A Funeral for Faithless persons

S.A.M. said:
What would a funeral for the faithless look like?
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Firstly, perhaps just a semantic quibble but, what exactly would a "faithless" be???

Second, I fail to see why a funerary ritual would be any different for a person that doesn't believe in fantastical entities as opposed to one that does. The particular ritual is always one prescribed by the cultural brethren of the deceased, having little, if anything to do with any purported invisible creatures....
 
Theists seem to have various notions about the personalities, beliefs, & general behavior of atheists.

Atheists seem to have various notions about the personalities, beliefs, & general behavior of theists.

In the USA, most (probably all) atheists have friends, relatives, coworkers, classmates, et cetera who are theists. Most theists have few (if any) friends, relatives, et cetera who are atheists.

On the basis of the above, it would seem that atheists have a better understanding of theists than vice versa.
 
MacGyver1968 said:
I went to a wake for a friend of mine today..he died of a heart attack. He didn't believe in god...nor either do I. While I mourn his death...I celebrate everything he contributed to this life.

Rest in peace Roland.
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There's a contradiction in here.
You don't believe in god, neither does he... so neither rest nor peace enter the equation.
He's just dead.

So clearly you believe in something, don't you?
Or is it that old platitudes merely pop into your head without you paying due consideration to what they actually mean?

Like an atheist saying "oh god that hurts" when he stubs his toe, I suppose. I've been known to do that myself.
 
glaucon said:
Firstly, perhaps just a semantic quibble but, what exactly would a "faithless" be???

Second, I fail to see why a funerary ritual would be any different for a person that doesn't believe in fantastical entities as opposed to one that does.
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Well we won't know until we ask. Indians are highly invested in ritual and I have never seen a funeral devoid of religious accoutrement but it seems like dying/mourning as an atheist can be a lonely business. But then it seems living as an atheist is a lonely business too and if it weren't for Christmas a lot of families might never see each other.
 
Trippy said:
So what you're saying is that Atheists aren't allowed to remember the deceased, and aren't allowed to feel sentimental at the passing of their physical form?
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Well in atheism it is not just the passing of their physical form. It is the end to their existence. They are from the point of their death. Non-existent.

My observation is why would they have sentimentality or any other emotions. It serves no survival purpose. If someone has ceased to exists then they are no longer of any survival benefit to the group so the time spend investing emotional energy such as sentimentality detracts from their main goal which is survival.


People who spend weeks in mourning are not as productive as others. If the main motivator of human evolution is survival then such emotions would have never evolved. When as person dies is should be to others as if that person never existed at all. Emotional investment in others is only of use if they are alive to offer mutual support. Once they are dead then they are useless to you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
Well in atheism it is not just the passing of their physical form. It is the end to their existence. They are from the point of their death. Non-existent.
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They remain as a memory in the mind of the living.

As for the rest Adstar, are you deliberately using an inaccurate understanding of atheism, or do you genuinely think that to not hold a belief in God also entails being emotionless? Since when does atheism equate to holding memory as valueless? Even dogs pine when one of their pack dies. It comes from forming a relationship... not from a belief in God.
 
Adstar said:
Well in atheism it is not just the passing of their physical form. It is the end to their existence. They are from the point of their death. Non-existent.

My observation is why would they have sentimentality or any other emotions. It serves no survival purpose. If someone has ceased to exists then they are no longer of any survival benefit to the group so the time spend investing emotional energy such as sentimentality detracts from their main goal which is survival.


People who spend weeks in mourning are not as productive as others. If the main motivator of human evolution is survival then such emotions would have never evolved. When as person dies is should be to others as if that person never existed at all. Emotional investment in others is only of use if they are alive to offer mutual support. Once they are dead then they are useless to you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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So you fake your emotions then? This is typical theistic stupidity.
 
Adstar said:
Well in atheism it is not just the passing of their physical form. It is the end to their existence. They are from the point of their death. Non-existent.

My observation is why would they have sentimentality or any other emotions. It serves no survival purpose. If someone has ceased to exists then they are no longer of any survival benefit to the group so the time spend investing emotional energy such as sentimentality detracts from their main goal which is survival.


