Your War on Drugs

[Fraggle Rocker]

Yes indeed. Alcohol, tobacco, and (arguably but it's on my list) caffeine are the most dangerous drugs in terms of health risks, addictivity, and/or aberrant behavior, or just plain lives ruined. Bad reactions to correctly prescribed legal drugs cause more deaths and hospitalizations than all illicit drugs combined. If you want to talk about erroneous prescriptions or about the abuse of legal drugs, the stats are astronomical.

In all of human history no one has ever died from using marijuana. Deaths from other illegal drugs are never reported accurately: no coroner or other authority has ever stepped forward to refute the well-supported contention that the vast majority of people who die after using heroin, coke, LSD, etc., also have really high blood alcohol levels. It's the combination of effects that kills them, more than any one drug.

 

[Baron Max]

Ahh, but thankfully YOUR list and YOUR information are not the ones that we use in the USA.

Baron Max

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Ahh, but thankfully YOUR list and YOUR information are not the ones that we use in the USA.

Thankfully? What the hell is there to be thankful for? The War on Drugs is ruining our society just the way Prohibition did in my parents' day. The way black markets always do. The way governments always do when they get too big for their britches and think we elected them because we want nannies. I hope you were just being sarcastic.

 

[DarkThorn]

I am beginning to wonder - is Baron Max - George Bush?? :bugeye:

 

[MetaKron]

No, George Bush isn't that coherent.

 

[MetaKron]

Thankfully? What the hell is there to be thankful for? The War on Drugs is ruining our society just the way Prohibition did in my parents' day. The way black markets always do. The way governments always do when they get too big for their britches and think we elected them because we want nannies. I hope you were just being sarcastic.

Yeah, the War on Some Drugs is like saying that "We will stop beating ourselves and everyone else bloody when these few losers stop doing what we don't like."

 

[duendy]

here in te UK we have a really serious problem of young people drinking alcohol. Seriously, in our cities any weekend you see groups of young poeple fallin over, fighting--and tis includes females more and more--, vomiting, pissing, faling into te road, lying uncpnscious on the street, etcetc. it is a major problem, and unlikesome other Eurpopean countries where young people seem to be more mature and ca handle alcohol, we seem not to be able tp. some pople teproblem goes much deeper

on top of this is the alcohl industry which promotes free alcohol --like on te continent, and also makes it taste like fruit, so itis easier to ge toally drunk quickly without realizing it

we alao have minors drining in groups, as young as 10

so whathas te government just done??????

whyyyy it has increased licensing hours to a potential 24 hour period...is what!!.....

now can you see te intelligence of tis move? they believe that by increasingopening hours this will somhow stop binge drinkin

they are a fukin ship of fools is what they are. on te gin temselves no doubt

but tis shows te utter farce, surreal ukin comedy of where we are at. at te mercy of dickhaeds managing our lives, communities....get me

tese same pople tel us that cannabis is wrong, evil etc, whilst pushing the liquid drug, lcohol dwn everyones throat and at te same time mkin a hefty packet outta it. cause you ca bet where te money's going

these same silly fukers have made it a life sentence offense to have fresh magic mushrooms
and persecute people who need cannabis for major chronic pain.

as you kno, alcohol is a poison. te activ ingredient , behind all te schmalzy colour andpackagin i a colorless liquid/alcohol. and tis stuff can insidiously waste yer liver WITHOUT any signs till its too late....etc. yet despite that te fukers in power hypocritially preach to us ADULTS what we ca and cannot put into our bodies, an we put up wit teir bullcrap. why aren't we all fiercly protesting these usless managers??

 

[shaman_]

I nearly agree with duendy.

I see the people running the cigarette companies as some of the most evil people in the world. I see little difference between the cigarette companies and someone dealing heroin on a street corner.

I have a little more tolerance for alcohol as it has some social benefits but more needs to be done to prevent under-age drinking.

 

[duendy]

I nearly agree with duendy.

me))))))knew i'd hook ya eventually (smiiiiiile)

I see the people running the cigarette companies as some of the most evil people in the world. I see little difference between the cigarette companies and someone dealing heroin on a street corner.

me))))))ahhh, we disagree agin. i am notin favour of tis sae administrations--yip, te samesilly fkers screwin everything else up--demonization of cigarettes. what this does is actually increase their 'forbidden fruit' status. ie., te people that hate authroity, like kids etc wil be even more drawn to ciggies due to the increasing prohibition of them.....that's one'
two is, tat te reason for tobacco abuse in te first place was owing to te tobacco plant being patented by te cigarette companies (maybe you mean this, i am not clear) and teir adverttizing. for example, its not usually realized that there exist different strains of tobacco, the one fobidden--of bleedin course--being one that is slightly hallucinogenic. nNative Americans , and South American are more familiar with it. and for them there is not the same abuse of tobacco as which was manipulated here. whee here itbcomes a mindless habit fueled by a frantic clock-driven rat race. where stresssed people feel te need for old nocotine

banning any drugs is not the way as te Prohibition years in America o alcohol dramatically showed. but te powers dont give A shit. if you care to checkout Dan Russell's book Drug War, you will grok te utter corruption behind this phony war on drugs. covertly the powers use this 'war' so as to reap much money for corporate ways, and te general funding of te military industrial complex!!

so what the fluk do you do wit THAT?

any...... ideas...?

