A challange of INSIGNIFIGANT propositions

[Quantum Quack]

Give me one reason why I should bother responding to your inuendo?
btw I haven't reneged on any agreement regarding evidence. It's just a matter of appropriate timing and other factors at play.

Sorry if that conflicts with your obvious impatience but stiff sh*t, there are more important things happening than consoling your discomfort.
Certainly the truth of your patronising friendship has been thoroughly exposed ...talking about the truth..

You know brent, you and QQ could just be honest with yourselves and admit that you are afflicted with schizoprenia. Some key symptoms that you have both exhibited are hallucination and delusional paranoia. It might be interesting to note that people without schizoprenia don't experience things the way you and QQ do.

Either way, it's nothing to be ashamed of.

btw there is nothing to be ashamed of is there CC?
And you believe hallucinations are a figment of imaginary self delusion? Boy are you in trouble....

 

[Quantum Quack]

I have writen exhaustively on many subjects including the reasons why psychic phenonema can not be evidenced currently in a way that satisfies the scientific method.

If you want I can give you a list of the postings and now seeing as you and your scientific buddies can not and I repeat can not support the notion of light particles [ photons] travelling there is a way of scientifically describing psychic phenonema.
The death of your flying pig called Photon means that the reality of psychic phenonema [FTL communications and manipulations ] can actually be discussed rationally some time in the future when the dust settles...

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Give me one reason why I should bother responding to your inuendo?

Only you can give yourself a reason to do anything.

btw I haven't reneged on any agreement regarding evidence. It's just a matter of appropriate timing and other factors at play.

When you state that you don't care about demands for evidence, it kind of puts you at odds for agreements on producing evidence. If you still intend to produce it, what is your timetable looking like?

Sorry if that conflicts with your obvious impatience but stiff sh*t, there are more important things happening than consoling your discomfort.

I am not discomforted by anything in this or related threads; however, you are right in the implication that I am applying more pressure to you.

Certainly the truth of your patronising friendship has been thoroughly exposed ...talking about the truth..

Would you prefer dishonesty?

btw there is nothing to be ashamed of is there CC?
And you believe hallucinations are a figment of imaginary self delusion? Boy are you in trouble....

Not really. Hallucinations are internally generated experiences. Delusion is when something is accepted as true despite clear evidence to the contrary. They aren't necessarily related but can be interrelated of course (i.e. accepting that a halucination is real for example).

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I have writen exhaustively on many subjects including the reasons why psychic phenonema can not be evidenced currently in a way that satisfies the scientific method.

If you want I can give you a list of the postings and now seeing as you and your scientific buddies can not and I repeat can not support the notion of light particles [ photons] travelling there is a way of scientifically describing psychic phenonema.
The death of your flying pig called Photon means that the reality of psychic phenonema [FTL communications and manipulations ] can actually be discussed rationally some time in the future when the dust settles...

If you want to see photons travel, turn on a lamp and report back on whether or not you see light.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Not really. Hallucinations are internally generated experiences. Delusion is when something is accepted as true despite clear evidence to the contrary. They aren't necessarily related but can be interrelated of course (i.e. accepting that a halucination is real for example).

and this is undertsandable point of view given the general current understanding of how the body/mind works. Howver it is not fact and only a sad indictment of pure arrogance to assume that it is.

Halucinations are in fact necessary aspects of mental function that are being displayed to the conscious mind for reasons that science have no idea about. Dream states that exhibit, to the consious world, that are of fundamental importance to the welfare of that person experiencing them. They are indeed real when the correct associations and understandings are achieved.
To claim then as unreal and promote this upon people due to ignorance is simply a terrible thing to do. For the experience of a so called halucination is in deed real to the person experiencing them and so is their sense of personal sensory credibility extremely important to them.

 

[Quantum Quack]

If you want to see photons travel, turn on a lamp and report back on whether or not you see light.

ha..point in question...see, this is exactly why the world is in the shit.
You want me to prove a nonexistant entity....why should I do that.
The light effect is caused by other means and so to is gravity and inertia and a few other interesting constants.

