15 yr old girl, beat up by cop?

[Search & Destroy]

Every situation calls for a new stance - you can't just apply the same moral judgment on everything that you can make analogous.

S&D actually you can

Ok you can. But you shouldn't
ie.
1.) A man says 'things' about your girlfriend all night and you finally push him.
2.) There is an old woman crossing the street. You push her.

Anyone who judges both offenses equally is by most people's standards a moron.

Assult is illegal, anyone convicted should face penelties no matter what they were doing or who you are.

both my scenarios can be described as assault. Why should they both face penalties? I can see why #2 would, but #1 was provoked and tormented. In our world, outside of ideals, if you corner an otherwise docile animal it will strike!

Only direct threat to yourself or others can excuse it.

Direct physical threat? But you must consider social factors (like provocation) - these create a large majority of assault cases.

And let me re-emphasize another point. Sending him to jail will ruin his life - police officers don't get treated fairly in prisons, especially the ones they are sent to for assault.

Police officers getting 15 years is not the same as a mafia-lord getting sent for 15 years. The mafia-lord is going to plunge that cop every night.

Do you understand my point yet? There is no little book of punishments, we must treat each case individually.

Every situation calls for a new stance - you can't just apply the same moral judgment on everything that you can make analogous.

S&D actually you can

You can, but you shouldn't.

 

[Search & Destroy]

Yeah, the same sort of lesson Mugabe learned. If you have power, go nuts! You can lie, assault, steal, murder and rape those of lower station with impunity.

Off-topic. The post above goes for you too. It is critical to stop lumping similar situations into one ethical judgment.

 

[Asguard]

actually provication was REMOVED as a defence for assult and murder thankfully. oh and if anything a police officer should be treated MORE harshly for this sort of assult than a member of the general public. Police officer are surposed to be proffessional if they want to be thugs they pay the price

 

[John99]

oh and if anything a police officer should be treated MORE harshly for this sort of assult than a member of the general public. Police officer are surposed to be proffessional if they want to be thugs they pay the price

you cannot have two sets of laws based on a persons job. is justice on a floating scale to you?

 

[swarm]

But you must consider social factors (like provocation) - these create a large majority of assault cases.

FYI, police officers in most places are by law and tradition held to a higher level of provocation than ordinary citizens.

For example, an ordinary citizen who is faced with "fighting words" is considered to be provoked if he attacks the provocateur, but a policeman is not.

This is in part because a policeman is armed and also because an ordinary citizen generally has no legal recourse (aka is not allowed to fight back) if attacked by a policeman.

A policeman is just supposed to defend himself or others from actual threat of harm and then just enough to subdue the perpetrator.

Man handling a subject under custody is a big no-no, it doesn't matter what she did or what she might say.

 

[Search & Destroy]

FYI, police officers in most places are by law and tradition held to a higher level of provocation than ordinary citizens.

For example, an ordinary citizen who is faced with "fighting words" is considered to be provoked if he attacks the provocateur, but a policeman is not.

This is in part because a policeman is armed and also because an ordinary citizen generally has no legal recourse (aka is not allowed to fight back) if attacked by a policeman.

A policeman is just supposed to defend himself or others from actual threat of harm and then just enough to subdue the perpetrator.

Man handling a subject under custody is a big no-no, it doesn't matter what she did or what she might say.

I agree, the police officer should be punished. He should lose his badge, get put into anger management, apologize, and get ten thousand hours of community service.

 

[John99]

For example, an ordinary citizen who is faced with "fighting words" is considered to be provoked if he attacks the provocateur...

just so you know, that is not an accurate statement. but at this point i suppose it is not that important.

 

[copernicus66]

The officer and the girl aren't married.

Great. So I'll beat the shit out of my girlfriend if she provokes me.

He didn't beat the shit out of her.

He beat up on her while she was immobilised.

Every situation calls for a new stance - you can't just apply the same moral judgment on everything that you can make analogous.

Comparing a new situation with a well established situation helps put the new situation into perspective. The fact of the matter is that society frowns on the notion that you can assault someone because they 'provoked' you. This begs the question: Why should the police officer be exempt not only from social norms, but the law of the land?

