A new approach to mental illness

emphatically no

Only their abilities that may lead to delusion

The premise is that it is their uncontrolled abilities that lead to a state of delusion.

By learning how to control those abilities the patient will become free of delusion.

Can I make it any clearer than that?
 
" As soon as I have the full name of the doctor that manipulated that young woman and the hospital where he is employed , I will post it ."


I have the name of this rapist and Quack , QQ . I have his card and the hospital he works at . I also have the name of a person that is knowledgeable about this medical perversion but has continued to remain silent .



http://www.upenn.edu/president/rodin/
 
Dr. Judith Rodin reportedly has been and may still be involved with covertly manipulating individuals in their own homes . Information obtained , details her involvement with members of the University of Pennsylvania Psychology Dept. and colluding with law enforcement . This endeavor by her and others can accurately be described as a Criminal enterprise .

This is serious stuff QQ . If it happened to you or your child you would want answers . Is the truth ...and a childs precious life ...to be cast aside because of the political aspirations of Rodin and others like her ?
 
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I have not read the entire post, but I would like to comment.

I, at one time, was considered Bi-polar (manic/depressive). I understand what is being said. Part of the problem is the stigma that goes along with mental illness. But also part of the problem is therapist read about what the patient is going through but really don't have a clue, experientially. I was a bit different. When I was not getting the "help" I thought I needed from the professionals, I was able to consciously think my way through it. I realize you may say someone that is delusional would not be able to do this, but my opinion differs. What I discovered through my own self-analysis, was a spiritual side of life. Through concentrating on an interest (ie. spirituality), I was able to bring myself to a more "normal" level. Once I was in a more "normal" state I was able to take better control of my life. For instance, my condition is very seasonal affective, so I moved south (not far enough but better).


But I have digressed....YES, people who have mental illnesses should be treated with the same respect and understanding as a "NORMAL". Because in reality they think they are normal and everyone else is "CRAZY".
 
Every one experiences emotional fluctuations , Awake . Some people deal with stress on a daily basis that would knock most on the floor . What is normal for one person , may not be for another .

The mental health industry is designed to self perpetuate , to the detriment of the very people it professes to help . Couple this with drug pushing and scientific fabrication , the result is often a life long , manufactured industry dependant .

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I agree and am profoundly grateful that I broke out of it. They had me drugged and going to "counselling" from once a week to several times a week. I would go in and say what I had to say and that would be that. They was no support, no instruction, no help.
 
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Do you believe that it is the conscious intent of some, most or all the mental health professions to deliver services that perpetuate the illness rather than try to elliviate it, for self gain?
 
What I feel is that many in the mental health professions are very caring people who want to truely help. The problem I see is that they are in a "system" that perpetuates the illnesses for gain. For that matter, it is like the for most of the health professions.
 
I tend to agree with you and this is why I am attempting to suggest an alternative approach to the issue.
What I see is a group of caring people who have no real idea of how to treat mental illness in a way that offers solutions for the client.

I feel that it is possible to cure mental health problems and not just "tranquelise" it.
 
Agreed! Another case in point...My son has had some problems in the past. "They", including his mother (who at the time was going to school to be a therapist), said that he had a myriad of different disorders. ADHD, ODD, and OCD, I think were the alphabet soup. I told them he needed discipline and structure. I was ignored. He went to several cousellors, psychiatrists, and psychologist. They put him on medication and repeated visits. He had some side-effects (severe nightmares bordering on delusions (half-awake, half-asleep)). It has been a few years now. I have had custody of him for most of this last year. He is no longer and meds. He doesn't need counselling. He is a well adjusted 10 year old which I am complimented on because of his good manners and behavior.

I am not saying everyone who is on medication needs to stop or even quit going to counselling. But I do think our society, especially are children are severly over medicated. I think that has alot to do with the current lifestyle of American society. We need to take more time and better care of our children.
 
Years ago they discovered the theraputic benefits of Lithium for the control of mood swings. The scientist have since gone down the medication path as a solution and ceased to look for a better way in the mean time.

The question that needs to be asked is are we medicating for our benefit or that of the patient. Some times we fail to see that is just our convenience that we treat the patient the way we do.


