a question about the Tawhid

[robtex]

Tawhid, if I understand it correctly, (tell me if I am wrong) is the faith in the Unity of God

souce

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/tawheed/mautaw1.html

I received the following email from something called daily muslim wisdom (trying to learn religon to ask intelligently about it)

In the Tawhid from the link provided I read ,

"Tawhid is the highest conception of godhead, the knowledge of which God has sent mankind in all ages through His Prophets. It was this knowledge with which, in the beginning, Adam was sent down to earth; it was the same knowledge that was revealed to Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (God's blessings be upon them all). It was this knowledge which Muhammad (blessings of Allah and peace be upon him) brought to mankind. It is Knowledge, pure and absolute, without the least shade of ignorance. Man became guilty of shirk, idol-worship and kufr only because he turned away from the teachings of the Prophets and depended on his own faulty reasoning, false perceptions or biased interpretations. Tawhid dispels all the clouds of ignorance and illuminates the horizon with the light of reality."

The Christian God spoke to Noah Abe Moses and Jesus as did Allah....are they one and the same? and is knowing Yahweh and Allah knowing the same God but perhaps a clairty over some of the details by one side or the other?

the bottom link may come in handy to non-muslims in the future....it an islamic database for non muslims to learn from

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/glossary.html

 

[surenderer]

Tawhid, if I understand it correctly, (tell me if I am wrong) is the faith in the Unity of God

souce

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/tawheed/mautaw1.html

I received the following email from something called daily muslim wisdom (trying to learn religon to ask intelligently about it)

In the Tawhid from the link provided I read ,

"Tawhid is the highest conception of godhead, the knowledge of which God has sent mankind in all ages through His Prophets. It was this knowledge with which, in the beginning, Adam was sent down to earth; it was the same knowledge that was revealed to Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (God's blessings be upon them all). It was this knowledge which Muhammad (blessings of Allah and peace be upon him) brought to mankind. It is Knowledge, pure and absolute, without the least shade of ignorance. Man became guilty of shirk, idol-worship and kufr only because he turned away from the teachings of the Prophets and depended on his own faulty reasoning, false perceptions or biased interpretations. Tawhid dispels all the clouds of ignorance and illuminates the horizon with the light of reality."

The Christian God spoke to Noah Abe Moses and Jesus as did Allah....are they one and the same? and is knowing Yahweh and Allah knowing the same God but perhaps a clairty over some of the details by one side or the other?

the bottom link may come in handy to non-muslims in the future....it an islamic database for non muslims to learn from

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/glossary.html

Muslims believe( May God help me explain this properly to you) in Tawhid as a matter of fact central to Islamic belief is the oneness or unity (in Arabic: tawhid) of Allah, or God; this is expressed in the basic statement of faith (the shahadah ): "There is no god but god". Muslims dont believe in a "Christian God" or a "Muslim God" we believe in one God whom is the same one that created Adam(pbuh) Noah (pbuh) etc.... Notice that they didnt teach trinity or any association with God at all the taught Tawhid (oneness of God) remember that the word Allah means that (as best as I can get it in English) Supreme Ultimate. It has no gender form nor is it male or female nor can it be made plural like the word God( god's etc..) I usually use the word God on these forums (unless quoting the Koran) simply to not alienate anyone or to put us all on a common level


This link can explains things better than i can :

http://sl.cometsystems.com/r?u=http...inkt&v=18&origin=asearch&src_id=312&tmpl=1Ben

 

[Sufi]

If we consider the oneness of Allah as explained in the Koran that ALLAH is AHAD (the ultimate ONE), the SAMAD, (the Whole), LAMYALEED (UNDIVIDED from something else), LAMYULAD (UNBROKEN, UNFRAGMENTED) ---the Chapter of Unity--, then we come to understand that:

There is only one single SYSTEM and ORDER that operates in the universe that is organized by the unseparated, undivided basic wholeness, the ultimate oneness, and that we all are subject to, which was tried to be explained to mankind by its perceivers, what you call the prophets and the spiritual masters...

