The sects were created because of differing opinions and interpretations of His Word......it is likely that none of them are completely correct in everything, but they all follow the basic, God is God and Jesus died for our sins therefore they are not all completely false!
a q. for the christians
- Thread starter mohamed
- Start date
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Unless, of course, it's a fairy-tale, conflated during and after the end of the 2nd Temple Period, and carefully harmonized, redacted and interpolated over a period of 20 centuries.
Re: Re: to the D of J
Fine, fine, fine. You yourself do not think of yourself as Xtian despite the fact you are. Kinda like the guy who got disowned by his family because he was gay. They say he's not a part of family but he is.
Hate hath blinded you. As for me, contempt for stupidity hath blinded me.
Fine, fine, fine. You yourself do not think of yourself as Xtian despite the fact you are. Kinda like the guy who got disowned by his family because he was gay. They say he's not a part of family but he is.
Hate hath blinded you. As for me, contempt for stupidity hath blinded me.
so what if they had different interpretations.. that gives you the right to start a new church? if i start twistin words around from the bible and garner a whole buncha ppl to believe in it, would that be acceptable as another so called sect? its pure rubbish... if ppl differed, they'd sort it out.. not go and start a new church... is there anywhere in the bible that allows for that? and believin in the basics doesn't mean that its ok to manipulate everything else... xtianity needs a lotta mopping...
yet ppl have gone ahead and done what they thought was right despite the warnings.. and then they have the balls to tell everyone who doesn't believe in christ that they'll go to hell... or won't be saved... hypocritical aint it? just imagine this..
i believe in christ.. but i think this part of the bible translates differently to me... so im gonna go do what i want and you do what you want.. but we believe in christ so we'll be saved..
if you don't fail to see the stupidity in this, then i donno what to say.. claiming your version is better and startin a church is an absolute power trip...
According to the gospel, we are lost or saved by our inheritance. We inherited our sin from Adam, but we inherit freedom from Christ. Christ has adopted people who weren't part of God's original people by dying in their place. Therefore Christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, everybody can be saved...
BUT: Nobody can save themselves. There's the rub.
1 Col. 1
13For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
No man, woman, religion or sect is better than the other, just like no tree is better than any other tree - but
Mark 4
19...the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop--thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown."
Luke 6:44
Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.
Galatians 5:22
... the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness.
Whoever bears such fruit, has part of Jesus. Whoever does not bear fruit, will be cut down. It isn't a church or a group or a government that is evil - it is people.
BUT: Nobody can save themselves. There's the rub.
1 Col. 1
13For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
No man, woman, religion or sect is better than the other, just like no tree is better than any other tree - but
Mark 4
19...the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop--thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown."
Luke 6:44
Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.
Galatians 5:22
... the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness.
Whoever bears such fruit, has part of Jesus. Whoever does not bear fruit, will be cut down. It isn't a church or a group or a government that is evil - it is people.
but that requires you to believe in christ and that he died for everyone... couplea things come to my mind when i hear this.
- im obligated to christ even tho' i am born centuries after he died
- its a black n white situation.. either believe or disbelieve..
- that is the only path to paradise
- i can sin as much as i want cuz in the end i'll be saved cuz i believed in christ
and you strive for paradise even tho' u have no clue what it is.. or even what is hell... polarized situation where you are compelled to choose one over the other.. no middle ground...
i find it quite foolish... not trynna offend anyone here... i could've led a life as perfectly as possible and yet id go to hell cuz i didnt believe that christ was a messenger of god... quite a non discriminatory god i have to say. :bugeye:
if i've made any errors plz enlighten me...
you're right this means that you either believe or disbelieve, and there is only one path to paradise.......however you are not correct in your last point...........it is not enough to believe in God and Jesus (satan 'believes' in them too), you must repent (turn away from) your sins in order to be saved...you hafta accept the gift of salvation from Christ, not just believe in it.
"Galatians 5:22
... the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness. "
you missed two, there are nine; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
Why are so many people converting to Islam??
