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M*W: Funerals are for the living, not the dead. A memorial dedicated to one's dearly departed is a reflection of what is going on in the mind of the living, and in your case, that would be both empty and horrible.
A Funeral for Faithless persons
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
M*W: Funerals are for the living, not the dead. A memorial dedicated to one's dearly departed is a reflection of what is going on in the mind of the living, and in your case, that would be both empty and horrible.
As I imagine you have, this is the closest I've been able to find:
http://www.polity.co.uk/book.asp?ref=9780745647203
http://cgi.ebay.com/Awareness-Missing-Jurgen-Habermas-Hardcover-2010-/341478559758
It doesn't seem to be available as an E-book.
As for my funeral arrangements?
As irreverant as it may sound, I plan on living forever, and so far, so good.
Oh, and no idea if this is any use to you or not, but..
http://flyvbjerg.plan.aau.dk/CIVSOC5 0PRINTBJS.pdf
http://flyvbjerg.plan.aau.dk/CIVSOC5 0PRINTBJS.pdf
Incidentally - the main reasons why I'm so irreverant with regards to my death are (I think) two fold.
Firstly, I always figured my death would be accidental, and horribly violent, probably involving an explosion, so I figured that an memorial to me would have to contain the words "Oops" or "I didn't see that coming", and there would probably me enough left of me to scrap into a shoebox (if I was lucky - I always anticipated being unceremoniously hosed off the walls).
Secondly, any ceremony isn't for my benefit, it's for the benefit of those that survive me, as far as I'm concerned, eat lots of red meat, drink lots of alcohol, and celebrate my life, don't mourn my loss.
Having said that, there is a family plot in another part of the country, and I've often thought it might be nice for the sake of those surviving me to have some kind of memorial there for them to remember the good times (or, for a permanent record for any of my descendants trying to figure out their genealogy).
Firstly, I always figured my death would be accidental, and horribly violent, probably involving an explosion, so I figured that an memorial to me would have to contain the words "Oops" or "I didn't see that coming", and there would probably me enough left of me to scrap into a shoebox (if I was lucky - I always anticipated being unceremoniously hosed off the walls).
Secondly, any ceremony isn't for my benefit, it's for the benefit of those that survive me, as far as I'm concerned, eat lots of red meat, drink lots of alcohol, and celebrate my life, don't mourn my loss.
Having said that, there is a family plot in another part of the country, and I've often thought it might be nice for the sake of those surviving me to have some kind of memorial there for them to remember the good times (or, for a permanent record for any of my descendants trying to figure out their genealogy).
I went to a wake for a friend of mine today..he died of a heart attack. He didn't believe in god...nor either do I. While I mourn his death...I celebrate everything he contributed to this life.
Rest in peace Roland.
Rest in peace Roland.
I was thinking about this question today and a question formed in me.
Why would a true atheist have a funeral or take part in a funeral?
As far as atheism is concerned when a person dies that person ceases to exist. If a person ceases to exist then why have any function of remembrance for them? It serves no purpose. I can see that remembering the achievements of a person may be of use in inspiring others to achievement but no one needs a funeral ceremony to do that.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Why would a true atheist have a funeral or take part in a funeral?
As far as atheism is concerned when a person dies that person ceases to exist. If a person ceases to exist then why have any function of remembrance for them? It serves no purpose. I can see that remembering the achievements of a person may be of use in inspiring others to achievement but no one needs a funeral ceremony to do that.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
So what you're saying is that Atheists aren't allowed to remember the deceased, and aren't allowed to feel sentimental at the passing of their physical form?
So emotion and sentimentality are the exclusive domain of the theist?
Do you think that a funeary ceremony has to involve a gathering of some sort? Or does a quiet shot of Whiskey at an appointed time in the nearest bar not count in your opinion?
Yellow Jacket
Registered Senior Member
Really glad you feel that the deceased are frying in hell. Glad YOU feel the funeral for the godless are empty and horrible.
Hmmm, I feel that the funerals are for the god fearing are ridiculous and waste of time.
Glad you spared the family member your opinion.
Why is that you try to preach your religion to us and think insulting the god less is going to sway them your way? It does nothing but reinforce our opinions on the matter. I wouldn't want to be part of a religion that speaks to others the way you do.
Also, being a Christian, I thought the body was created in the image of "God" and would do nothing to ruin your body? I thought cremation was out of the question, seeing it's "God's body" not yours? He created it didn't he? I'm confused by this.
I take part in the religious funerals of family / friends out of respect for their remaining family and friends - and to honour their memory.
Personally I have no need to go. The funeral itself doesn't really aid me in getting over the sense of loss, and I'll remember them whether I go to the funeral or not.