All the prophets confirmed each other and tried to explain mankind this single Universal System and Order, which we call as "religion". Finally, Mohammed (peace be upon him) said 'I have perfected the religion for you' by confirming all the scriptures before him and named this single religion of unity (the system) as ISLAM beacuse of its quality that all things have already SURRENDERED to this basic ultimate whole ONE, the originator of all.

In the sight of Oneness, there are not many religions, there is only one System of life. ISLAM is the name given to this only religion in the sight of ALLAH.

We do not need to be in conflict with eachother, but we need to UNDERSTAND that single Universal System and Order, --no matter from which religious(!) background we come-- in which each of us fullfils the reason for which we existed and get only the result of our deeds --as a basic principle of that System.

Religion is not some orders sent by a god from above to make fun of people. It is the System that operates in the universe which we are subjected to. We need to understand this system and order and be aligned with it in order to know our true selves and avoid from the losses of ignorance.

There are not many religions, because there are not many gods, nor is there a God out there; but there is only 'Allah' as the ultimate Originator of all that is.

When we understand that there is not a separate god for each of us, and there is the originator of everything as the ONE alone, and if we grasp all these, we can easily understand what it means the faith in the "Unity".

Otherwise, we are easily fooled into thinking that we believe in Unity while we waste our lives living in multiplicity, focusing our thoughts on separations and divisions with ego-based judgments.

All differences are merely surface observations, at our core all of us share the same universal essence. This understanding is the Unity that we have been communicated by all attainers of essence.

(Btw, Islam should not be confused with what muslims believe, that is with peoples' Muslimism. Islam is the origin, it is a universal teaching and cannot be owned by a particular person or group. Calling it as "my religion" or "your religion" is childish approaches. Everyone tries to understand Islam as his capacity allows and practices accordingly to attain the benefits for himself, and this becomes his Muslimism.)

 

[Bruce Wayne]

(Btw, Islam should not be confused with what muslims believe, that is with peoples' Muslimism. Islam is the origin, it is a universal teaching and cannot be owned by a particular person or group. Calling it as "my religion" or "your religion" is childish approaches. Everyone tries to understand Islam as his capacity allows and practices accordingly to attain the benefits for himself, and this becomes his Muslimism.)

The tragedy I incurr on this board is that I have not the time to respond properly and extensively.

So, to be short, concerning there is no My religion.


AL-KAFIROON (THE DISBELIEVERS, ATHEISTS)

Total Verses: 6
Revealed At: MAKKA
Maududi's introduction

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

109.001
YUSUFALI: Say: O ye that reject Faith!
PICKTHAL: Say: O disbelievers!
SHAKIR: Say: O unbelievers!

109.002
YUSUFALI: I worship not that which ye worship,
PICKTHAL: I worship not that which ye worship;
SHAKIR: I do not serve that which you serve,

109.003
YUSUFALI: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
PICKTHAL: Nor worship ye that which I worship.
SHAKIR: Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:

109.004
YUSUFALI: And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
PICKTHAL: And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
SHAKIR: Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,

109.005
YUSUFALI: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
PICKTHAL: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
SHAKIR: Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:

109.006
YUSUFALI: To you be your Way, and to me mine.
PICKTHAL: Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
SHAKIR: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.


In the last verse the word that is used is Deen. That word means religion. Look it up in adictionnary.

:m:

 

[Doomdayx]

The tragedy I incurr on this board is that I have not the time to respond properly and extensively.

So, to be short, concerning there is no My religion.


AL-KAFIROON (THE DISBELIEVERS, ATHEISTS)

Total Verses: 6
Revealed At: MAKKA
Maududi's introduction

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

109.001
YUSUFALI: Say : O ye that reject Faith!
PICKTHAL: Say: O disbelievers!
SHAKIR: Say: O unbelievers!

109.002
YUSUFALI: I worship not that which ye worship,
PICKTHAL: I worship not that which ye worship;
SHAKIR: I do not serve that which you serve,

109.003
YUSUFALI: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
PICKTHAL: Nor worship ye that which I worship.
SHAKIR: Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:

109.004
YUSUFALI: And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
PICKTHAL: And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
SHAKIR: Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,

109.005
YUSUFALI: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
PICKTHAL: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
SHAKIR: Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:

109.006
YUSUFALI: To you be your Way, and to me mine.
PICKTHAL: Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
SHAKIR: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.