Karla's conversion to Islam:
"How could you, an educated American woman convert to Islam - a religion that oppresses women?" - Blonde-haired blue-eyed, former Christian, Karla, explains how her theological dissatisfaction with the doctrine of Jesus as God and her discovery of the rights given to women in Islam led her to become a Muslim.
http://www.islamfortoday.com/karla.htm
Karla's conversion to Islam:
"How could you, an educated American woman convert to Islam - a religion that oppresses women?" - Blonde-haired blue-eyed, former Christian, Karla, explains how her theological dissatisfaction with the doctrine of Jesus as God and her discovery of the rights given to women in Islam led her to become a Muslim.
http://www.islamfortoday.com/karla.htm
Thanks NL 
Sycoindian: It might seem a big leap from your present perspective. But as with anything else, belief happens in steps. First, you have to accept there is a God - otherwise whatever you do will be hypocritical and insincere. Then you realize that God is God over infinity as well as over time, therefore our whole existence is his from beginning to end. His plan and creation is running in the one point to another as He intends it to. It only started once and will only end once. Christ only died for everybody once, because if once wasn't sufficient, then why would two or three or even once a lifetime be?
It is through God's grace that we can be saved by our fellowship with Christ. Not everybody is smart enough to figure out how to live live perfectly. Or has the willpower to actually keep living that way. Many monks and priests have tried and failed. You simply can't do it by your own strength or wisdom.
1Cor.1:26
Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things -- and the things that are not -- to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."
Belief is not so black and white. If you simplify it, yes maybe - but that is such a dangerous thing and it's called fundamentalism. Steps, remember. It's an education, it's a lifestyle. You might be sure about one thing and doubt another - but one thing remains certain - without God's justice we won't know what is right and wrong, and without Christ we can't know.
What middle ground do you propose? Maybe, if it's a better solution itmight be something I've missed. Knowledge makes discrimination and ignorance impossible. For people who don't know about God or Christ, there might be middle ground, but you know that you are guilty under God's laws, and that you are saved by Christ's death and your association with his death. This is only possible because Christ is the fullness of God. A living breathing metaphor for God.
But to know who Christ was, you have to read the Bible:
Col.1
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[6] your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation
Sycoindian: It might seem a big leap from your present perspective. But as with anything else, belief happens in steps. First, you have to accept there is a God - otherwise whatever you do will be hypocritical and insincere. Then you realize that God is God over infinity as well as over time, therefore our whole existence is his from beginning to end. His plan and creation is running in the one point to another as He intends it to. It only started once and will only end once. Christ only died for everybody once, because if once wasn't sufficient, then why would two or three or even once a lifetime be?
It is through God's grace that we can be saved by our fellowship with Christ. Not everybody is smart enough to figure out how to live live perfectly. Or has the willpower to actually keep living that way. Many monks and priests have tried and failed. You simply can't do it by your own strength or wisdom.
1Cor.1:26
Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things -- and the things that are not -- to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."
Belief is not so black and white. If you simplify it, yes maybe - but that is such a dangerous thing and it's called fundamentalism. Steps, remember. It's an education, it's a lifestyle. You might be sure about one thing and doubt another - but one thing remains certain - without God's justice we won't know what is right and wrong, and without Christ we can't know.
What middle ground do you propose? Maybe, if it's a better solution itmight be something I've missed. Knowledge makes discrimination and ignorance impossible. For people who don't know about God or Christ, there might be middle ground, but you know that you are guilty under God's laws, and that you are saved by Christ's death and your association with his death. This is only possible because Christ is the fullness of God. A living breathing metaphor for God.
But to know who Christ was, you have to read the Bible:
Col.1
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[6] your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation
Well said, I agree with you sycoindian, It IS all about power.
Christianity is contradictive, hypocritical and very influential. Christianity and Islam are all about power, they strive to capture the minds of people and to control them, and to wipe out the unbelievers of their "God", either by conversion or physically.
