Zionism - What exactly is it?

R

Red Devil

Born Again Athiest
Registered Senior Member
Following on from another thread, in which I got totally confused (and wrong) I would like to know, in purely laymans terms, what is Zionism and how does it affect middle eastern politics and thinking? I wrongly said somebody was anti jewish when in fact the person was anti zionist. My misguided notes on this led me to believe this was the same as semitism, which it obviously isn't. My fault.
 
Nein, no problem. Zionism is the belief that the Reinrassig nation of Jews have a lebensraum national homeland in Palestine which gives them prior claim to it over all the untermensh indigenous peoples who are not of the Jewish faith.

Some Jews consider antizionism as antisemitism for example, Abe Foxman, who heads the ADL in the US

“Can you be anti-Zionist and not be an anti-Semite? Almost never. Unless you can prove to me you're against nationalism. If you're one of those unique individuals in this world that's opposed to American nationalism, French nationalism, Palestinian nationalism, then you can be opposed to Jewish nationalism. Is it racist? You bet it is. Every nationalism is racist. It sets its laws of citizenship, it sets its own capital… It sets its songs, it sets its values. It is, if you will, exclusive, and you can even call it racist. But if the only nationalism in the world that is racist is Jewish nationalism, then you're an anti-Semite.. I don't want to make any apologies for it. ”
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http://mondoweiss.net/2009/03/foxman-is-zionism-racism-you-bet-it-is-all-nationalism-is-.html

Most other people can tell the difference between a nationality and race based nations.
 
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Excepting among other things of course that Jews are indigenous.
 
Yeah homo sovieticus is indigenous to Canaan alright After all, Bejamin Milikovsky Netanyahu found a ring in Jerusalem with his Lithuanian Palestinian ancestors name on it. And Evet Lvovich Avigdor Liberman is a Russian Canaanite bouncer. Clearly they take precedence in the fatherland homeland of the Aryans Jews before the Palestinian refugees who were kicked out during the naqba. After all they are atheists Jews and God gave them this land! It says so right there in Der Judenstaat the Torah!
 
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Historically, Zionism is the belief that Jews should have a state. Modern Zionism is the belief that the Jews should continue to rule Israel.
 
S.A.M. said:
Yeah homo sovieticus is indigenous to Canaan alright
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Shall I assume your categorization of Jews as a different species is merely double-irony, or the final emergence of that natural disposition of the religious extremist?
 
Call it the perusal of blogs by Israeli journalists instead

The term “Homo Sovieticus” has a very distinct meaning. It refers to someone who accepted basic Soviet thinking, including blind acceptance of claims made by authority and isolation from and hatred of the outside world. You could add several other symptoms of the Soviet systems – disregard of human rights, contempt for democracy and the democratic process, and rampant racism towards “uncivilized people”, such as Asians or Muslims – and you would have described Avigdor Liberman, as well as most of his followers, to a T.

I never claimed that Israel was ever progressive; I am well aware of Israeli history. I have very little patience with yearning for the lost “little Israel” of 1967, if only because it still imposed military rule over its Arab citizens until, officially, 1966.

But to say that the massive influx of Soviet émigrés into Israel did not make it a more racist place is, so sorry, nonsense. The Soviet emigrants tilted Israel sharply to the right. Yes, there are exceptions; there are always exceptions, but exceptions are precisely that. A recent poll, looking for signs of fascism in Israel, found most Israeli reject the notion of a “strong leader” – but 53% of the Soviet émigrés support one. They still do, in the old homeland, where Putin is king and Stalin is making a comeback. Russian Jews have, to some extent, brought Russian political mores with them to Israel. Pointing out the obvious is not racism.

In the same vein, to say that the rising numbers of Jewish Orthodox in Israel has nothing to do with the rise of racism and human-hatred in Israel is, sorry again, patently bullshit. For the vast majority of the Jewish population in Israel, Judaism is the fuel which drives their racism. Polls have shown, time and again, that the more an Israeli identifies himself as an Orthodox Jew, the more likely is he to be racist and intolerant.

I made remarks regarding Liberman’s poor Hebrew. I stand by them, due to the – perhaps quaint – belief that if you want to be the Foreign Minister, then you bloody well have to master at least one of the official languages of the country, particularly if you claim to “speak Arabic”, i.e. being able to intimidate Arabs. Liberman is here since 1978. He had time to learn, but apparently that’s not important enough for him.