If you're just trying to portray your meaning, you need to be more precise and less insulting.

Very well. The next time my female secretary provokes me and challenges my authority, I'll slam her to the ground and beat up on her. Better?

 

[Thoreau]

Yes you are the only one who has no concept of the law.

The fact is that she was read her Miranda rights and thrown in jail. When you are read your rights, all of your other rights are taken away.

"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to be speak to an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at government expense."
Nowhere in here does it say 'You have the right to be exempt from a beating when assaulting an officer'.

And if you want to get technical, she assaulted the police FIRST by kicking a shoe at them. Assault is assault no matter how simple. You can flick someone in the nose, kick a shoe or even bean someone in the face with a cro-bar. It's still assault.

So I personally believed she deserved what she had coming to her.

 

[Liebling]

No. On all counts, no.

She was NOT read her rights, she was in for questioning on suspicion and not caught doing anything. She did not have a parent or lawyer present. She was NOT being charged, nor was she arrested. So yeah... no Miranda Rights. Just a scared kid being pushed around by two very big adults.

And the shoe was not kicked at an officer, it even says so in HIS report. They asked her to remove her shoes, and she did NOT direct the shoe at anyone. Just kicked it out the door. But she was being "lippy".

Next time you get lippy, remind someone nearly twice your size that they can beat the shit out of you for it, k? Because you would be getting "what you have coming to you"?? What kind of crap is that? Great, lets beat the crap out of everyone who has it coming... because physically harming people SOLVES the worlds problems, right?

Are you people mad? She's 15, and he had a right to subdue her IF she was being combatant (which she wasn't) but then to throw TWO punches at her while she was subdued and on the ground?? Come on.

Don't give me the "she assaulted first, we have the right to beat the living fuck out of her" line... it's crap. And ANYONE who feels that way has NO business in law enforcement. The police are there to serve and protect... NOT to dole punishment. That's the courts job. This is not a martial law country...

The courts will do their intended job for this officer too, and I hope they come to the right conclusion.

 

[Thoreau]

It doesn't change the fact that she had no respect for the officers.

I still stand by my judgement.

 

[Liebling]

So anyone who doesn't respect you should be beaten up by you? You have every right to kick the shit out of anyone who disrespects you verbally??

 

[Thoreau]

So anyone who doesn't respect you should be beaten up by you? You have every right to kick the shit out of anyone who disrespects you verbally??

No. Only law enforcement.

I was raised to respect my elders, as well as authority.

 

[Liebling]

Because they are flawless, or are they human just like us?

You can't make people respect you, even as a police officer. And they train police officers not to blow their top if someone is disrespecting them.

If a police officer is clearly using his power to abuse people, should he be respected because he's a police officer?

I don't believe you are a sheeple though. You can't really believe you should respect and be nice to everyone in authority, no matter how illogical that person is being. I think you are just being willful now, because I think you are too intelligent to be a blind follower of the machine.

 

[Search & Destroy]

Very well. The next time my female secretary provokes me and challenges my authority, I'll slam her to the ground and beat up on her. Better?

Honestly, no it's not better. You're still analyzing a different scenario, as well as being a tad insulting. Sorry I'm not going to humor you.

 

[Nasor]

Nowhere in here does it say 'You have the right to be exempt from a beating when assaulting an officer'.

She didn't assault the police. She was shouting insults at them through her cell door, so they decided to go in and beat her up. If you really consider slowly flicking a shoe toward someone to be 'assault,' you must live in an interesting universe.

 

[Nasor]

Of course these particular cops were behaving badly, but we should all remember that not all cops are like this. It's a shame when the majority of cops who are thuggish, lying bullies make the minority of good, honest cops look bad.

 

[S.A.M.]

What kind of person wants to be a cop?

 

[desi]

Part of a policeman's job is to restrain unruly arrested people and defend themselves from attacks. Did the man overreact? Maybe. He pushed her and got her to the ground and restrained her. He did his job. Like the man said, maybe she learned a lesson. For all that police officer knew she was going to escalate her attacks and end up hurting him or herself. He had to stop that from happening. It sure wasn't pretty, but I can understand why he did it.

 

[Orleander]

why didn't they just taze her? No fuss, no muss, perfectly legal