A question for atheists

[enton]

You are known as the 'born agains'. I would be curious to hear some more stories from you born agains.. tell me what personal tragedies and losses you went through that made you born again. Tell me all about how life dealt you such shit cards that you decided to start looking skyward, just like someone who buys a lottery ticket will cross his fingers with the same level of "faith" that you espouse is actually of some value in life. It's equivalent to simple hope because you want something better, nothing more.

As far as you've noticed to african believers, I think only hundreds or less native africans are christians. That's true biblically speaking, many poor are called by God to have a fellowship with Christ and not may a rich people are called. To (us) christians, we retain three, faith, hope and charity.

By the way, I am a born-again man. By experience as a thinker, I listened to every TV stations before who happened to broadcast teachings of the Bible. I also went to libraries for the sake of religious readings. Remember the word "religion". Although biblically speaking, philosophy and science had something to do with religion but because I once knew historically speaking the value and significance of ancient people's beliefs about "gods" (although I don't believe that those ancients before David knew about "gods" met by David), then it followed my intention to investigate further and to compare the beliefs of people, ancient or modern: christianism, other Bible-basing groups, Islam, Anti-Bible groups (except satanism), agnosticism, crusade and many more. Much greater reading have I been doing right now that I learned Internet surfing.

By questioning my own mind about hope and it's use, about the system of governments on earth and about the order of cosmos, I came to decision that I keep my life in order too. Thus, I became christian, born not by the will of flesh, but by the call of God through the gospel of His Power and Wisdom (Christ).

Now for the sake of those who don't understand, it's spiritual and not natural. You can't grasp my stand if you are natural (all for the sake of nature). Remember, if there are concrete things, there are abstract things too. So don't miscontrue my point.

 

[(Q)]

You displayed a complete oxymoronic ostentatious pretension. Why?

On the contrary, I offered a simple solution to many of the worlds problems.

Then why bother to scrutinize religious posts?

To aid in the above solution.

Well in my common sense, I am here for the sake of misled people.

Then, you should be concentrating on misled theists since they all claim to have gods word yet all disagree with each other. You have a lot of work to do.

As for atheists, they all agree on their beliefs, or more precisely, the lack thereof.

And it's not in my mind to spread gossip and deceit. My basis is Bible.

You're here to preach, we all know that. Tiresome, predictable, boring.

And if you aren't interested enough. Then you better tell the admin to totally close/shut down the "Religion" category in this sciforums. That's my request.

Then, why are you asking me?

one thing is for sure, atheists are religious people

And theists are delusional.

 

[nameless]

Another question for atheists...
Why is it so difficult to show compassion for/to theists and their ilk??

 

[Hapsburg]

Because what they think makes no sense to us, and we tend to not care about those with opposing views.
Ironic, no?

 

[nameless]

Interesting...
Are we our views?
Ironic yes!
Lots of mirrors?

 

[SnakeLord]

Why is it so difficult to show compassion for/to theists and their ilk??

By and large, 'compassion' isn't an issue. In everyday instances people's religion is of no relevance or interest. It only generally comes to light that someone is a christian when they start trying to 'save your soul (tm)'.

I personally consider it rather rude for some stranger to just dump their views upon you and expect you to believe everything they say for no good reason when you didn't even request that they do so. These people deserve nothing, and certainly not 'compassion'.

 

[(Q)]

Why is it so difficult to show compassion for/to theists and their ilk??

That's an easy one. It is the thought process of theists, who place their faith first, which has brought us to where we are today. They kill humanity over religion, they divide humanity over religion, they conquer humanity over religion.

They deny and ignore humanity over religion.

 

[Godless]

Why is it so difficult to show compassion for/to theists and their ilk??

Atheist show compassion, we'r not out killing every muslim, jew, krishna, catholic, christian of any of 33000 denominations etc.. We are not out killing for religion period. That's compasionate enough.

But on the other hand look what we got to deal with:

The begining of cooperation between church and state. (Smells fishy, but with delusional leaders, we get more wars, and our problems get worst.)