I have a little more tolerance for alcohol as it has some social benefits but more needs to be done to prevent under-age drinking.

yes, but as i said, LEGAL age drinking is cusing terrible problems , in the UK anyway. where are you?

 

[shaman_]

me))))))ahhh, we disagree agin. i am notin favour of tis sae administrations--yip, te samesilly fkers screwin everything else up--demonization of cigarettes. what this does is actually increase their 'forbidden fruit' status. ie., te people that hate authroity, like kids etc wil be even more drawn to ciggies due to the increasing prohibition of them.....that's one'two is, tat te reason for tobacco abuse in te first place was owing to te tobacco plant being patented by te cigarette companies (maybe you mean this, i am not clear) and teir adverttizing. for example, its not usually realized that there exist different strains of tobacco, the one fobidden--of bleedin course--being one that is slightly hallucinogenic. nNative Americans , and South American are more familiar with it. and for them there is not the same abuse of tobacco as which was manipulated here. whee here itbcomes a mindless habit fueled by a frantic clock-driven rat race. where stresssed people feel te need for old nocotine

Yes I see your points. I was really just saying that it is wrong that the people running cigarette companies are rich enough to be upper cluss of society but the addict selling heroin to keep the habit going is treated like trash and a criminal. I don't see the big difference in what they doing. The cigarette companies are just in it for the money and have lied regarding the dangerous effects of their product which they happily market to kids. The addict should be treated like someone with a serious (and dangerous) illness, not just a criminal.

I agree that the laws regarding marijuana are over the top.

banning any drugs is not the way as te Prohibition years in America o alcohol dramatically showed. but te powers dont give A shit. if you care to checkout Dan Russell's book Drug War, you will grok te utter corruption behind this phony war on drugs. covertly the powers use this 'war' so as to reap much money for corporate ways, and te general funding of te military industrial complex!!

I agree with what you say regarding prohibtion for some drugs. I think there are some that are too dangerous to ever be made legal.
I have a little knowledge on the hypocritical war on drugs but do not know that book.

I don't know much about cigarettes (just that I hate them) , do they add nicotine to the cigarette to make them more addictive?

yes, but as i said, LEGAL age drinking is cusing terrible problems , in the UK anyway. where are you?

Here in Australia drinking is part of the culture. Yeah it causes problems.


The media are certainly part of the problem. Not all newpapers/news services, just some.

Each year in Australia we have approx 20 000 smoking related deaths, 5 000 alcohol related deaths and 0 ectsacy and 0 marijuana related deaths. Yet the front page articles seem to be about the dangers of marijuana and ecstacy. They are often incorrect too. In fact the media here seem to treat ecstacy with more fear than speed or heroin. I am not condoning these drugs but it all seems mixed up to me. Fear sells papers i guess.

The public eats up the propaganda and the politicians suck to up the public so nothing will change soon.

 

[Baron Max]

I think there are some that are too dangerous to ever be made legal.

Yes, I agree. And thus is the thinking of our duly elected government officials in the USA ...they, too, determined that some drugs should never be legal. And thus we have the set our laws accordingly.

The public eats up the propaganda and the politicians suck to up the public so nothing will change soon.

Hmm, I think in a democratic state, the politicians are SUPPOSED TO suck up to the public! Surely you couldn't want it the other way around???

Baron Max

 

[shaman_]

Hmm, I think in a democratic state, the politicians are SUPPOSED TO suck up to the public! Surely you couldn't want it the other way around???

No

I just meant that if the majority of the public still fear marijuana then no laws are going to be changed.

 

[Baron Max]

I just meant that if the majority of the public still fear marijuana then no laws are going to be changed.

That's true. But y'all can still bitch n' moan if you want .....our ideals of freedom of speech allow that, unlike addictive drug use!

Baron Max

 

[duendy]

Yes I see your points. I was really just saying that it is wrong that the people running cigarette companies are rich enough to be upper cluss of society but the addict selling heroin to keep the habit going is treated like trash and a criminal. I don't see the big difference in what they doing. The cigarette companies are just in it for the money and have lied regarding the dangerous effects of their product which they happily market to kids. The addict should be treated like someone with a serious (and dangerous) illness, not just a criminal.

me))))i understand what you say. buti dont feel that hard drug users are'ill'....I dont agree with the State coercive 'treatment' programms for heroin users etc. i feel that tat is part of the very same oppressive mindset causing all the mess. There is also plans to 'vaccinate' people so that their chosen drugs would have no effect. if tis doesn't reveal the sham of reductive scientific outlook, what does??..........yes, we are aware that eexample, heroin is physically addictive. but te reasons pople take i are complex and involvesmore insight in understanding than just creating anothe drug to stamp out the need. typical of materialstic scince is that!............one of THE mostintelligent insghtful documentaries i've ever seen about heroin use was on BBC Tv a while ago. where it was shown that the real problem is NOT actual USE of heroin, but it having to be bought from the street, which means that for many they not onl have to commit crime to get money to pay fro their HABIT, but also most of te street heoin is mixed with all forms of rubbish which causes horrendous physiological damage....Hence what we need is tis nanny crap shit of adults tellin oter adults what they can put in teir body. Heroin should be available for those who want it in oter words, but also uncensored information and realistic ways to get help IF te user wants help.

