A question for atheists

[7x7]

What I will will loose if you are correct (no god exists) and I'm (the believer) wrong?

 

[Dreamwalker]

Time, ideas, possibilities, thoughts...

(BTW, what will you lose if you believe in the wrong god?)

 

[(Q)]

You lose it everyday of your life, and that is the time spent in worshipping imaginary gods and in the preparation of an imaginary after-life.

 

[Dreamwalker]

Also, it is not entirely about gain and loss, it is also about truth and what you perceive as such.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

What I will will loose if you are correct (no god exists) and I'm (the believer) wrong?

Same things that are lost already:

Ability to distinguish between reality and fantasy, ability to effectively use reasoning, ability to attain beyond a certain level of understanding, ability to utilize / recognize factual knowledge, accountibility, responsibility, trust, time, money... (I am sure there is more).

In my opinion, I would not focus on what is being lost. I would focus on
what is being gained and I would pose a question back to you:

What do you think is gained if someone does not accept unproven claims
as fact?

 

[786]

I will tell you what I will gain. A Rightious life. The religion teaches you, at least Islam, very good diciplines, and how to live your life.

Peace be unto you

 

[Dreamwalker]

I don´t need religion for that. I have self discipline and can live my life accordingly.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I will tell you what I will gain. A Rightious life. The religion teaches you, at least Islam, very good diciplines, and how to live your life.

Peace be unto you

The Muslim philosophy, called Islam, is centered around the concept of
submitting one's self to a super- natural entity named 'Allah' whom has provided the world with a book (called the Quran) of VERY explicit historical
information, goals, objectives, actions, behaviors, and values ultimately for
the primary purposes of:

* Achieving peace.
* Achieving world domination.
* Achieving political success through argument and violence.
* Denying the stimulus that leads to various negative human behaviors.
* Achieving entry into eternal paradise after death.

The Islamic philosophy is so explicit that it cannot adapt to a modern society
and this results in:

* General socio-economic regression for the average Muslim.
* A bewhilderment and frustration that Islam does not already rule the world.
* The creation of a disproportionate number of homicidal and suicidal militants.
* A disproportionate number of physical abuses amongst Muslims.
* A disproportionate number of sexual abuses amongst Muslims.
* A disproportionate number of emotional abuses amongst Muslims.
* A disproportionate number of physhological abuses amongst Muslims.
* The equating of 'people = objects' to children (which consequently is strongly
linked to violent behaviors)
* A lack of accountibility.
* A mentality of being victims of the world (the 'West' being the trendy target
right now).

I suspect as the world grows, Islam will remain in it's static state and the
distance between Islam and the rest of the world will widen. When that
distance exceeds an unknown milestone, the overly-stretched link between
Islam and the rest of the world may snap.

The most fundamental law of nature is that those whom can adapt have a
much greater chance of survival. I suppose that one of the things that
Atheism would give you is the ability to adapt (something that Islam cannot).

 

[fadeaway humper]

Oh boy, Pascal's Wager rears its incredibly stupid head again.

If no god exists, you will have lost the chance NOT to go through life as a brainwashed zombie. Simple as that. Even if god exists, you will still have gone through life as a brainwashed zombie.

Some of us value our dignity more than that, you know.

 

[786]

The Muslim philosophy, called Islam, is centered around the concept of
submitting one's self to a super- natural entity named 'Allah' whom has provided the world with a book (called the Quran) of VERY explicit historical
information, goals, objectives, actions, behaviors, and values ultimately for
the primary purposes of:

* Achieving peace.
* Achieving world domination.
* Achieving political success through argument and violence.
* Denying the stimulus that leads to various negative human behaviors.
* Achieving entry into eternal paradise after death.

The Islamic philosophy is so explicit that it cannot adapt to a modern society
and this results in:

* General socio-economic regression for the average Muslim.
* A bewhilderment and frustration that Islam does not already rule the world.
* The creation of a disproportionate number of homicidal and suicidal militants.
* A disproportionate number of physical abuses amongst Muslims.
* A disproportionate number of sexual abuses amongst Muslims.
* A disproportionate number of emotional abuses amongst Muslims.
* A disproportionate number of physhological abuses amongst Muslims.
* The equating of 'people = objects' to children (which consequently is strongly
linked to violent behaviors)
* A lack of accountibility.
* A mentality of being victims of the world (the 'West' being the trendy target
right now).