TV evangelist in every freaking channel (if you don't have cable) every Sunday morning, some towns have more churches than gas stations, some cities have a church just about every three blocks. God printed on our money, God in our pledge of allegiance. Were the hell is the separation from church & state?.

Wars since the birth of Kilgamesh, witch burnings, child molestations by the clergy, genocides of Mayan tribes and others of South America, Crusades, Inquisitions, delusional mental desease, schizophrenias.

If one were to really look hard and intergrate world history, the one's who have never shown much compasion are the religious zealots, for history shows that with the bible or Qua'ran on one hand, and the sword on another the religious nuts of the world have only brouth, ingnorance, war, famine, and the willfull destruction of human andvancement.

Godless

 

[SnakeLord]

As far as you've noticed to african believers, I think only hundreds or less native africans are christians.

An entirely unssuported 'belief', claimed not through knowledge, but through the same idiotic 'faith' that you religious guys seem to revel in.

That's true biblically speaking, many poor are called by God to have a fellowship with Christ and not may a rich people are called.

Yes, the poor are more easily owned. They do not question as much, instead just happy to believe they will end up 'rich'.

By experience as a thinker, I listened to every TV stations before who happened to broadcast teachings of the Bible.

You mean bible salesmen? That is their job - to entice young, 'poor' people like yourself into their gang. To get you to donate the small amount of money that you do have to line their pockets. I suppose if you had have listened to TV stations promoting buddhism, you'd now be living inTibet.

I also went to libraries for the sake of religious readings.

Such as? Give me a list..

Thus, I became christian, born not by the will of flesh, but by the call of God through the gospel of His Power and Wisdom

No. By your own admission above, called by TV salesemen and library books, not by a sky being. I've read all of Mark Twain's work and consider myself a serious fan of Twain. What you're saying is akin to me saying I am a Twain fan because his ghost told me to be.

Now for the sake of those who don't understand, it's spiritual and not natural.

No it isn't. It's: the natural lure of a 'poor' person by salesmen. It happens the world over, from hoover salesmen to god salesmen - you are merely someone who has bought a product based upon the praise of someone who's job it is to sell you that product.

Don't feel bad about it, salesemen can be very convincing. Hell, my wife bought a vertical chicken roaster because of some salesman. It is their job, and salesmen only last in their jobs if they are damn good at it.

You can't grasp my stand if you are natural (all for the sake of nature).

I'm sorry but you're talking English. You are not talking sky-fairy language, and thus your 'stand' is entirely graspable and natural. And can you please stop using the word "nature" in such fashion. What you actually mean and imply is "reality", so have the courage to use the bloody word.

Remember, if there are concrete things, there are abstract things too.

Certainly, and if there are real things, there are unreal things too. What's your point?

 

[Russ723]

I am a stone cold atheist (as if you couldn't already tell). I don't have any problem with other people's religious beliefs provided they don't harm others, legislate their beliefs , or educate with them.

 

[nameless]

Perhaps we all have different ideas of 'compassion'. I was unaware that 'compassion' aught to only be reserved for people with whom we agree and are 'comfortable'. It is easy to 'love' those who 'love' us.. Of what value then? We discriminate based on comfort levels? Seems rather shallow to me. Everyone does that. Is 'compassion' not seen as a 'higher' human quality that might be encouraged in the individual, especially one living in community with others? In other words, if it's a 'good thing', would it not be 'better' if not dealt out in a miserly fashion. Actually, 'compassion' is not something we 'deal out' it is a 'state of being'.

 

[Godless]

I was unaware that 'compassion' aught to only be reserved for people with whom we agree and are 'comfortable'.

Not necesarily, however this is a forum I'd never meet anyone here face to face wether they disagree or agree with my views. Compassion is a tricky word, do you want me to feel pity for these lost souls who still believe in farie tales?. Id pitty them yes, I hold no compassion for the willing to be ingnorant. I would hold compassion for those who have suffered in New Orleans, and wish I could do something, but my resources wont allow this. I'm gratefull that Galveston didn't get hit, I have very good friends living there.