In the last verse the word that is used is Deen. That word means religion. Look it up in adictionnary.

:m:

do you understand from ths lesson that you can own islam as *your* religion? how old are you boy?
if reading arabic were reading the quran, then native arabic speakers would have all been saints, the awliyah of allah!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

tis gonna be soo fun, mate

do you understand from ths lesson that you can own islam as *your* religion?

When I says it is my country, it does not mean that I own it.

if reading arabic were reading the quran, then native arabic speakers would have all been saints, the awliyah of allah!

Reading Arabic is not reading the Qur'an since more things are written down in Arabic than the Qur'an. Yet, one gets can better contemplate the Qur'an if he understands the language ALLAH Chose for the Qur'an.


TA-HA (TA-HA)

020.113
YUSUFALI: Thus have We sent this down - an arabic Qur'an - and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
PICKTHAL: Thus we have revealed it as a Lecture in Arabic, and have displayed therein certain threats, that peradventure they may keep from evil or that it may cause them to take heed.
SHAKIR: And thus have We sent it down an Arabic Quran, and have distinctly set forth therein of threats that they may guard (against evil) or that it may produce a reminder for them.

Now is the moment you should ask yourself whether your previous post shows that you are bright or less than that.

: m:

 

[Doomdayx]

tis gonna be soo fun, mate

When I says it is my country, it does not mean that I own it.

when you say it is my country, it actually means that you own it more than anyone else on earth, even a bit of it. you cannot say my religion if you understand that it is the universal religion that explains the system of allah (sunnatallah -if your arabic helps). however you can talk about your *muslimism*, it is your *muslimism*, it is what you understand of islam, the universal religion, of the origin that cannot be owned.

Reading Arabic is not reading the Qur'an since more things are written down in Arabic than the Qur'an. Yet, one gets can better contemplate the Qur'an if he understands the language ALLAH Chose for the Qur'an.


TA-HA (TA-HA)

020.113
YUSUFALI: Thus have We sent this down - an arabic Qur'an - and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
PICKTHAL: Thus we have revealed it as a Lecture in Arabic, and have displayed therein certain threats, that peradventure they may keep from evil or that it may cause them to take heed.
SHAKIR: And thus have We sent it down an Arabic Quran, and have distinctly set forth therein of threats that they may guard (against evil) or that it may produce a reminder for them.

Now is the moment you should ask yourself whether your previous post shows that you are bright or less than that.

how superficial judgment arrived without the least questioning!
boy, when it says we sent it down an arabic quran, i think you imagine that it was send down from the sky page by page in arabic written papers? what do you understand of the *we* here, many powers? and it is obvious that because of limitng the quran into arabic, you believe it is a limited book. it is not.
it is not also a god afar off as you imagine who choses one language for himself. the quran is written kept in the lawhe makhfuz (use your arabic). it is the ummul kitaab the mother of books, in the dimension of pure meanings, pure consciousness, in the origin of every event. arabic is the language that this book was communicated to people by rasulallah, after it was read from the lahwe makhfuuz without language but with the eye of pure consciousness. if rasulallah spoke another language, he would communicate it in that other language. reading the quran does not mean reading arabic, it may be in urdu, indian, turkish, persian, indonesian, english, french, etc. reading the quran means reading the sunnatallah from any moment of life itself. with this clear point of view arabic may be helpful, but may be, and has been for me to think about it but one should not try to involve arabic nationalism into the unversal religion of peace.
you see. i do not need to be bright, but the knowledge i have got by contemplating and understaning the quran and rasulallah is not at least superficial.

 

[surenderer]

Doom,
So are you then saying (just wondering) that one doesnt need to learn Arabic to read the Koran? I have seen the cess-pool that the Bible has become because of translations and translations of translations etc Remeber that muslims believe that the Bible was pure untill this..... That's part of the reason that the Koran has been protected for 1400 years. Why not make the effort to learn God and the language he revealed to his last Prophet? Its the easy way out to just have it translated for you and thus depend on someone else's interpetation of what was meant. As I am sure you know that some words (Allah being one) dont translate into other languages at least not with their full effect.