No...you show me a travelling photon and I'll get to see the light so to speak....

the flying pig called photon is the biggest scientific fraud ever perpetrated upon ourselves.

Show evidence that a photon actually travels from A to B that is not purely circumstancial and based purely on effects that do not include effects that directly indicate traveling.

And you tell me you are a skeptic and have the nerve to accuse me of being delusional.......ha

For the light effect to happen there requies no mythical travelling photon...and the only reason you will say poohy to that is because you simply do not understand how the light effect can be with out a traveling photon.
A bit like saying a Rubics cube is impossible to solve until you realise...hey I gotta learn how to solve it first....

 

[Crunchy Cat]

and this is undertsandable point of view given the general current understanding of how the body/mind works. Howver it is not fact and only a sad indictment of pure arrogance to assume that it is.

A fact is an observation. Both words "hallucination" and "delusion" were made to explicitly define specific observations. While there are certainly undiscovered aspecs to the mechanics of "hallucinations" and "delusion", they are nonetheless observable and / or experiencable. They are therefore fact.

Halucinations are in fact necessary aspects of mental function that are being displayed to the conscious mind for reasons that science have no idea about.

Correct on the first part. I'm not so sure about the second part. Do you have an example?

Dream states that exhibit, to the consious world, that are of fundamental importance to the welfare of that person experiencing them. They are indeed real when the correct associations and understandings are achieved.
To claim then as unreal and promote this upon people due to ignorance is simply a terrible thing to do. For the experience of a so called halucination is in deed real to the person experiencing them and so is their sense of personal sensory credibility extremely important to them.

My first thought is that you might not understand what I mean when I say hallucination isn't real. The experience is a very real experience; however, it's generated solely by the brain. If an apple on the table is a hallucination then you do get an experience; however, the apple isn't externally there... hence it's not a real apple.

A can believe whatever they want concerning a hallucinatory apple and if they do so to protect their sensory credibility that's fine by me. The moment someone asserts to me that a hallucinatory apple is real is the moment that person is stepping out of their safe zone and is going to be confronted with truth.

Take Ozzie for example. He asserted he could demonstrate a specific psychic ability. I gave him an opportunity to step out of the safe zone and be confronted with truth... which was he couldn't successfully perform.

 

[Quantum Quack]

A fact is an observation. Both words "hallucination" and "delusion" were made to explicitly define specific observations. While there are certainly undiscovered aspecs to the mechanics of "hallucinations" and "delusion", they are nonetheless observable and / or experiencable. They are therefore fact.



Correct on the first part. I'm not so sure about the second part. Do you have an example?



My first thought is that you might not understand what I mean when I say hallucination isn't real. The experience is a very real experience; however, it's generated solely by the brain. If an apple on the table is a hallucination then you do get an experience; however, the apple isn't externally there... hence it's not a real apple.

define real?

And as you have no real understanding of the psychic nature of the mind and in fact you will not allow understanding because of the attittudes that amongst other things allow a mythical photon to travel form A to B when in fact it can't be evidenced in doing so of course you will attempt to fostor confidence as a way of hiding your ignorance.

The photon has less reality to it than your so called brain generation theories. And as both go hand in hand as current understanding of how the brain works is dependent on a mythical entity called a photon , is it little wonder that you may be gravely mistaken and condemning millions sorry I meant billions of people to a subhuman existance simply because of sheer ignorance and I might add arrogance.

A can believe whatever they want concerning a hallucinatory apple and if they do so to protect their sensory credibility that's fine by me. The moment someone asserts to me that a hallucinatory apple is real is the moment that person is stepping out of their safe zone and is going to be confronted with truth.

Truth that you don't understand why the apple is appearing or truth that you do?

Take Ozzie for example. He asserted he could demonstrate a specific psychic ability. I gave him an opportunity to step out of the safe zone and be confronted with truth... which was he couldn't successfully perform.

Except the tension nearly shut down your television set if I remember well enough...according to my notes there was evidence of a tension build up on the initial trial [ trial number 1 ] that lead to your tv shutting down by itself. No big deal....until you understand what was happening and why the trial failed to present valid evidence of FTL transmission of information.

