A Simple Justice System
- Thread starter Norsefire
- Start date
You just did something bad.
How? Unless your point is to demonstrate the subjective nature of good and bad, but it should be assumed that this is a matter left to society, of course.
No, I believe that none of them are 'right', but simply have different priorities.
At any rate, see what I told spidergoat. That is to be left to society to decide, however afterwards it's fairly simple and straightforward.
NiccolòBrioschi
Registered Member
The "die" part is wrong.
Right on!
Jaywalking: die.
Run a red light: die.
Light a cigarette in a "non-smoking" area: die.
Return your library books late (or not all): die.
Steal to feed your children: die.
I like it.
Question the laws....Die?
Thats lame, you can't kill somebody just for being bad. I say eye for an eye system all around in criminal law, you rob him ile send the goons round to rob you. you kill out of coldblood you get killed, you kill in self defence then you get a medal. If you rape a lil girl you don't want to know what the goons will do.
I wouldnt even pay police I would just have unpaid goons who take whatever they want from people who are found guilty of robbery or burglary. Why waste so much money paying rookie officers to do what any thug can do and probably better and faster.
There would be no need for a huge court system with jails I wouldnt keep jails, only people who kidnap and take hostages go to jail.
peace.
How to prove who did the "bad" thing would also be difficult. You could set someone up very easy under this idea to kill them legally!
NiccolòBrioschi
Registered Member
We have made a mistake, the light was green... Sorry, too late.
If you have some form of jury and council of judgement holders wouldn't it be just as easy to infiltrate a set up into any system?. It's just like the USA handig out death sentence to people convicted of murder when they might have been set up but still found guilty.
Both systems have flaws, which means my system would need to fix that flaw and only kill people who are 100% proven guilty of the crime without doubt not reasonable doubt.
peace.
NiccolòBrioschi
Registered Member
The Hammurabi code was written 3000 years ago... Try not to kill anyone, like we do in the good old civilized Europe.
The Code of Ur-Nammu oldest known law code surviving today. Sumerian 2100-2050 BCE.
After An and Enlil had turned over the Kingship of Ur to Nanna, at that time did Ur-Nammu, son born of Ninsun, for his beloved mother who bore him, in accordance with his principles of equity and truth... Then did Ur-Nammu the mighty warrior, king of Ur, king of Sumer and Akkad, by the might of Nanna, lord of the city, and in accordance with the true word of Utu, establish equity in the land; he banished malediction, violence and strife, and set the monthly Temple expenses at 90 gur of barley, 30 sheep, and 30 sila of butter. He fashioned the bronze sila-measure, standardized the one-mina weight, and standardized the stone weight of a shekel of silver in relation to one mina... The orphan was not delivered up to the rich man; the widow was not delivered up to the mighty man; the man of one shekel was not delivered up to the man of one mina."
One mina was made equal to 60 shekels.
Among the surviving laws are the following:
1. If a man commits a murder, that man must be killed.
2. If a man commits a robbery, he will be killed.
3. If a man commits a kidnapping, he is to be imprisoned and pay 15 shekels of silver.
4. If a slave marries a slave, and that slave is set free, he does not leave the household.
5. If a slave marries a native (i.e. free) person, he/she is to hand the firstborn son over to his owner.
6. If a man violates the right of another and deflowers the virgin wife of a young man, they shall kill that male.
7. If the wife of a man followed after another man and he slept with her, they shall slay that woman, but that male shall be set free. (§4 in some translations)
8. If a man proceeded by force, and deflowered the virgin slavewoman of another man, that man must pay five shekels of silver. (5)
9. If a man divorces his first-time wife, he shall pay her one mina of silver. (6)
10. If it is a (former) widow whom he divorces, he shall pay her half a mina of silver. (7)
11. If the man had slept with the widow without there having been any marriage contract, he need not pay any silver. (8)
13. If a man is accused of sorcery he must undergo ordeal by water; if he is proven innocent, his accuser must pay 3 shekels. (10)
14. If a man accused the wife of a man of adultery, and the river ordeal proved her innocent, then the man who had accused her must pay one-third of a mina of silver. (11)
15. If a prospective son-in-law enters the house of his prospective father-in-law, but his father-in-law later gives his daughter to another man, the father-in-law shall return to the rejected son-in-law twofold the amount of bridal presents he had brought. (12)
17. If a slave escapes from the city limits, and someone returns him, the owner shall pay two shekels to the one who returned him. (14)
18. If a man knocks out the eye of another man, he shall weigh out ½ a mina of silver. (15)
19. If a man has cut off another man’s foot, he is to pay ten shekels. (16)
20. If a man, in the course of a scuffle, smashed the limb of another man with a club, he shall pay one mina of silver. (17)
21. If someone severed the nose of another man with a copper knife, he must pay two-thirds of a mina of silver. (18)
22. If a man knocks out a tooth of another man, he shall pay two shekels of silver. (19)
24. [...] If he does not have a slave, he is to pay 10 shekels of silver. If he does not have silver, he is to give another thing that belongs to him. (21)
25. If a man’s slave-woman, comparing herself to her mistress, speaks insolently to her, her mouth shall be scoured with 1 quart of salt. (22)
28. If a man appeared as a witness, and was shown to be a perjurer, he must pay fifteen shekels of silver. (25)
29. If a man appears as a witness, but withdraws his oath, he must make payment, to the extent of the value in litigation of the case. (26)
30. If a man stealthily cultivates the field of another man and he raises a complaint, this is however to be rejected, and this man will lose his expenses. (27)
31. If a man flooded the field of a man with water, he shall measure out three kur of barley per iku of field. (28)
32. If a man had let an arable field to a(nother) man for cultivation, but he did not cultivate it, turning it into wasteland, he shall measure out three kur of barley per iku of field.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Ur-Nammu
After An and Enlil had turned over the Kingship of Ur to Nanna, at that time did Ur-Nammu, son born of Ninsun, for his beloved mother who bore him, in accordance with his principles of equity and truth... Then did Ur-Nammu the mighty warrior, king of Ur, king of Sumer and Akkad, by the might of Nanna, lord of the city, and in accordance with the true word of Utu, establish equity in the land; he banished malediction, violence and strife, and set the monthly Temple expenses at 90 gur of barley, 30 sheep, and 30 sila of butter. He fashioned the bronze sila-measure, standardized the one-mina weight, and standardized the stone weight of a shekel of silver in relation to one mina... The orphan was not delivered up to the rich man; the widow was not delivered up to the mighty man; the man of one shekel was not delivered up to the man of one mina."