Peace to you

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Why not make the effort to learn God and the language he revealed to his last Prophet?

Why do that? that would mean thinking

I don't think Ahmed Baki & co. would encourage their followers to learn Arabic and thus Read the Qur' an as it is.

:m:

 

[Sufi]

Why do that? that would mean thinking

I don't think Ahmed Baki & co. would encourage their followers to learn Arabic and thus Read the Qur' an as it is.

:m:

Here is what Ahmed Hulusi says in his book "Religious Misunderstandings", which may (hopefully) stop Bruce Wayne from throwing further slanderings without knowledge to one of the best selling muslim authors.

Although the result to be suffered would be the same, an Arab's denial of the Rasul of Allah and the Koran will not the same as the denial by a non-Arab.

Being an Arab, someone can reject some information that came to him in his own language, because of his incapacity to understand it.

A non-Arab however, can in fact confirm or reject the understanding of its translator only, in a way, for he cannot get that point within reach without the translation of someone else.

Besides…

How reliable do you think that the information recounted by people within a dull-witted community can be, in which repeating the words of someone or other is considered enough to be a "person of wisdom (ilm)" and where people lack the ability to reflect (tafaqqur) = deep thinking as they grow up with a mentality that education is to give something word for word?

What do you think about the level of "knowledge" (ilm) of those people who are poor of ability to think systematically, who speak in a mode based on so-and-so person's fatwa (decision after his interpretation) whenever that decision favors them, and who try to hide their ignorance saying "Allah only knows it" whenever they cannot find an answer?

How can it be possible to address to tomorrow by means of the repetition of yesterday?

"The religion of Muslimism" in our day appears to be the acceptance of "using force on people to put the orders of God into practice" through the repetition of old clichés within the management of an authority.

 

[Sufi]

Doom,
So are you then saying (just wondering) that one doesnt need to learn Arabic to read the Koran? I have seen the cess-pool that the Bible has become because of translations and translations of translations etc Remeber that muslims believe that the Bible was pure untill this..... That's part of the reason that the Koran has been protected for 1400 years. Why not make the effort to learn God and the language he revealed to his last Prophet? Its the easy way out to just have it translated for you and thus depend on someone else's interpetation of what was meant. As I am sure you know that some words (Allah being one) dont translate into other languages at least not with their full effect.

Peace to you

Here is a passage for you, surrenderer, which I think you will enjoy reaing to think further (from the well known soruces).

Do we desire to understand the Koran al-Karim?

If we want to understand and evaluate the Koran al-Karim correctly, we must at first communicate the original words of the Koran as they are and use those original words in every related place.

When reading the interpretations (tafsir) or translations (ma’al) of the Koran, please pay attention to the following point first… If in a Koran translation, the word "GOD" is used instead of the word "Allah" in the original text and if the word "prophet" is employed in a translation while the words of "Rasul" and "Nabi" are cited in the original text, then please be assured that such a translation is not capable of helping you reach the realities (haqiqat) and the mysteries (sirr) that are being referred in the Koran!

It will never be possible for you to grasp the message given to us by Hazrat Mohammed Mustafa alayhessalam by means of such a translation… Not even its translator has understood anything from that Book: his translation cannot serve us!

In our various publications we have tried to explain that the meaning of the word "God" has nothing to do with the meaning that is denoted by the name "Allah"; and that the word "god" associates with a religion of "SkyGod"…

I would like to highlight another error now, which is the usage of the word "PROPHET" in Koran translations…

More available at http://www.ahmedbaki.com/english/books/system/system12.htm

 

[Sufi]

HOW TO READ THE KORAN

In our day, being able to read the words in Arabic letters (even without knowing their meaning) is assumed to be "reading the Koran"… Some people however, consider reading Koran translations (ma’al) as "reading the Koran"… These are only the preliminary stages of "reading" the Koran…

Yet, in my opinion, such forms of readings cannot be regarded as "READING" the Koran!