People who spend weeks in mourning are not as productive as others. If the main motivator of human evolution is survival then such emotions would have never evolved. When as person dies is should be to others as if that person never existed at all. Emotional investment in others is only of use if they are alive to offer mutual support. Once they are dead then they are useless to you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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Lol. How very logical and darwinian of you!
 
SAM said:
Well we won't know until we ask.
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More to the point, you won't know until you attend to the answers -

to the real questions, which are not about the "faithless", eh?
 
S.A.M. said:
Well we won't know until we ask. Indians are highly invested in ritual and I have never seen a funeral devoid of religious accoutrement but it seems like dying/mourning as an atheist can be a lonely business. But then it seems living as an atheist is a lonely business too and if it weren't for Christmas a lot of families might never see each other.
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I still fail to see the point.
There's nothing that says a ritual cannot be performed by an individual....
 
Adstar said:
Well in atheism it is not just the passing of their physical form. It is the end to their existence. They are from the point of their death. Non-existent.

My observation is why would they have sentimentality or any other emotions. It serves no survival purpose. If someone has ceased to exists then they are no longer of any survival benefit to the group so the time spend investing emotional energy such as sentimentality detracts from their main goal which is survival.


People who spend weeks in mourning are not as productive as others. If the main motivator of human evolution is survival then such emotions would have never evolved. When as person dies is should be to others as if that person never existed at all. Emotional investment in others is only of use if they are alive to offer mutual support. Once they are dead then they are useless to you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Click to expand...

Given the day I'm having so far, I can find no words to describe this logic other than "Plain fucking stupid".

Emotion is not the exclusive domain of theists.
Missing someone - whether they be gone for a few days, or dead, is not the exclusive domain of theists.

Oh, and for the record, the emotions of mourning someone's loss, or missing them whether they be on holiday or dead does in fact have survival value - emotional attachment to members of a group encourages cohesiveness of that group. The feeling of 'loss' when a member of a family group goes missing, either temporarily or permanently encourages survival by encouraging co-operation within the group, protection of each other, and encouraging the group to go looking for it's members who have been seperated from the group (encouraging a kind of a herd mentality through emotional attachement).

So not only is your reasoning moronic, and based in logical fallacies (strawman hypotheses). It's also flat out wrong.

Addendum:
Altruism.
That's the word I was looking for.
Emotional attachment, and the sense of loss associated with it serve a purpose with regards to survival by encouraging a herd like mentality (whether it be at the family, tribal, or recently national), and a degree of altruism and loyalty
 
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Natural burial and memorialization is quickly gaining acceptance from all walks of life, and death. The Green Burial Council is actively working to promote conservation burial like The Ramsey Creek Preserve in Westminster, SC. Conservation burial is intended to preserve important green spaces from future development. For the cremation minded there is the idea of Eternal Reefs. Becoming part of a reef system that preserves and protects the marine environment. Between Eternal Reefs and COnservation Burial you have the surf and turf of the natural burial movement in the US. Eternal Reefs has more than 6300 fans on Facebook. eternalreefs.com facebook.com/eternalreefs greenburial.org
Thanks, George
 
Natural burial and memorialization is quickly gaining acceptance from all walks of life, and death. The Green Burial Council is actively working to promote conservation burial like The Ramsey Creek Preserve in Westminster, SC. Conservation burial is intended to preserve important green spaces from future development. For the cremation minded there is the idea of Eternal Reefs. Becoming part of a reef system that preserves and protects the marine environment. Between Eternal Reefs and Conservation Burial you have the surf and turf of the natural burial movement in the US. Eternal Reefs has more than 6300 fans on Facebook. eternalreefs.com facebook.com/eternalreefs greenburial.org
Thanks, George
 
There are a lot of 'companies' that offer atheist funerals but I can assure you that when we die, none of us are going to care in the slightest what kind of funeral we have. We'll be dead. A funeral is for the living, so whatever funeral they decide on giving your corpse, it won't concern you in the least.
 
I don't want a funeral at all... What a waste of money.

Just cremate me, and scatter me.
 
faithful or not, i've attended funerals where the minister used the situation for an opportunity to preach, and i thought that was really disrespectful.
 
I want people to dance on my grave and sing a medley of Boney M's greatest hits


"Ra Ra Rasputin, Russia's greatest love machine............!"
 
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