Why has the medical profession ceased to look for alternatives to medication.

Abnak will argue and quite rightly that money and convenience is a prime concern.

My approach is one of learning and discipline and I would allow medication only to help stabilise a traumatised mind and no more. I certainly wouldn't be treating on the basis of my convenience and benefit.

I am glad that for you a solution to your childs plight has occured and yes it seems to prove your point quite adequately.

It is possible that a child's lack of a sense of security in his home and love may drive his poor behaviour and of course there is no medication in the world that can give him or any one security or discipline or love.
Maybe your ex-wife has something to learn from all this?
 
In her last semester of college she dropped out. For her this was bad, but for those who would have been in her care, I think it is a good thing.

And yes, my son is thriving due to love, security and loving discipline.
 
"By learning how to control those abilities the patient will become free of delusion."

Again , how actually would you nurture their delusional abilities ?

Another concern would be that you incorporate normal human frailties with your definition for some one that is delusional . " misconception(s) , misunderstood truth , subjective reality , an experience not shared with others , denial , mistaken rejection etc." This list to me ,seems absurd , for you try to include things that all of us have experienced .

Such is the methodology of todays mental health industry . This is not just an imaginary construct , it is a deliberate attempt to distort and falsify - for profit .

In a word - Racketeering
 
my pc blew up yesterday so I'll have to write to this forum later when it's fixed.( using a friends pc at present)
 
I have just read this entire thread. I think I understand where Quantum is coming from. I too, have a schizophrenic family member who has been hospitalized and jailed several times. I too have done quite a bit of reading about it.

I don't think there is a conspiracy or that the mental health industry is self-perpetuating. I think that the system is full of individuals who bring their own experiences and biases with them (a girl being possessed, i.e.), and work with what tools and training they are given. Drug companies don't help matters. But it isn't purposeful - it is just a system with pathological problems that need fixed. People who think they are helping are, in fact, causing irreparable damage. They don't mean to - it is what happens when we don't understand what we're doing.

Kirsty says she tells people to stop their voices or delusions. I was taught this was not a good thing to do - never confront a defense mechanism head-on, or you are asking for trouble. I was taught that a delusion or hallucination is a result of negative feelings. i.e., if a person feels unworthy, they have delusions of grandeur, such as being God; if a person feels they have no control over their life, they have paranoias that they are being controlled. The way to fix the problem is to not focus on the delusions or hallucinations, but the feelings. Help the person feel worthy, and they forget about being God. Help the person feel in control of their life, and they forget about massive conspiracies setting them up for murder.
I can say I have tried this with my family member, and it is very effective. For 10 years, our family focused on the delusions, and all along, helping was so simple if we had only known how.

I want to say, that other than that, I appreciate Kirsty's experience with schizophrenia, greatly, and her understanding of people in the depths of mental crisis.

To address Quantum's suggestion about acknowledging someone's ability - I like that idea. The reason I like it is because who is to say what it is that is causing a person to hallucinate? Or who is to say that they are hallucinating, just because we don't perceive what they do? Perhaps there IS someone sending electronic signals to their brain! After Viet Nam, I believe the military is capable of anything. Who am I to say? All I can say is what I was taught when addressing someone else's "delusion" or "hallucination," - "I am not able to hear the voices you hear." To take it a step further with Quantum's idea, "I believe you are able to hear the voices say [whatever it is they are saying]."

To address Abnak's question, this is NOT saying, "I believe that what the voices are saying is true," and it is NOT saying, "I believe the voices are really there." You are simply acknowledging that the person hears them, and nothing else.

In all the reading I've done, I have not concluded that even mental health professionals know what is going on for sure. They are still investigating why some medications work the way they do. In the process, they are finding a lot out about how the brain works. Who is to say that someday they won't find that schizophrenics have abilities, and possibly even gifts the rest of us don't, that turn out to be beneficial to society if they are used properly instead of creating havoc? We simply don't know.
 
Thanks for the input Voylady . You state : " I think I understand where Quantum is coming from. " then state : " I don't think ... the mental health industry is self-perpetuating.:
Yet it was QQ that wrote , " I accept that it is possible that the industry of mental health is self justifying "

Would you also agree with QQ's list for delusional attributes ? ...such as - " misconception(s) , misunderstood truth , subjective reality , an experience not shared (by) others , denial , mistaken rejection etc."