As we have referred to "READING" the System…

We can also refer to "READING" the Koran…

How is it possible to really READ the Koran?

READING the Koran is only possible through perceiving "the SPIRIT of the Koran"!

What does it mean to perceive the "the SPIRIT of the Koran"?

What is the purpose for which the Koran al-Karim has been revealed to mankind?

What kinds of benefits does the Koran al-Karim provide for the people to whom it has been revealed?

What kind of a life does the Koran al-Karim prepare for those to whom it has been revealed?

What kind of qualities does the Koran al-Karim reveal to people to whom it has been revealed?

Has the Koran al-Karim been revealed with an aim to limit, fix and lock people into a form of life, and seal the doors to advancement or, is it aimed at showing them the ways of advancing steadfastly, to provide them with rights that they are not aware of or that have been taken away, and to inform them of the ways to live with the faculties of being a "khaliph" man and woman alike, as a consequence?

http://www.ahmedbaki.com/english/books/system/

 

[Bruce Wayne]

when you say it is my country, it actually means that you own it more than anyone else on earth, even a bit of it. you cannot say my religion if you understand that it is the universal religion that explains the system of allah (sunnatallah -if your arabic helps).

warning:This is not making you look smart.

But it seems to be my calling to chew everything for the teethless like you. When I say it is my country, I don't have to own it. I myself belong to it. But I don't own it.

however you can talk about your *muslimism*, it is your *muslimism*, it is what you understand of islam, the universal religion, of the origin that cannot be owned.

The only thing I know about this muslimism of yours is that you like to put it as a label on others. It is not me who calls myself a Mohammedan (it is you). I humbly follow the Qur'an when Allah says that he has chosen for as Islam as a religion.

how superficial judgment arrived without the least questioning!

boy, when it says we sent it down an arabic quran, i think you imagine that it was send down from the sky page by page in arabic written papers? what do you understand of the *we* here, many powers?

A superb analogy, albeit not the way you think it is. This illustrates the importance of Arabic. For the "we" in Arabic doesn't denote multiple persons. It is a way of speech denoting majesty. This is a fine example showing that importance of Arabic while understanding the Qur'an. Allah chose to reveal it in Arabic. Or do you want to say that it was the prophet that wrote it of his mind.


MARYAM (MARY)

019.097
YUSUFALI: So have We made the (Qur'an) easy in thine own tongue, that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to the righteous, and warnings to people given to contention.

PICKTHAL: And We make (this Scripture) easy in thy tongue, (O Muhammad) only that thou mayst bear good tidings therewith unto those who ward off (evil), and warn therewith the froward folk.

SHAKIR: So We have only made it easy in your tongue that you may give good news thereby to those who guard (against evil) and warn thereby a vehemently contentious people.


ANd

AD-DUKHAN (SMOKE)

044.058

YUSUFALI: Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed.

PICKTHAL: And We have made (this Scripture) easy in thy language only that they may heed.

SHAKIR: So have We made it easy in your tongue that they may be mindful.

and it is obvious that because of limitng the quran into arabic, you believe it is a limited book. it is not.

Hey it wasn't me. It was Allah-subhaanahu wa ta3aala.

it is not also a god afar off as you imagine who choses one language for himself. the quran is written kept in the lawhe makhfuz (use your arabic). it is the ummul kitaab the mother of books,

Allah is above language. Arabic was Chossen for us because it is a vast language (wa LLahu a3lam).

in the dimension of pure meanings, pure consciousness, in the origin of every event.

Where did this information come from? the Qur'an?

arabic is the language that this book was communicated to people by rasulallah, after it was read from the lahwe makhfuuz without language but with the eye of pure consciousness. if rasulallah spoke another language, he would communicate it in that other language. reading the quran does not mean reading arabic, it may be in urdu, indian, turkish, persian, indonesian, english, french, etc. reading the quran means reading the sunnatallah from any moment of life itself.

No. That would mean the words were those of the prophet -peace be upon him. They are not.