Religion is the scourge of civilisation today.
maybe there should be a health warning on the outside of churches and mosques similar to sigarette packages:
Warning: religion can seriously harm your mental health and is a scourge of modern civilisation.
what if i sin and then repent and sin again and repent again? i think u'll have to elaborate more on the concept of repenting..
difference btw 'accepting' and 'believing'? plz elaborate...
okk... let us say that a tribe somewhere in the amazon had their own customs and practises and lived a very good life... they followed a lifestyle outlined in xtianity without knowin about it.. now would they not get into paradise even tho' they were isolated and ignorant about xtianity?
im havin a hard time acceptin the fact that you have to BELIEVE in christ to get into paradise (if it actually exists)... i look at it as 'bait'....
Jenyar.. i see what you are saying... as you so succintly put it, you have to believe in God first.. and then everything else follows... for that you'd have to prove God exists...
about christ... i still dont understand why i have to believe in him cuz he supposedly died for my sins... why the 'obligation'??
about christ... i still dont understand why i have to believe in him cuz he supposedly died for my sins... why the 'obligation'??
I second that
*runs to kinkos to make a few signs and put em up at the mosque entrance at midnight*
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you must repent (turn away from) your sins in order to be saved
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what if i sin and then repent and sin again and repent again? i think u'll have to elaborate more on the concept of repenting..
* repenting means that you acknowledge that you have sinned, you ask for forgivness and then you strive to avoid that sin again (we often fail at this) and ask God (Holy Spirit) to help with that cause we cant do it on our own, we will never be totally free of sin, but we can sin a lot less
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you hafta accept the gift of salvation from Christ, not just believe in it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
difference btw 'accepting' and 'believing'? plz elaborate...
* believing is saying 'yes I think that Jesus died for my sins'
accepting is more saying 'God I know i'm a sinner and Jesus died for my sins, please forgive me in His name and come live in my heart' (*basically the 'sinners prayer')..........sorry, thats not explained very well
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there is only one path to paradise
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
okk... let us say that a tribe somewhere in the amazon had their own customs and practises and lived a very good life... they followed a lifestyle outlined in xtianity without knowin about it.. now would they not get into paradise even tho' they were isolated and ignorant about xtianity?
*the bible says that God has put a sense that there is a God into every creation so that no one has an excuse for saying they had no idea........also God manifests himself in places where there are no 'missionaries', the people may not know his name per sey, but they do know Him..........also thats why christians are called to go and tell everyone about the good news (the great commission)
im havin a hard time acceptin the fact that you have to BELIEVE in christ to get into paradise (if it actually exists)... i look at it as 'bait'....
* you hafta ACCEPT Christ to get in
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you must repent (turn away from) your sins in order to be saved
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what if i sin and then repent and sin again and repent again? i think u'll have to elaborate more on the concept of repenting..
* repenting means that you acknowledge that you have sinned, you ask for forgivness and then you strive to avoid that sin again (we often fail at this) and ask God (Holy Spirit) to help with that cause we cant do it on our own, we will never be totally free of sin, but we can sin a lot less
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you hafta accept the gift of salvation from Christ, not just believe in it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
difference btw 'accepting' and 'believing'? plz elaborate...
* believing is saying 'yes I think that Jesus died for my sins'
accepting is more saying 'God I know i'm a sinner and Jesus died for my sins, please forgive me in His name and come live in my heart' (*basically the 'sinners prayer')..........sorry, thats not explained very well
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there is only one path to paradise
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
okk... let us say that a tribe somewhere in the amazon had their own customs and practises and lived a very good life... they followed a lifestyle outlined in xtianity without knowin about it.. now would they not get into paradise even tho' they were isolated and ignorant about xtianity?
*the bible says that God has put a sense that there is a God into every creation so that no one has an excuse for saying they had no idea........also God manifests himself in places where there are no 'missionaries', the people may not know his name per sey, but they do know Him..........also thats why christians are called to go and tell everyone about the good news (the great commission)
im havin a hard time acceptin the fact that you have to BELIEVE in christ to get into paradise (if it actually exists)... i look at it as 'bait'....
* you hafta ACCEPT Christ to get in