A question for atheists

[Dreamwalker]

Ok, you are right. It is pretty empirical and up to the recipient to interpret the teachings. This would probably result in individual actions, which are only influenced to a small part by the teachings.

 

[path]

Let me give you an example of what I mean.

Music- like singing and dancing is forbidden in Islam.

Now let me ask you are there Muslims or in Muslim countries, where music, singing, and dancing is taking place?

If you were truthful then you would answer "yes"!. Now I ask you are those people following what Islam teaches. Obvious answer is NO!

So let me answer your question now. Nowdays people are not following the teachings of Islam in entirety. They are comitting sins.

And by the way there are people who are so-called Muslims aswell.

Some don't believe Muhammad as the last prophet. (This is one of the pillars of Islam)
Some don't pray. (This is another of the pillars of Islam)
Some don't pay Zakaat. (This is another pillar of Islam)
Some do not Fast even though are able to. (Another pillar of Islam)
Some do not go to the Hajj even though they are capable to. (Another pillar of Islam)

The people who do the above things are NO MUSLIMS! But they think they are, which is extremely sad.

Now tell me are they following the teachings of Islam. Obvious answer is NO!

I don't know where you got that people are following the teachings of Islam. This is a simple assertion.

Even I don't follow Islam correctly. And I feel guilty for that. I ask the forgiveness of God, and ask him to help me to the right path. But I don't think you will understand.

Peace be unto you

We undestand what you are saying, you can't understand how twisted it is.
Does the quran say music is evil or is it just in hadith?
It is truly amazing that we kafirs enjoy music and god has rewarded us while most of the islamic world, where even those that follow islam incorrectly are still closer to what allah demands than we are, wallows in poverty, ignorance and frustration. Allah must be some vindictive joker

 

[786]

We undestand what you are saying, you can't understand how twisted it is.
Does the quran say music is evil or is it just in hadith?
It is truly amazing that we kafirs enjoy music and god has rewarded us while most of the islamic world, where even those that follow islam incorrectly are still closer to what allah demands than we are, wallows in poverty, ignorance and frustration. Allah must be some vindictive joker

Actually you are wrong. God tells us that the believers know the truth, so they should not defy it. If they do, then God will punish them, and will not bestow his blessings upon the people. This is the case in most countries. All the governments of the Muslim countries are corrupt. The people are not following the religion right. But God will Inshallah (God willing) correct everyone to the right path. That is the only cause of the demise of the Muslims. If you read history. At the time of Muhammad pbuh it was the Golden Age. Every field was advancing and Muslims were living the lives very good. Those were people who were afraid of God, and followed to the best of their abbilities. They submitted themselves to God, and crushed their desires. Now most people are on the wrong path.

Peace be unto you

 

[mis-t-highs]

What I will will loose if you are correct (no god exists) and I'm (the believer) wrong?

if your happy being a believer then you will loose nothing, when you die, is the only time we will find out, I think, if your wrong and I am right, you wont know, you will be dead.
if your right and I am wrong, then thats great for you, you get to be with your master, and I will proberly say, oh shit.

 

[path]

Actually you are wrong. God tells us that the believers know the truth, so they should not defy it. If they do, then God will punish them, and will not bestow his blessings upon the people. This is the case in most countries. All the governments of the Muslim countries are corrupt. The people are not following the religion right. But God will Inshallah (God willing) correct everyone to the right path. That is the only cause of the demise of the Muslims. If you read history. At the time of Muhammad pbuh it was the Golden Age. Every field was advancing and Muslims were living the lives very good. Those were people who were afraid of God, and followed to the best of their abbilities. They submitted themselves to God, and crushed their desires. Now most people are on the wrong path.

Peace be unto you

Actually at the time after muhammed it was a golden age for muslims and warfare and suffering for mostly everyone else who stood in the way. This still doesn't address the question of why the kafirs are rewarded but not the muslims.

 

[786]

Actually at the time after muhammed it was a golden age for muslims and warfare and suffering for mostly everyone else who stood in the way. This still doesn't address the question of why the kafirs are rewarded but not the muslims.