Allah says:


TA-HA (TA-HA)

020.113
YUSUFALI: Thus have We sent this down - an arabic Qur'an - and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).

PICKTHAL: Thus we have revealed it as a Lecture in Arabic, and have displayed therein certain threats, that peradventure they may keep from evil or that it may cause them to take heed.

SHAKIR: And thus have We sent it down an Arabic Quran, and have distinctly set forth therein of threats that they may guard (against evil) or that it may produce a reminder for them.

with this clear point of view arabic may be helpful

Well Dohh! Glad your mind could join us.

but may be, and has been for me to think about it but one should not try to involve arabic nationalism into the unversal religion of peace.

lol. There goes your mind again. While others have arguments of why Arabic "nationalism" is well compatible with Islam, I happen to view Arab NAtionalism as something beneath Islam, I might be mistaken though.

you see. i do not need to be bright, but the knowledge i have got by contemplating and understaning the quran and rasulallah is not at least superficial.

I agree that you are not so bright.

:m:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Here is what Ahmed Hulusi says in his book "Religious Misunderstandings", which may (hopefully) stop Bruce Wayne from throwing further slanderings without knowledge to one of the best selling muslim authors.

Can you please not edit your last post. It is soo cute yet soo disturbing :bugeye:.
Oh so he sells well. I guess that would mean that Micheal Moore is an oracle.

Sufi, how much do mista Hulusi's books cost a piece?

:m:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Although the result to be suffered would be the same, an Arab's denial of the Rasul of Allah and the Koran will not the same as the denial by a non-Arab.

Being an Arab, someone can reject some information that came to him in his own language, because of his incapacity to understand it.

A non-Arab however, can in fact confirm or reject the understanding of its translator only, in a way, for he cannot get that point within reach without the translation of someone else.

Besides…

How reliable do you think that the information recounted by people within a dull-witted community can be, in which repeating the words of someone or other is considered enough to be a "person of wisdom (ilm)" and where people lack the ability to reflect (tafaqqur) = deep thinking as they grow up with a mentality that education is to give something word for word?

I would like to thank Ahmed for his support and for making my point. You guys are soo hillarious. I would appreciate if one of you could relay that to him, thx. (maybe he can send better acolytes).

Keep up the good work.

:m:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Here is a passage for you, surrenderer, which I think you will enjoy reaing to think further (from the well known soruces).

Do we desire to understand the Koran al-Karim?

If we want to understand and evaluate the Koran al-Karim correctly, we must at first communicate the original words of the Koran as they are and use those original words in every related place.

When reading the interpretations (tafsir) or translations (ma’al) of the Koran, please pay attention to the following point first… If in a Koran translation, the word "GOD" is used instead of the word "Allah" in the original text and if the word "prophet" is employed in a translation while the words of "Rasul" and "Nabi" are cited in the original text, then please be assured that such a translation is not capable of helping you reach the realities (haqiqat) and the mysteries (sirr) that are being referred in the Koran!

It will never be possible for you to grasp the message given to us by Hazrat Mohammed Mustafa alayhessalam by means of such a translation… Not even its translator has understood anything from that Book: his translation cannot serve us!

In our various publications we have tried to explain that the meaning of the word "God" has nothing to do with the meaning that is denoted by the name "Allah"; and that the word "god" associates with a religion of "SkyGod"…

I would like to highlight another error now, which is the usage of the word "PROPHET" in Koran translations…

More available at http://www.ahmedbaki.com/english/books/system/system12.htm

Conclusions: Translations are inaccurate. The Qur'an is in Arabic.

Again thnx for agreeing.

:m:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

HOW TO READ THE KORAN

In our day, being able to read the words in Arabic letters (even without knowing their meaning) is assumed to be "reading the Koran"… Some people however, consider reading Koran translations (ma’al) as "reading the Koran"… These are only the preliminary stages of "reading" the Koran…

Yet, in my opinion, such forms of readings cannot be regarded as "READING" the Koran!

As we have referred to "READING" the System…

We can also refer to "READING" the Koran…

How is it possible to really READ the Koran?