And finally, there is something exceptionally loathsome in an émigré whose politics are based on the idea of expelling the native population. If saying so means being called an Ahusal, I guess I’ll have to live with it.
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http://ygurvitz.net/?p=72
 
Thanks so far. SAM: are your scored out words a dig at me? If so, I accept ;)
 
Red Devil said:
Thanks so far. SAM: are your scored out words a dig at me? If so, I accept ;)
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Nope not at all. When I aim them at you, there will be no doubt. Its just that as an Asian, I have to cross through the minefield of western antisemitism to express what are very obvious signs of neocolonialism to us battered post colonialists :bawl:

Hence I am very careful to use mostly, Israeli or Jewish POV even when there are equivalent Palestinian or non-Jewish ones available. Of course, now that such Jews have also been classified as Ahusal [better known as bigot or racist] or self haters, its very confusing to make your point about basic humanitarian rights being abrogated by the Israeli government. Like Yossi above, I have determined that on principle I shall just have to learn to live with it
 
I am of the opinion that we are all one family in a global village, sadly the neighbours do not get along.
 
Red Devil said:
Following on from another thread, in which I got totally confused (and wrong) I would like to know, in purely laymans terms, what is Zionism and how does it affect middle eastern politics and thinking?
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Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is primarily a nationalist or national liberation Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, has supported the self-determination of the Jewish people in a sovereign Jewish national homeland. Since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily to advocate on behalf of the Jewish state and address threats to its continued existence and security. In a less common usage, the term may also refer to non-political, Cultural Zionism, founded and represented most prominently by Ahad Ha'am; and political support for the State of Israel by non-Jews, as in Christian Zionism.

Zionism does not have a uniform ideology, but has evolved in a dialogue among a plethora of ideologies: General Zionism, Religious Zionism, Labor Zionism, Revisionist Zionism, Green Zionism, etc. However, the common denominator among all Zionists is the claim to Eretz Israel as the national homeland of the Jews and as the legitimate focus for the Jewish national self-determination (as shown, among others, by Gideon Shimoni).It is based on historical ties and religious traditions linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel.

More...
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...8YiwCw&usg=AFQjCNGGlGZJ-cQz4OTlQX2LHrJqnT9g3g
 
Red Devil said:
I am of the opinion that we are all one family in a global village, sadly the neighbours do not get along.
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Glad to meet you. I'm a world citizen myself with my corner of the world in Mumbai and I believe in a borderless world where all people are considered as human beings sharing the same planet
 
S.A.M. said:
Most other people can tell the difference between a nationality and race based nations.
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Most modern nations are defined in ethnic/racial terms. For example, pretty much all of Europe and the vast majority of Asia. Israel is no outlier in this sense - nothing about this would be particularly controversial if the nation in question hadn't been distributed all over the world over the previous centuries.
 
quadraphonics said:
Most modern nations are defined in ethnic/racial terms. For example, pretty much all of Europe and the vast majority of Asia. Israel is no outlier in this sense - nothing about this would be particularly controversial if the nation in question hadn't been distributed all over the world over the previous centuries.
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The "Jewish nation over the world" can be substituted by the Christian nation over the world or the Hindu nation over the world or by the Muslim nation over the world to understand why France, Mauritius and Indonesia is not the same as Israel. There are some people who think Jews should be held to a different standard, their mythology given more credo, but I fail to understand why they cannot be treated just like any other religion. Why can't Jews be civic members of society just like other religions? Why do they have to be a nation requiring a homeland even when it means evicting the natives of the place they have determined is their religious homeland? And if the latter, what is the position of Jews outside this homeland? Are they still a nation that has been distributed over the world?
 
S.A.M. said:
The "Jewish nation over the world" can be substituted by the Christian nation over the world or the Hindu nation over the world or by the Muslim nation over the world to understand why France, Mauritius and Indonesia is not the same as Israel. There are some people who think Jews should be held to a different standard, their mythology given more credo, but I fail to understand why they cannot be treated just like any other religion. Why can't Jews be civic members of society just like other religions? Why do they have to be a nation requiring a homeland even when it means evicting the natives of the place they have determined is their religious homeland? And if the latter, what is the position of Jews outside this homeland? Are they still a nation that has been distributed over the world?
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Sorry SAM. Hinduism has no doctrine of establishing a Hindu nation on the world. If you can can quote a scripture I will examine it. If needed I SHALL distance myself from it. But such a doctrine is clearly there in the three desert religions.
 
Gut qvestions!

S.A.M. said:
There are some people who think Jews should be held to a different standard, their mythology given more credo, but I fail to understand why they cannot be treated just like any other religion.
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There are people all over the world who think the same of Muslims, among other religions. What's your point here?

Why can't Jews be civic members of society just like other religions?
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Excuse me? Define in which cases this has not been so, in context.

Why do they have to be a nation requiring a homeland even when it means evicting the natives of the place they have determined is their religious homeland?
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This is also true of other nations. How is this a specifically 'Jewish' (not Israeli) condition, Oberst?
 
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