I suspect as the world grows, Islam will remain in it's static state and the
distance between Islam and the rest of the world will widen. When that
distance exceeds an unknown milestone, the overly-stretched link between
Islam and the rest of the world may snap.

The most fundamental law of nature is that those whom can adapt have a
much greater chance of survival. I suppose that one of the things that
Atheism would give you is the ability to adapt (something that Islam cannot).

You are talking about things that the PEOPLE are doing. Nothing about the teachings of Islam.

This is common reaction when you don't know the religion itself.

Peace be unto you

 

[Dreamwalker]

But don´t people act on the basis of what was taught to them?

 

[Athelwulf]

I've always thought so.

 

[path]

You will lose what Dreamwalker and Q said but you will also lose the ability to view your fellow human beings without classifying them as damned or saved, with you or against you, a brother in faith or an infidel. In short you lose the ability to look at other human beings as just that fellow human beings.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

You are talking about things that the PEOPLE are doing. Nothing about the teachings of Islam.

This is common reaction when you don't know the religion itself.

Peace be unto you

It is completely valid to judge Islam by it's results.

 

[Lemming3k]

I agree with dreamwalker, Q, and path on this one.

 

[Repo Man]

An excellent refutation of Pascal's Wager is provided here.

 

[786]

Let me give you an example of what I mean.

Music- like singing and dancing is forbidden in Islam.

Now let me ask you are there Muslims or in Muslim countries, where music, singing, and dancing is taking place?

If you were truthful then you would answer "yes"!. Now I ask you are those people following what Islam teaches. Obvious answer is NO!

So let me answer your question now. Nowdays people are not following the teachings of Islam in entirety. They are comitting sins.

And by the way there are people who are so-called Muslims aswell.

Some don't believe Muhammad as the last prophet. (This is one of the pillars of Islam)
Some don't pray. (This is another of the pillars of Islam)
Some don't pay Zakaat. (This is another pillar of Islam)
Some do not Fast even though are able to. (Another pillar of Islam)
Some do not go to the Hajj even though they are capable to. (Another pillar of Islam)

The people who do the above things are NO MUSLIMS! But they think they are, which is extremely sad.

Now tell me are they following the teachings of Islam. Obvious answer is NO!

I don't know where you got that people are following the teachings of Islam. This is a simple assertion.

Even I don't follow Islam correctly. And I feel guilty for that. I ask the forgiveness of God, and ask him to help me to the right path. But I don't think you will understand.

Peace be unto you

 

[(Q)]

786

Good post btw, but just to nitpick:

Nowdays people are not following the teachings of Islam in entirety. They are comitting sins.

Sin is relevant to those who follow the teachings of Islam, therefore if one does not follow those teachings, one is not obliged to concern themselves with the consequences of sin.

 

[(Q)]

Music- like singing and dancing is forbidden in Islam.



Without music, life is a journey through a desert
--Pat Conroy

Music creates order out of chaos: for rhythm imposes unanimity upon the divergent, melody imposes continuity upon the disjointed, and harmony imposes compatibility upon the incongruous.
--Yehudi Menuhin

It is only by introducing the young to great literature, drama and music, and to the excitement of great science that we open to them the possibilities that lie within the human spirit -- enable them to see visions and dream dreams.
--Eric Anderson

Most of us go to our grave with our music still inside of us.
--Unknown

Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent.
--Victor Hugo

Where words fail, music speaks.
--Hans Christian Andersen

All the sounds of the earth are like music.
--Oscar Hammerstein

 

[sargentlard]

But don´t people act on the basis of what was taught to them?

Not when the teachings are subjective and call for discerning between right and wrong though one's own inhibitions and personality. Then ocnflicts occur

For example: Math - You apply it in life as you were taught to. There is only certain steps and the outcome will be either right or wrong...it is an all or no event. One can not take liberties with Math's applications (or baking for that matter)

Religion - You are told to do good by others, be peaceful, respect others....so rightly you're expect others to do the same towards you but, that does not happen very often....this causes problems. However, most of the time the problem turns out to be that religious ideals conflict with real world ideals.

Religion never understood that the urge to gain closure on the unexplained pales compared to the urge to be happy and survive.