Al-Baqarah Verse 13 "And when it is said to them (hypocrites): "Believe as the people (followers of Muhammad (peace be upon him) Al-Ansâr and Al-Muhajirûn) have believed," they say: "Shall we believe as the fools have believed?" Verily, they are the fools, but they know not."

Al-Baqarah Verse 15 "Allâh mocks at them and gives them increase in their wrong-doings to wander blindly."

Your answer is in verse 15.

Peace be unto you

 

[path]

Al-Baqarah Verse 13 And when it is said to them (hypocrites): "Believe as the people (followers of Muhammad (peace be upon him) Al-Ansâr and Al-Muhajirûn) have believed," they say: "Shall we believe as the fools have believed?" Verily, they are the fools, but they know not.

Al-Baqarah Verse 15 Allâh mocks at them and gives them increase in their wrong-doings to wander blindly.

Your answer is in verse 15.

Peace be unto you

No, that is referring to muslims not kafiren. He will continue to punish muslims he doesn't mention unbelievers being rewarded.

 

[Godless]

786 is a muslim, he claims that he lives by the good book Quaran, well then what does the quaran teach.

2: The Cow

# Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 6

# Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 10

# A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 24

# Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 39, 90

# For disbelievers is a painful doom. 104

# For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 114

# Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 126

# The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 162

# They will not emerge from the Fire. 167

# Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 174

# How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 175

# Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 191

# War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 216

# Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 217

# Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 257

Mind you this only one chapter.!.

So where's the "pease loving muslim" get's his lessons? because it surely as hell is not from the Quaran.

Godless.

 

[path]

786 is a muslim, he claims that he lives by the good book Quaran, well then what does the quaran teach.

2: The Cow

# Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 6

# Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 10

# A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 24

# Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 39, 90

# For disbelievers is a painful doom. 104

# For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 114

# Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 126

# The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 162

# They will not emerge from the Fire. 167

# Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 174

# How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 175

# Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 191

# War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 216

# Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 217

# Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 257

Mind you this only one chapter.!.

So where's the "pease loving muslim" get's his lessons? because it surely as hell is not from the Quaran.

Godless.

Hey with all that fire we better bring along hotdogs and marshmellows for toasting I would say allah is a little bit of a pyromaniac if this is only from one chapter, someone better get those matches away from him.

 

[786]

Those verses are talking about disbeliever. They will burn in hell fire. It has nothing to do with "how peaceful muslims are".

There is no use to discuss with you. Because you seem to mock the Quran, and make fun of God.

This is why I don't wish to continue.

May God forgive your sins. Ameen.

Peace be unto you

 

[Godless]

See folkes, show the quran to their face, and they don't want to continue discusing anything else, BTW, we are the disbelievers, we are the ones your precious alla is threatining to destroy, your religion is no different from any other religion, it's all mythology.

Godless.

 

[786]

I would continue to talk but you seem to me as mocking the Quran and Allah. And as for "show the quran to their face" I already know this stuff. It is saying that the disbelievers will burn in hell. That is why God says that come a believer, and God will bless his mercy upon you.

You might be living good in this world, but you won't in the here-after. But you don't believe in the here-after so you won't understand.

Peace be unto you

 

[§outh§tar]

Hey with all that fire we better bring along hotdogs and marshmellows for toasting I would say allah is a little bit of a pyromaniac if this is only from one chapter, someone better get those matches away from him.

allah never had a mother to teach him any better.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

§our§tar: allah never had a mother to teach him any better.
*************
M*W: I've got bad news for you. Al-lah is just another pronounciation of the name of God El-loh-im in Genesis. There is only One God, whatever name you call it, there's only One.

 

[firdroirich]

What I will will loose if you are correct (no god exists)

"You only possess that which you cannot lose in a shipwreck." Regardless of your beliefs.

The believer is he who fears not hell, nor covets heaven as El Ghazzali put it - by this you shouldn't really be expecting to gain anything either.

 

[Godless]

You might be living good in this world, but you won't in the here-after. But you don't believe in the here-after so you won't understand.