Almost every church service I have attended , some guy was saying , God had talked to them or God answered their prayers , etc...Do you think this is all said as some metaphorical statement ? From my experience , these type of things do not occur, nor have any supernatural events ever occured . These behaviors and statements are encouraged by authority figures . In other words , people are taught to personalize and expound on " programing " they have received . Being rewarded with a sense of belonging to a group might compel alot of people , except the stubborn individualists , to be led along like sheep .
Are these sheep mentally ill or are they just adapting to and continuing an encouraged acquiescent attitude ?

Wish QQ would tell us all how he would - Breed delusional abilities , in order to stop delusions .
 
In response to Abnak, understanding where Quantum is coming from is in relation to affirming the ability of schizophrenics to perceive things we don't. It is not in relation to agreeing with his views on the mental health system. Abnak is overgeneralizing my comments, and perhaps misunderstood them. I will be more specific.

Consequently, 3 people, not just Quantum, posted negative opinions toward the mental health system that border on conspiracy theory - including Abnak. My opinion is that it is something else than what those people state that causes negative things to occur in the mental health system. The negative outcomes are not so intelligently designed, at least not on a large scale. People are often not smart enough to be capable of the things we accuse them of.

Psychologists and psychiatrists label the experience of a schizophrenic to create a treatment - because schizophrenia is a problem when it comes to functioning in society in a positive way. Their labeling is flawed, and from what I've read, is mostly based on trial and error of what has worked for the century since Freud started the whole analyzation process. Do you have a better alternative? Shall we send the people in crisis to your house? As much as I hate the way the system works, I'll try to work with it.

Furthermore, I am not "listing" delusional attributes to affirm. Just because I don't experience what another does, doesn't mean it does not exist. There are plenty of schizophrenics who are not Christian; whose delusions have little to do with the church. And who am I to say what is Truth for them? It is clear that they need to exist at least on some level equal with the rest of society to function in it, irregardless of their perceptions. Affirming that they experience something I don't - no matter what it is - and I don't have to know what it is - might help them to feel a little less "crazy," and a little more like trying to function on a similar plane.

I know plenty of atheists, and I will say to Abnak what I have said to them: I will respect your atheism if you respect my Christianity. Don't assume something does not exist just because YOU don't believe in it. It exists for the person who does.
 
Thanks for your reply Lady , for the most part it is reasonable , however I disagree with alot of it . Your assumption that I am an Atheist is incorrect .

The doctor who encouraged this young girl to believe that her body had evil spirits knew excactly what he was doing ...producing fear to facilitate control , his control . I call it rape . Just use your imagination what's going to happen to him , when I pay him a "visit" .
 
Abnak, I did not assume you were an atheist. I said to you what I say to atheists I have had discussions with - that doesn't mean I think you are one.

You have misinterpreted several things that I have written, and jumped to some conclusions which are false. Therefore, I am not sure I believe the conclusions about this doctor and law enforcement that you speak of. Calling something "rape" that is something else, indicates you are also extremely angry.

I have no idea what is going to happen to the doctor, and don't know you well enough to even use my imagination about it. Acting out of anger and assumptions isn't wise though - PARTICULARLY with people who abuse their power. You might end up getting into a lot of trouble yourself. It might be better to do a little more research, and get some others to help evaluate the situation and approach, and give yourself time to calm. You might have a very valid reason to be angry. I don't question that. If you want to have an effect that won't hurt this girl further, though, you might want to wait until you aren't angry, and think about a strategy of change that would work - and get input and support from others before approaching the situation.

What is your end in this matter? Is it revenge? Is it helping this girl? Is it fixing a situation that is unhealthy?
 
"I did not assume you were an atheist."

You wrote a sentence directed at me , even capitalized the word "YOU" , yet it was intended for some one else ?

OK .

Frankly , I don't care if people believe in pink and purple , flying bunny rabbits . A scientist in a position of authority , however , who incorporates nonsense , especially to the detriment of a patient , should be confronted .
 
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