It is easy to 'love' those who 'love' us.. Of what value then?

Are you asking me to love my next door neighbor?. He beats his wife, they wake me up at night, he's an alcoholic, I pitty them, I have compassion for her, but I don't love them. They are not part of my concern nor my family. On the other hand, do you think that they feel pitty for making all that noice at night? Do you think that he feels any compassion? Well he did apolegize once, but that was about it. I don't think he loves me, and neither does she, if she did, Id have problems!

Everyone does that. Is 'compassion' not seen as a 'higher' human quality that might be encouraged in the individual, especially one living in community with others?

This depends on situations. I don't think pitty is a higher quality of men, this is alturism, do you think it's my rightfull duty to feed every hungry vagarant that I see?. Should I feel pitty that the city poor, are living off welfare, of which comes out of my hard earned money?. I don't pitty the poor, I'm one of them, I live check by check, pay my bills and put a bit away, I've raised myself from beign a drug adict, to a self sustained man, I asked no pitty from anyone, I know and knew that my situation was because of me. Should I now feel pitty for the alcoholic down the street begging for money?. No! I've been there, done that. I know for a fact that he's responsible for his own choices, why should I feel compassion when he chooses a life of vagarantcy?.

Actually, 'compassion' is not something we 'deal out' it is a 'state of being'.

No. Your are talking here that one should put others concern above theirs, that one should care about others, more than oneself care about himself The above is truly a defenition of being alturist. That is putting others welfare above one self. To hell with that.

Godless.

 

[enton]

Such as? Give me a list..

Your screen name. It took me years to study the etymology of "Lord" and the real and nominal meaning of the word "Snake"?

 

[SnakeLord]

Many years ago I was given the nickname 'Snakeman' because I had several pet snakes which, just out of interest, do not eat dust - contrary to biblical opinion. Anyway, I later became an avid UO player, (an mmorpg with knights, mages and monsters). When it came to picking a character name I thought that 'Snakeman' didn't really fit with the type of game, so I changed it to Lord.

There you go, that's now been explained.. so how about you give me a list?

(btw, why did it take years? A quick google search for word origins should take around 5 minutes).

 

[stretched]

Quote nameless:
"Perhaps we all have different ideas of 'compassion'."

* Compassion can be felt, but need not be expressed in actions. True compassion has no agenda.

 

[nameless]

Compassion is a tricky word, do you want me to feel pity for these lost souls who still believe in farie tales?. Id pitty them yes, I hold no compassion for the willing to be ingnorant. I would hold compassion for those who have suffered in New Orleans,...

Perhaps it might clear my meanings up a bit if I shared my definitionof 'compassion'. It is derived from a source that has honed and highly values 'compassion', the Buddha;

"Compassion means that we recognise another's need for their present condition, and give them our love and understanding."

(I agree with you, stretched, when you say that, "True compassion has no agenda.")

The 'ignorant' suffer more than anyone.

Pity, feeling sorry for someone, on the other hand, is nothing but ego stroking.

Are you asking me to love my next door neighbor?.

I'm sorry, I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm just recommending compassion as an alternate state of consciousness for the benefits personally derived. There is much that hate, intollerance, judgementalism, meannastyness, etc... provides in the way of ego strokes, emotional cheap thrills, even as an addiction. I'm just suggesting that there can be something a bit 'healthier' that might make our world a bit.. 'brighter'.. for 'self' and all 'others'. I'm not telling you to do or think anything. Be honest in yourself. If your nature is such that you would strangle your neighbor, do it. I'm just offering possible alternative possibilities.

He beats his wife, they wake me up at night, he's an alcoholic, I pitty them, I have compassion for her, but I don't love them. They are not part of my concern nor my family. On the other hand, do you think that they feel pitty for making all that noice at night? Do you think that he feels any compassion? Well he did apolegize once, but that was about it. I don't think he loves me, and neither does she, if she did, Id have problems!

Tell me, can/do you distinguish between someone's actions and who they might 'be' as a 'self'? Or, perhaps, do you accept one's behavior and words as a defining factor of one's basic 'self', inextricably 'involved'? If so, when one exhibits 'different' behavior, is one a 'different' person, at a basic level?
What do you think?

