A God We Know Nothing About

[wynn]

Not really. If all of a sudden one day a disembodied voice was heard worldwide that called each of us by name and told us that in about 2 hours to look up and watch home videos of God creating everything using the sky as a screen then that would be a start. Once the show was over God could come out for an encore and part each major body of water in the world. The list of stunts are endless but each of us would take a different amount of them to be convinced.

It seems that God took this approach in the early days according to text. I mean, He was right in A & E's faces if their story is true. He did a lot of shit back then.

How do you know that nowadays, God isn't "pulling such stunts as before", and it'sjust that nowadays, people need more than ever before to be convinced?

IOW, you are acknowledging that a person's receptivity plays a part in how they see things and whether they believe in God. So it would pay off to investigate this further, namely, a person's receptivity.

You can't tell me that our ancestors believed in God because they had to go find Him or they wanted their free will overrode. There's just no friggin' way. They believed in God solely because of God's magic and power displays, nothing more.

I don't know about that.

It does seem though that there was a time in the past when planet Earth was a lot less polluted than it is today, and this suggests that people back then had quite a different relationship with it than they have had for the last 200 years or so. That in the early days, before industrialization, people had more respect for nature - whether that respect was forced on them by the hardship of life or whether it was deliberate is hard to say with certainty, but the fact is that they didn't pollute Earth the way we do nowadays. I presume that because they had such respect, and the environment was not as polluted, they might have been more receptive to God. They probably had a lot more free time than we do today as well.


So, bottomline, I think the question to ask ourselves is this:
Is it possible that nowadays, we tend to live a lifestyle that is not particularly conducive to knowing things as they really are?
Is it possible that the values we tend to hold nowadays are not conducive for us to be truly happy?
I think it is very possible.

God found them, not the other way around. If we now have to find God(no more personal appearances) then that should mean somebody knew or knows something about God, so when did this revelation occur? God had to have told somebody. Why He wouldn't have announced it globally is really surprising seeing that was His M.O. Theologians wouldn't make that up, would they?

Again, it depends on what you mean by "God" and "making an appearance".
God is certainly famous, even staunch atheists talk about Him! Being the topic of communication is a form of making an appearance. Granted, just saying "God" isn't much, so it's no wonder people are dissatisfied with such an appearance.

This really makes belief in God tough because you have to believe fellow human beings first.

We usually believe human beings first anyway.

But the basic principle is this: If something is true, then it is true even if we heard it from a person. For example, it is possible to learn to ride a bike and then ride a bike - even though it was a person who instructed us how to ride a bike.

 

[swarm]

Why is god only represented by excuses?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

the key ingredient is for a valid outlook (at least as far as sanity is concerned) is that a person be able to extrapolate on it intelligibly. For instance if there's nothing forthcoming from a murderer aside from "I believe it is ok" they can expect a lengthy jail sentence

Then why won't you do that?

feel free to indicate the post where I used the equivalent of "I believe it is ok"

What the heck is the purpose of telling me to feel free???
Speaking of key ingredient, obviously I was asking why you won't extrapolate intelligibly on your supposedly valid outlook.
Since you mentioned it tho, 98% of your claims are essentially "I believe it is OK/good/correct" with no supporting facts or intelligible explanation. You're preaching what you won't practice.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

H
So, bottomline, I think the question to ask ourselves is this:
Is it possible that nowadays, we tend to live a lifestyle that is not particularly conducive to knowing things as they really are?

Like those who wrote bibles thousands of years ago?

We usually believe human beings first anyway

Unless the human being is an atheist. All the more reason for God to make a public appearance, if only to eliminate the doubt.

If something is true, then it is true even if we heard it from a person. For example, it is possible to learn to ride a bike and then ride a bike - even though it was a person who instructed us how to ride a bike.

Show a bike and teach someone how to use it. Teach me about God and it means nothing because you can't produce Him. Honestly, the best thing a theist can hope for is that God remains mysterious. It's the only way He can exist.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

-=-

Nah, I don't believe in bikes.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

-=-

Nah, I don't believe in bikes.

Heheheh. You have a nice sardonic wit Strange, necessary here.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

In another thread, someone just said I lack humor.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

In another thread, someone just said I lack humor.

Wit doesn't have to be humorous. If you don't have it then you must be prepared to type long rebuttal posts no one will read. Wit cuts through to the chase and when it's good it speaks volumes.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Why is god only represented by excuses?

Because theists don't really know a damn thing about the God they worship & believe in. God having a purpose or reason is the biggest excuse for not placing the blame on God for all that can go wrong. But if He has a purpose then He is to blame, no? What am I missing here?

How do people know God has a purpose for doing what He does?

 

[lightgigantic]

What the heck is the purpose of telling me to feel free???

my mistake

I assumed there were valid premises to your argument

Speaking of key ingredient, obviously I was asking why you won't extrapolate intelligibly on your supposedly valid outlook.
Since you mentioned it tho, 98% of your claims are essentially "I believe it is OK/good/correct" with no supporting facts or intelligible explanation.

fine

then it shouldn't be too difficult for you to indicate one then
:shrug:

You're preaching what you won't practice.

I'm just trying to help you form a coherent argument

 

[lightgigantic]

Maybe a theist can answer this: Once indoctrinated, do you know God?