I don't live by threats, I don't believe in your Allah, Qu'ran, Christianity, Bible, or any mythological b.s.

*What is mysticism? Mysticism is the acceptance of allegations without evidence or proof, either apart from or against the evidence of one's senses and one's reason. Mysticism is the claim to some non-sensory, non-rational, non-definable, non-identifiable means of knowledge, such as 'instinct,' 'intuition,' 'revelation,' or any form of 'just knowing.'"
- From "Faith and Force: The Destroyers of the Modern World"

"To the [mystic], as to an animal, the irreducible primary is the automatic phenomena of his own consciousness. An animal has no critical faculty; he has no control over the function of his brain and no power to question its content. To an animal, whatever strikes his awareness is an absolute that corresponds to reality - or rather, it is a distinction he is incapable of making: reality, to him, is whatever he senses or feels. And this is the [mystic's] epistemological ideal, the mode of consciousness he strives to induce in himself. To the [mystic], emotions are tools of cognition, and wishes take precedence over facts. He seeks to escape the risks of a quest for knowledge by obliterating the distinction between consciousness and reality, between the perceiver and the perceived, hoping that an automatic certainty and an infallible knowledge of the universe will be granted to him by the blind, unfocused stare of his eyes turned inward, contemplating the sensations, the feelings, the urgings, the muggy associational twistings projected by the rudderless mechanism of his undirected consciousness. Whatever his mechanism produces is an absolute not to be questioned; and whenever it clashes with reality, it is reality that he ignores."

"Since the clash is constant, the [mystic's] solution is to believe that what he perceives is another, 'higher' reality - where his wishes are omnipotent, where contradictions are possible and A is non-A, where his assertions, which are false on earth, become true and acquire the status of a 'superior' truth which he perceives by means of a special faculty denied to other, 'inferior,' beings. The only validation of his consciousness he can obtain on earth is the belief and the obedience of others, when they accept his 'truth' as superior to their own perception of reality."
-From For the New Intellectual

"A mystic is a man who surrendered his mind at its first encounter with the minds of others. Somewhere in the distant reaches of his childhood, when his own understanding of reality clashed with the assertions of others, with their arbitrary orders and contradictory demands, he gave in to so craven a fear of independence that he renounced his rational faculty. At the crossroads of the choice between 'I know' and 'They say,' he chose the authority of others, he chose to submit rather than to understand, to believe rather than to think. Faith in the supernatural begins as faith in the superiority of others. His surrender took the form of the feeling that he must hide his lack of understanding, that others possess some mysterious knowledge of which he alone is deprived, that reality is whatever they want it to be, through some means forever denied to him."

"From then on, afraid to think, he is left at the mercy of unidentified feelings. His feelings become his only guide, his only remnant of personal identity, he clings to them with ferocious possessiveness - and whatever thinking he does is devoted to the struggle of hiding from himself that the nature of his feelings is terror."

"When a mystic declares that he feels the existence of a power superior to reason, he feels it all right, but that power is not an omniscient superspirit of the universe, it is the consciousness of any passer-by to whom he has surrendered his own. A mystic is driven by the urge to impress, to cheat, to flatter, to deceive, to force that omnipotent consciousness on others. 'They' are his only key to reality, he feels that he cannot exist save by harnessing their mysterious power and extorting their unaccountable consent. 'They' are his only means of perception and, like a blind man who depends on the sight of a dog, he feels he must leash them in order to live. To control the consciousness of others becomes his only passion; power-lust is a weed that grows only in the vacant lots of an abandoned mind."* Ayn Rand.

Godless.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I don't live by threats, I don't believe in your Allah, Qu'ran, Christianity, Bible, or any mythological b.s.