This depends on situations. I don't think pitty is a higher quality of men, this is alturism,

Again, I think that I spoke to this question above. Pity is ego strokes. And I have never seen or experienced 'altruism' so I have no idea if it 'exists'. It always seems to boil down to 'good feelings' or some sort of personal reward. It is always a 'stroke' to 'help' someone out...

do you think it's my rightfull duty

I'm not speaking of 'duty'. Not yours, anyway. That is your personal business. I feel my 'duty' is to be honest and authentic with myself. To be true to my nature (as if there were anything else that I could do!)

why should I feel compassion when he chooses a life of vagarantcy?.

Again we are back to the question, 'are we our actions?'

No. Your are talking here that one should put others concern above theirs,

WOW!!! Another fly in the ointment. I know that our pseudo-Xtian society seems to place some value on that type of insanity. I do not. If you do not follow your own star, no one will do it for you and you'll have no one to blame for your starless life but yourself. Xtian martyrism is insanity. Every 'true believer' that I have known seemed to suffer from that martyr complex... would never be happier than to die for their 'beliefs'. Personally, I don't see the attraction of 'sitting on the right hand of god.' Sounds bloody uncomfortable! Hahahahha.....

 

[enton]

There you go, that's now been explained.. so how about you give me a list?

Books or libraries? In search for the truth, I went to local libraries (city and school libraries in my hometown). I looked up the contents of old books pertaining to history, archaeology, philosophy and religion. I also investigated books of Roman Catholic Authors, Bahai, Mormonism, Biblical Encyclopedia, Dictionary of Fables, Dictionary of Dates but more prominently, I did intensive readings on science encyclopedias. But in all readings, I did not forget in looking up the meanings of words in dictionaries (whether obsolete or modern English dictionaries). I also refered to poetic writings. Sad to say, I was not confident enough in all my searches by books. So, I tried to listen to TV preachers, especially those who had opened a religious program with Q & A portion. I then realized that the Bible is sufficient as a guide for people's life here on earth and beyond his life on earth. Many people misunderstood the messages of the passages in the Bible as far as their preconception is concerned. I may mention a book (in my hand now) which recounts myths. It's title is "Myths to Live By" by Joseph Campbell. It was in 1998 when I began to listen to Bro. Eli as a televangelist in the Philippines with a religious program "Ask Soriano, the Bible answers" and it was in those times that I was concentrating to read the book of Joseph Campbell "Myths to Live By". Oh, it was an amazing events in my readings since as long as I objected the findings of Campbell about the Bible being erroneous and fictitious, what I got from listening to "The Old Path" and "Ask Soriano, the Bible answers" were sufficient and efficient to support the Bible as an authentic writings from men inspired by God. So, I began to incline my attention to listen to any religious programs available in the Philippines but as far as I listened to other religious programs, I hadn't come across the mouth which was speaking truth biblically. It was only to Bro. Eli Soriano (our presiding minister).(I think I shall not continue, since it will turn out that I am testifying here to walls.Sorry for that.)

(btw, why did it take years? A quick google search for word origins should take around 5 minutes).

It was because I only learned internet by 2002 all by myself. (Of course, I learned internet by inquiry and instruction. You know, internet shop attendants were very helpful to me.)

 

[nameless]

Y'all ever wonder what sort of ... person.. 'believes' and sends their money to those televangelical sheep-fleecers on the idiot box and radio??
*__-

 

[Sarkus]

Y'all ever wonder what sort of ... person.. 'believes' and sends their money to those televangelical sheep-fleecers on the idiot box and radio??
*__-

Probably the same kind that pays for other forms of guidance in their lives (psychotherapy, anyone?)

 

[enton]

Y'all ever wonder what sort of ... person.. 'believes' and sends their money to those televangelical sheep-fleecers on the idiot box and radio??
*__-

See. He seemed to be relating his experience to any televangelists, though he does not personally met whom I was talking about.