If you can answer this one - "once indoctrinated in a medical university, can one perform heart surgery?" - you can answer that one yourself.

(PS - If the answer is "yes" then I guess we can do away with all those pesky exams, papers and assignments that students complain about)

 

[lightgigantic]

Because theists don't really know a damn thing about the God they worship & believe in.

actually I would agree with you there, at least in part.

Most theists are simply concerned with necessarily vague secondary aspects of god (like "the creator", or "the provider" .... which more often than not stem from a primary aspect of themselves - "I am the enjoyer and god has to provide the goods ... or else" - all of which makes for an unsatisfactory standard of practice)

God having a purpose or reason is the biggest excuse for not placing the blame on God for all that can go wrong.

Sure ..... working with the assumption that the purpose of god is to provide the for the personal victory of every individual's (gross materialistically driven) ambition for name, fame, adoration, and/or distinction etc etc

But if He has a purpose then He is to blame, no? What am I missing here?

At a guess, the idea that "once something has purpose you can blame it for something/anything" is sound

How do people know God has a purpose for doing what He does?

The same way they understand the purpose of anything you care to mention - namely understanding it's nature and how they (as an individual) relate to/partake of it

 

[swarm]

If god has a purpose then isn't he incomplete and imperfect?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

If you can answer this one - "once indoctrinated in a medical university, can one perform heart surgery?" - you can answer that one yourself.

(PS - If the answer is "yes" then I guess we can do away with all those pesky exams, papers and assignments that students complain about)

You can do better than that. You'd have to indoctrinate the patient first.

How do people know God has a purpose for doing what He does?

The same way they understand the purpose of anything you care to mention - namely understanding it's nature and how they (as an individual) relate to/partake of it

Too easy. I suppose if I were to answer that one all I would have to say is "you're here aren't you?" There can be no purpose without a god but no god without a purpose. I like that one so much I put it in italics.

 

[lightgigantic]

If god has a purpose then isn't he incomplete and imperfect?

Why?
Because your sense of purpose stems from your incompletion and imperfection?

 

[lightgigantic]

You can do better than that. You'd have to indoctrinate the patient first.

Maybe an indoctrinated patient(s) would make for a more accessible means for a test subject, but I'm not sure how their indoctrination would assist in the (successful) performance of heart surgery.

Too easy. I suppose if I were to answer that one all I would have to say is "you're here aren't you?"

I'm not sure I follow?
Are you saying that purpose, per se, is an inextricable factor of consciousness?

There can be no purpose without a god but no god without a purpose. I like that one so much I put it in italics.

Even atheists have a sense of purpose ... its just the futility of it that's a cause of concern

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Maybe an indoctrinated patient(s) would make for a more accessible means for a test subject, but I'm not sure how their indoctrination would assist in the (successful) performance of heart surgery.

The patient has to believe he's about to be cured or whatever. The heart surgeon would be analogous to God in some respect.

Are you saying that purpose, per se, is an inextricable factor of consciousness?

Sorry, I was pretending to be a theist there. God's purpose would include my being here I imagine.

Even atheists have a sense of purpose ... its just the futility of it that's a cause of concern

If I have a purpose then I assigned it to myself. A purpose in life is one of the other things I don't believe in either.

 

[lightgigantic]

The patient has to believe he's about to be cured or whatever. The heart surgeon would be analogous to God in some respect.

Its your experience that this is how one comes to perform heart surgery and be successful at it?

Sorry, I was pretending to be a theist there. God's purpose would include my being here I imagine.

ok

If I have a purpose then I assigned it to myself.

On the contrary, your sense of purpose is greatly influenced by the culture and individuals who surround you

A purpose in life is one of the other things I don't believe in either.

The standard avenues (of gross materialism) are name, fame, adoration and/or distinction .... all within the medium of a rotting molars et al

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Its your experience that this is how one comes to perform heart surgery and be successful at it?

No, that is how the patient has to see it. Faith never meant so much, though not sure if it's in God or the surgeon?

On the contrary, your sense of purpose is greatly influenced by the culture and individuals who surround you

People tend to look for purpose in everybody. I just don't want my purpose to be dependent upon me dying in a plane crash so others can live.

The standard avenues (of gross materialism) are name, fame, adoration and/or distinction .... all within the medium of a rotting molars et al.

What is it with you and dental hygiene? I don't believe anyone has a purpose in life other than to eat, reproduce and survive. Those three are instinctive, not assigned by anything living.

 

[lightgigantic]

No, that is how the patient has to see it. Faith never meant so much, though not sure if it's in God or the surgeon?

So you don't think the degree of faith that a patient has in a surgeon plays any part in the likelihood of them undergoing surgery?

People tend to look for purpose in everybody. I just don't want my purpose to be dependent upon me dying in a plane crash so others can live.

Kind of a strange way to greet every morning, but horses for courses I guess .....

What is it with you and dental hygiene?

Dental hygiene has nothing to do with it.

Regardless of your affiliation with dentistry, your molars will rot

I don't believe anyone has a purpose in life other than to eat, reproduce and survive.

I guess I over estimated you when I assumed you would find expression in the standard (gross materialist) channels of name, fame, adoration, distinction, etc

Those three are instinctive, not assigned by anything living.

so the material reductionist dogma dictates, sure