You may also recall that our main concern was not to cause any harm to you or Prince James who happens to have disappeared from the forum I might add since discussions about his obsession with infinitesimals and zero. [ zeno's paradox]

 

[Crunchy Cat]

ha..point in question...see, this is exactly why the world is in the shit.
You want me to prove a nonexistant entity....why should I do that.
The light effect is caused by other means and so to is gravity and inertia and a few other interesting constants.

I'm not quite sure what you are talking about but light is a form of energy much like heat or charge. When you see light "spontaneously" (ex. when turning on a lamp), energy is going through several conversions that ultimately end up as visible light (and that is what hits your retina).

No...you show me a travelling photon and I'll get to see the light so to speak....

Well, that's just it. Whenever you see anything it's because photons are flying into your eyes. But maybe what you're asking for is to bounce smaller particles off of a photon that's moving along and then create an image on some computer screen of the photon. If that's the case then I don't think technology as at that point yet.

the flying pig called photon is the biggest scientific fraud ever perpetrated upon ourselves.

Show evidence that a photon actually travels from A to B that is not purely circumstancial and based purely on effects that do not include effects that directly indicate traveling.

Seeing the light from your lamp demonstrates this. Here is another example:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7420-light-gun-fires-photons-one-by-one.html

And you tell me you are a skeptic and have the nerve to accuse me of being delusional.......ha

For the light effect to happen there requies no mythical travelling photon...and the only reason you will say poohy to that is because you simply do not understand how the light effect can be with out a traveling photon.
A bit like saying a Rubics cube is impossible to solve until you realise...hey I gotta learn how to solve it first....

Unless you are referring to light traveling as a schrondinger wave when there are no observers, I really don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I'm not quite sure what you are talking about but light is a form of energy much like heat or charge. When you see light "spontaneously" (ex. when turning on a lamp), energy is going through several conversions that ultimately end up as visible light (and that is what hits your retina).



Well, that's just it. Whenever you see anything it's because photons are flying into your eyes. But maybe what you're asking for is to bounce smaller particles off of a photon that's moving along and then create an image on some computer screen of the photon. If that's the case then I don't think technology as at that point yet.



Seeing the light from your lamp demonstrates this. Here is another example:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7420-light-gun-fires-photons-one-by-one.html







Unless you are referring to light traveling as a schrondinger wave when there are no observers, I really don't know what you are talking about.

no you wouldn't...

You talk as if the photon is a proven causation of the effect we call light or EMR and I am afraid to tell you that it hasn't been proven so please don't assume to tell me how it all happens until you have the evidence to support it yourself.
Light hitting the retina....travelling photons flying into your eyes...what a load of unevidenced crock sh*t.

The point being is that the travelling at 'c' photon model used by science to explain the causation of the light effect has no evidence to support it.
That is a fact and I have put up a token $100 usd to any one who can prove that fact wrong.
You are quoting unproven theoretics and claiming it as fact and that is what this issue is all about.

 

[Quantum Quack]

ha referring to that link, one has got to wonder whether the single photon is in fact a particle or wave.....hmmmmm a single wave of photons consists of how many particles...if they can prove that the particle is in fact a particle and not a wave they win a Nobel...

 

[Crunchy Cat]

define real?

And as you have no real understanding of the psychic nature of the mind and in fact you will not allow understanding because of the attittudes that amongst other things allow a mythical photon to travel form A to B when in fact it can't be evidenced in doing so of course you will attempt to fostor confidence as a way of hiding your ignorance.

At present there is no evidence that psychic phenomena of any kind really exists. The phenomena that does exist claims that psychic phenomena is real.

The photon has less reality to it than your so called brain generation theories. And as both go hand in hand as current understanding of how the brain works is dependent on a mythical entity called a photon , is it little wonder that you may be gravely mistaken and condemning millions sorry I meant billions of people to a subhuman existance simply because of sheer ignorance and I might add arrogance.

I'm sorry but I really don't know what you're talking about.

Truth that you don't understand why the apple is appearing or truth that you do?

Truth that the hallucinatory apple is internally generated.