One mina was made equal to 60 shekels.
Among the surviving laws are the following:
1. If a man commits a murder, that man must be killed.
2. If a man commits a robbery, he will be killed.
3. If a man commits a kidnapping, he is to be imprisoned and pay 15 shekels of silver.
4. If a slave marries a slave, and that slave is set free, he does not leave the household.
5. If a slave marries a native (i.e. free) person, he/she is to hand the firstborn son over to his owner.
6. If a man violates the right of another and deflowers the virgin wife of a young man, they shall kill that male.
7. If the wife of a man followed after another man and he slept with her, they shall slay that woman, but that male shall be set free. (§4 in some translations)
8. If a man proceeded by force, and deflowered the virgin slavewoman of another man, that man must pay five shekels of silver. (5)
9. If a man divorces his first-time wife, he shall pay her one mina of silver. (6)
10. If it is a (former) widow whom he divorces, he shall pay her half a mina of silver. (7)
11. If the man had slept with the widow without there having been any marriage contract, he need not pay any silver. (8)
13. If a man is accused of sorcery he must undergo ordeal by water; if he is proven innocent, his accuser must pay 3 shekels. (10)
14. If a man accused the wife of a man of adultery, and the river ordeal proved her innocent, then the man who had accused her must pay one-third of a mina of silver. (11)
15. If a prospective son-in-law enters the house of his prospective father-in-law, but his father-in-law later gives his daughter to another man, the father-in-law shall return to the rejected son-in-law twofold the amount of bridal presents he had brought. (12)
17. If a slave escapes from the city limits, and someone returns him, the owner shall pay two shekels to the one who returned him. (14)
18. If a man knocks out the eye of another man, he shall weigh out ½ a mina of silver. (15)
19. If a man has cut off another man’s foot, he is to pay ten shekels. (16)
20. If a man, in the course of a scuffle, smashed the limb of another man with a club, he shall pay one mina of silver. (17)
21. If someone severed the nose of another man with a copper knife, he must pay two-thirds of a mina of silver. (18)
22. If a man knocks out a tooth of another man, he shall pay two shekels of silver. (19)
24. [...] If he does not have a slave, he is to pay 10 shekels of silver. If he does not have silver, he is to give another thing that belongs to him. (21)
25. If a man’s slave-woman, comparing herself to her mistress, speaks insolently to her, her mouth shall be scoured with 1 quart of salt. (22)
28. If a man appeared as a witness, and was shown to be a perjurer, he must pay fifteen shekels of silver. (25)
29. If a man appears as a witness, but withdraws his oath, he must make payment, to the extent of the value in litigation of the case. (26)
30. If a man stealthily cultivates the field of another man and he raises a complaint, this is however to be rejected, and this man will lose his expenses. (27)
31. If a man flooded the field of a man with water, he shall measure out three kur of barley per iku of field. (28)
32. If a man had let an arable field to a(nother) man for cultivation, but he did not cultivate it, turning it into wasteland, he shall measure out three kur of barley per iku of field.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Ur-Nammu
I'm sure that you're aware that "justice" is not only about the penalty, but it's also about guilt or innocence of the crime. What you put up above is ONLY the penalty ....how are people convicted of those crimes? That would be a major part of the ideals of "justice".
Baron Max
NiccolòBrioschi
Registered Member
History is not the point.
Yeah, I agree. But to make it nicer and more politically correct, we usually say that "vengeance" is a personal issue, whereby "justice" is that same vengeance from the viewpoint of a society. See?
Vengeance - personal, not a nice thing.
Justice - vengeance by the society, a nice thing.
Oh, god, humans are weird, ain't they??? ...LOL!
Baron Max