesn't work.
How? Please explain. If we tear down all the jails in the country, then there'll be no more problems with crime????
And please provide some substantiating evidence and not just some opinions of liberal, bleeding-heart, doo-gooders.
How can we heal them? Do you have some magic method that the rest of the world doesn't know about?
And what do we do with them while we're healing them ...just let them keep walking the streets? Oh, hey, maybe we can build a big building and house them while we cure them??? ....maybe we can call it a ....jail??
Baron Max