*What is mysticism? Mysticism is the acceptance of allegations without evidence or proof, either apart from or against the evidence of one's senses and one's reason. Mysticism is the claim to some non-sensory, non-rational, non-definable, non-identifiable means of knowledge, such as 'instinct,' 'intuition,' 'revelation,' or any form of 'just knowing.'"
- From "Faith and Force: The Destroyers of the Modern World"

"To the [mystic], as to an animal, the irreducible primary is the automatic phenomena of his own consciousness. An animal has no critical faculty; he has no control over the function of his brain and no power to question its content. To an animal, whatever strikes his awareness is an absolute that corresponds to reality - or rather, it is a distinction he is incapable of making: reality, to him, is whatever he senses or feels. And this is the [mystic's] epistemological ideal, the mode of consciousness he strives to induce in himself. To the [mystic], emotions are tools of cognition, and wishes take precedence over facts. He seeks to escape the risks of a quest for knowledge by obliterating the distinction between consciousness and reality, between the perceiver and the perceived, hoping that an automatic certainty and an infallible knowledge of the universe will be granted to him by the blind, unfocused stare of his eyes turned inward, contemplating the sensations, the feelings, the urgings, the muggy associational twistings projected by the rudderless mechanism of his undirected consciousness. Whatever his mechanism produces is an absolute not to be questioned; and whenever it clashes with reality, it is reality that he ignores."

"Since the clash is constant, the [mystic's] solution is to believe that what he perceives is another, 'higher' reality - where his wishes are omnipotent, where contradictions are possible and A is non-A, where his assertions, which are false on earth, become true and acquire the status of a 'superior' truth which he perceives by means of a special faculty denied to other, 'inferior,' beings. The only validation of his consciousness he can obtain on earth is the belief and the obedience of others, when they accept his 'truth' as superior to their own perception of reality."
-From For the New Intellectual

"A mystic is a man who surrendered his mind at its first encounter with the minds of others. Somewhere in the distant reaches of his childhood, when his own understanding of reality clashed with the assertions of others, with their arbitrary orders and contradictory demands, he gave in to so craven a fear of independence that he renounced his rational faculty. At the crossroads of the choice between 'I know' and 'They say,' he chose the authority of others, he chose to submit rather than to understand, to believe rather than to think. Faith in the supernatural begins as faith in the superiority of others. His surrender took the form of the feeling that he must hide his lack of understanding, that others possess some mysterious knowledge of which he alone is deprived, that reality is whatever they want it to be, through some means forever denied to him."

"From then on, afraid to think, he is left at the mercy of unidentified feelings. His feelings become his only guide, his only remnant of personal identity, he clings to them with ferocious possessiveness - and whatever thinking he does is devoted to the struggle of hiding from himself that the nature of his feelings is terror."

"When a mystic declares that he feels the existence of a power superior to reason, he feels it all right, but that power is not an omniscient superspirit of the universe, it is the consciousness of any passer-by to whom he has surrendered his own. A mystic is driven by the urge to impress, to cheat, to flatter, to deceive, to force that omnipotent consciousness on others. 'They' are his only key to reality, he feels that he cannot exist save by harnessing their mysterious power and extorting their unaccountable consent. 'They' are his only means of perception and, like a blind man who depends on the sight of a dog, he feels he must leash them in order to live. To control the consciousness of others becomes his only passion; power-lust is a weed that grows only in the vacant lots of an abandoned mind."* Ayn Rand.

Godless.

Nice.

 

[7x7]

why you are saying i don't have a good life?
why you are saying i'm wasting time in worshiping god (25 minutes per day) is not a big deal
why you are saying i'm close minded.?


so what will happen to me after death? same to you or else?

i think i'm on the safe side.

if i'm correct = then i might end in heavens
if i'm wrong = then nothing will happen to me.

i'm on the safe side.

 

[7x7]

Time, ideas, possibilities, thoughts...

(BTW, what will you lose if you believe in the wrong god?)

the same what atheists will.

 

[7x7]

Same things that are lost already:

Ability to distinguish between reality and fantasy, ability to effectively use reasoning, ability to attain beyond a certain level of understanding, ability to utilize / recognize factual knowledge, accountibility, responsibility, trust, time, money... (I am sure there is more).

i do have all of these and more..why you think religion keeps you away from it. why don't religions mix between them.