Except the tension nearly shut down your television set if I remember well enough...according to my notes there was evidence of a tension build up on the initial trial [ trial number 1 ] that lead to your tv shutting down by itself.

It is correct that my television did turn off by itself during the initial trial. In the years that have passed that very same television has had problems when turning it on or off. Sometimes it turns on and then turns off a few moments later. Sometimes the reverse happens. I think the electronics are just funky; however, it was never made clear how anything "psychic" could have affected that.

No big deal....until you understand what was happening and why the trial failed to present valid evidence of FTL transmission of information.

If you understand why the test failed then you should fix the problem and do it again.

You may also recall that our main concern was not to cause any harm to you or Prince James who happens to have disappeared from the forum I might add since discussions about his obsession with infinitesimals and zero. [ zeno's paradox]

I do recall that concern. That "harm" could be a valid source of evidence for you. I would suggest repeating the experiment without the safety on. Prince James did indeed disappear from the forum. That's what happens on the internet. People come and people go.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

no you wouldn't...

You talk as if the photon is a proven causation of the effect we call light or EMR and I am afraid to tell you that it hasn't been proven so please don't assume to tell me how it all happens until you have the evidence to support it yourself.

A photon isn't a causation of light. It "is" light.

Light hitting the retina....travelling photons flying into your eyes...what a load of unevidenced crock sh*t.

Just like the whole field of optics...

The point being is that the travelling at 'c' photon model used by science to explain the causation of the light effect has no evidence to support it.
That is a fact and I have put up a token $100 usd to any one who can prove that fact wrong.
You are quoting unproven theoretics and claiming it as fact and that is what this issue is all about.

Photon's don't cause light dude. They *are* light.

 

[Quantum Quack]

A photon isn't a causation of light. It "is" light.



Just like the whole field of optics...



Photon's don't cause light dude. They *are* light.

well prove that they travel from A to B and you got yourself $100 usd.
edit:
from A to B across vacant vacummous space....

 

[Crunchy Cat]

ha referring to that link, one has got to wonder whether the single photon is in fact a particle or wave.....hmmmmm a single wave of photons consists of how many particles...if they can prove that the particle is in fact a particle and not a wave they win a Nobel...

Photons are both. Same thing with atoms, electrons, protons, buckminsterfullerines... even your ass hair.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Photons are both. Same thing with atoms, electrons, protons, buckminsterfullerines... even your ass hair.

and you think saying that wins $100 usd...sorry but I get to hang onto it for a while longer.

 

[Quantum Quack]

tempted to set up a contra Rand site with a challenge for any one to support the photon model for the light effect with actual evidence... would be so much fun simply because I know already that you can't support it.
just need to find a couple of million quid as a stake and away we go...make more money out of it than Rand is out of debunking pyschic pheno I can assure you.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

well prove that they travel from A to B and you got yourself $100 usd.
edit:
from A to B across vacant vacummous space....

The requirement isn't possible. There isn't a nonometer of space that's vacant; however, if you want to see measurments of photons going between point A and B, here you go:

http://nanophotonics.ece.cornell.edu/Publications/All-optical slow-light on a photonic chip.pdf

p.s. Keep your money.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

and you think saying that wins $100 usd...sorry but I get to hang onto it for a while longer.

I'm just relaying it. QM says it and many experiments have demonstrated it.

 

[Quantum Quack]

The requirement isn't possible. There isn't a nonometer of space that's vacant; however, if you want to see measurments of photons going between point A and B, here you go:

http://nanophotonics.ece.cornell.edu/Publications/All-optical slow-light on a photonic chip.pdf

p.s. Keep your money.

certainly will and not because you are being generous either.
The link refers to light traveling in a medium other than vacuum as science has determined light to travel across at the speed of 'c'
Prove that light indeed travels across the vacuum, say for example between the sun and Earth and you do indeed get $100 or at least I will donate it to the local Salvation Army Red Shield Appeal.

We have plenty observable recordings of effects in arrival of light but none on transit. So we do not really know how light manages to get from A to B across a vacumm and that is all there is to it...