And as an atheist I will leave my body-disposal arrangements to those I leave behind. If they want a religious service they can. If they want to donate my body to science they can. They can do anything they want.
Other than to aid in the healing process... or do you think atheists feel no sense of loss when someone dies? If so then your view of atheists is odd and, in my case, wrong.
Bear in mind that the "remembrance" aspect of a funeral need not be religious: it could just be having a party / gathering / meal in their memory.
Some friends and I still meet once a year specifically for a meal to remember a friend of ours who died far too young. None of us are religious. But it is a function of remembrance.
adstar,
On the other hand why do the religious have funeral services when as far as they are concerned death is merely a magical gateway to another life and you'll get to see them again when you die. So death for the religious is no big deal.
Religious funerals are in two parts, one is the recognition of the individual and their life, and the second part is the prayer and religious content. An atheist funereal simply omits the religious part.
Because a funeral isn't a necessarily religious event. A funeral is a ceremony marking a person's death. The nature of the ceremony will differ depending on the culture or the beliefs of those involved, and those may well involve religious components, but which are not mandatory for a funeral.
Correct.
Because it is an extraordinarily sad event and it is important to review and remember the deceased so that the memories of them will be enhanced and highlighted.
On the other hand why do the religious have funeral services when as far as they are concerned death is merely a magical gateway to another life and you'll get to see them again when you die. So death for the religious is no big deal.
And similar eulogies are part of religious ceremonies, so why have them there?
Religious funerals are in two parts, one is the recognition of the individual and their life, and the second part is the prayer and religious content. An atheist funereal simply omits the religious part.
Excuse me, but aren't Abraham, Isaac and Jacob all dead?
Not if what Jesus said is true.
The question becomes "How would He know?"
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Not if what Jesus said is true.
The question becomes "How would He know?"
What did he say?
Depends on the brand of atheist - quite a few of them believe in reincarnation, souls, ghosts, or other forms of continuing personal existence.adstar said:
Be the other way around, wouldn't it? "Functions of remembrance" make much more sense in respect of those who no longer exist, than those who still do.adstar said:
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M*W: I know, I know, you're finished with me, yada yada yada, but I have a couple of questions anyway, and I'm sure the rest of the forum wants to hear your answers (even if you don't acknowledge the questions):
Q: What is a true atheist? Am I missing something? Please enlighten the atheists of the world.
A:
Q:What does being an atheist have anything to do with why one of them shouldn't dare take part in a funeral?
A:
Q: What is a false atheist? I can answer that one myself.
A: A false atheist is a christian who sits in the pew wishing they were somewhere else (i.e. fishing, getting their hair/nails done, or running with the bulls, etc.). They are also called "false christians," but you can't tell the difference between the two.
Sweeter words have never been spoken on Sciforums....
By the way what about funerals for the bad, but theist guys? After all they have to be in Hell 2.0 or something...
As an atheist I'm not interested in my family and friends holding a typical funeral for me upon my death. I've told my wife I'd like what's left of my body after any useful parts are removed to either be donated to medical research or disposed of in the most environmentally friendly way possible.
As for people sobbing around my grave, no thanks. A big piss up will suffice.
As for people sobbing around my grave, no thanks. A big piss up will suffice.
"That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand..."
I'm sure I've posted this before. And it has been used at atheist funerals.
Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness. Conversely, if not forgiveness but something else may be required to ensure any possible benefit for which you may be eligible after the destruction of your body, I ask that this, whatever it may be, be granted or withheld, as the case may be, in such a manner as to insure your receiving said benefit. I ask this in my capacity as your elected intermediary between yourself and that which may not be yourself, but which may have an interest in the matter of your receiving as much as it is possible for you to receive of this thing, and which may in some way be influenced by this ceremony. Amen.
The Possibly Proper Death Litany.
Roger Zelazny, Creatures of Light and Darkness.
Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness. Conversely, if not forgiveness but something else may be required to ensure any possible benefit for which you may be eligible after the destruction of your body, I ask that this, whatever it may be, be granted or withheld, as the case may be, in such a manner as to insure your receiving said benefit. I ask this in my capacity as your elected intermediary between yourself and that which may not be yourself, but which may have an interest in the matter of your receiving as much as it is possible for you to receive of this thing, and which may in some way be influenced by this ceremony. Amen.
The Possibly Proper Death Litany.
Roger Zelazny, Creatures of Light and Darkness.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
It should have all the elements of the first 30 seconds of this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4MRk_TJZAg
THAT'S what it was called - I've been racking my brains trying to remember what it was called.