READING the Koran is only possible through perceiving "the SPIRIT of the Koran"!

What does it mean to perceive the "the SPIRIT of the Koran"?

What is the purpose for which the Koran al-Karim has been revealed to mankind?

What kinds of benefits does the Koran al-Karim provide for the people to whom it has been revealed?

What kind of a life does the Koran al-Karim prepare for those to whom it has been revealed?

What kind of qualities does the Koran al-Karim reveal to people to whom it has been revealed?

Has the Koran al-Karim been revealed with an aim to limit, fix and lock people into a form of life, and seal the doors to advancement or, is it aimed at showing them the ways of advancing steadfastly, to provide them with rights that they are not aware of or that have been taken away, and to inform them of the ways to live with the faculties of being a "khaliph" man and woman alike, as a consequence?

http://www.ahmedbaki.com/english/books/system/

Oh, I get it. some sarcasm coming up.

So you stare at the Qur'an.

And then you stare at the Qur'an.

And then you keep repeating the process until... suddently... it makes sense.

Noot the way it works.

You read the words, of Allah, I might add...

Then you understand what the words mean in Arabic.

And then, and only then do you look for the meaning.

Whithout the first two steps you cannot but rely on someone else to tell you what he thinks the words mean.

:m:

 

[Sufi]

Sufi, how much do mista Hulusi's books cost a piece?

Ahmed Hulusi is the only Islamic author in the world today who since 1963 distributes all his works (more than 30 books, tens of video and audio tapes) for free without compyright and without any material gaining. All of them are availbel on the internet for free for READERS.

This is written in all his books:

As with all our publications, this book has no copyrights reserved. Provided that its original form is not changed in any way and its authors are notified in advance, it can be printed, reproduced, published, translated, and distributed free of charge.
NO REWARD IS DEMANDED IN RETURN FOR THE KNOWLEDGE (ilm) OF ALLAH.

I do no think this will even embarress someone who has lost his sense of respect to others and who keeps throwing slanderings on others over and over again in almost every post even after he is proved wrong.

 

[Sufi]

Conclusions: Translations are inaccurate. The Qur'an is in Arabic.

You misunderstood again. Translations are not inaccurate. They arehelpful but may be insufficient. The Qurain is not in Arabic, it is writen in the lawhe makhfuz, in the dimension of universal consciousness, without being restricted to any language. It was READ by all nabis and rasuls at different levels (so it took different names) and they were communicated to people in their language so that people can understand them.

The unique Book that I am talking about, the Koran, will remain safe until eternity even though the Arabic papers are lost. Because it is written within the origin of the Allah's system and order and will remain safe as far as this universal system and order exist.

This deep spiritual understanding of reality has always been dificult for mullahs to think and comprehend, who adhere to literal words of the book.

 

[surenderer]

Sufi would you agree that certain words dont translate fully into other languages? Even as a Sufi yourself I am curious how you can meditate or contemplate on something which isnt in its original text

Translations are not inaccurate. They arehelpful but may be insufficient

That is suffient enough for you?

The Qurain is not in Arabic, it is writen in the lawhe makhfuz, in the dimension of universal consciousness, without being restricted to any language.

That sounds good on paper and all but being someone who knows Arabic I know I can go to any bookstore and pick up an English Koran and read it and know that it doesnt say the same thing as an Arabic one.......let me quote you to prove my point:

They arehelpful but may be insufficient

The unique Book that I am talking about, the Koran, will remain safe until eternity even though the Arabic papers are lost.

Part of the reason the Koran will remain safe is because it is the most memorized book in the world(in Arabic )



One last note about trusting translations.......lets take the word Jihad...if we look it up on dictionary.com the 1st defination they give is:

1.A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.


But as a Muslim you should know that the word Jihad stems from the Arabic root word J-H-D, which means "strive." Other words derived from this root include "effort," "labor," and "fatigue." Essentially Jihad is an effort to practice religion in the face of oppression and persecution. Now why wouldnt they say that 1st?


1.5 Billion Muslims also say their prayers daily in Arabic....do you think that too is unnecessary? how about facing Mecca?