I agree that the laws regarding marijuana are over the top.

me)))))))If any prohibition shows up the corruption of 'government' it is te law against te cnnabis plant. law against Nature itself. andits persecution of even pople who are seriously ill and only relief they get is taken UN-patentedcannabis. NOTE...how some te only way it ISbeing acceptd in certain locations is if te cannabis has been patented and made into pills!


I agree with what you say regarding prohibtion for some drugs. I think there are some that are too dangerous to ever be made legal.

me)))))))which and why

I have a little knowledge on the hypocritical war on drugs but do not know that book.

I don't know much about cigarettes (just that I hate them) , do they add nicotine to the cigarette to make them more addictive?

me)))))))not sure. i DO know they add a chemical that was used in nazism, thatnwasused to gas concentration camp victims!!

Here in Australia drinking is part of the culture. Yeah it causes problems.


The media are certainly part of the problem. Not all newpapers/news services, just some.

Each year in Australia we have approx 20 000 smoking related deaths, 5 000 alcohol related deaths and 0 ectsacy and 0 marijuana related deaths. Yet the front page articles seem to be about the dangers of marijuana and ecstacy. They are often incorrect too. In fact the media here seem to treat ecstacy with more fear than speed or heroin. I am not condoning these drugs but it all seems mixed up to me. Fear sells papers i guess.

me))))but also never forget who te OWNERS of Big Media ARE!...its these who propigate the myth of our times

The public eats up the propaganda and the politicians suck to up the public so nothing will change soon.

yes it can right now. by seeing tru it...explorin seeingthru it. cause if yo aint yo aint

 

[shaman_]

me))))i understand what you say. buti dont feel that hard drug users are'ill'.

They are not 'ill' as such but I feel that they shouldn't be treated as simple criminals. It should not be forgotten why they commit crimes.

...I dont agree with the State coercive 'treatment' programms for heroin users etc. i feel that tat is part of the very same oppressive mindset causing all the mess. There is also plans to 'vaccinate' people so that their chosen drugs would have no effect. if tis doesn't reveal the sham of reductive scientific outlook, what does??..........yes, we are aware that eexample, heroin is physically addictive. but te reasons pople take i are complex and involvesmore insight in understanding than just creating anothe drug to stamp out the need. typical of materialstic scince is that!............

I think you are correct that it isn't just a physical addiction. Use of drugs such as methadone only assist those who want to quit.

one of THE mostintelligent insghtful documentaries i've ever seen about heroin use was on BBC Tv a while ago. where it was shown that the real problem is NOT actual USE of heroin, but it having to be bought from the street, which means that for many they not onl have to commit crime to get money to pay fro their HABIT, but also most of te street heoin is mixed with all forms of rubbish which causes horrendous physiological damage....Hence what we need is tis nanny crap shit of adults tellin oter adults what they can put in teir body. Heroin should be available for those who want it in oter words, but also uncensored information and realistic ways to get help IF te user wants help.

I have heard that if clean heroin was supplied, an addict could live a relatively normal life.

me)))))))which and why

Well to begin with the highly addictive ones.

I guess one of the points I have been meandering towards is that these drugs are all different and should be handled differently. Those in power are not classing them very well at the moment. (Yes perhaps on purpose)

 

[duendy]

They are not 'ill' as such but I feel that they shouldn't be treated as simple criminals. It should not be forgotten why they commit crimes.

me))))))errm yes and know. they cant be excused from crime, but simultaneously there shoud be insights about why, and te availability of heroin for users, plus oter forms of well-meaning information. NOT State-sponsored crap

I think you are correct that it isn't just a physical addiction. Use of drugs such as methadone only assist those who want to quit.

me)))))i worked at a needle exchange and became close wit a good cross section of uses. they all hated methodone. claiming it was harder to come off than heroin!


I have heard that if clean heroin was supplied, an addict could live a relatively normal life.

me)))))yes, thats what was claimed on the documentary i mentioned


Well to begin with the highly addictive ones.

me)))))read a while back that a very very dangerous form of speed was being used by Native American youth in te reservations..........this is awful. tis speed is really highly addictice and can cause lotsof damage to nervous system. but we can see why tis happens cant we.....when peple have all te meaning for living tke away from tem what's fukin left but despair? bottom line

I guess one of the points I have been meandering towards is that these drugs are all different and should be handled differently. Those in power are not classing them very well at the moment. (Yes perhaps on purpose)

i do not in any way shape or form respect those in power couldn't give two shits what tey think to be honest. everything they touch turns crap. even when tey intend to SEEM to do 'good'!

butlike you said. it aint just them its the pnes who put tem in and vote via their apathy for this obscene evil war on drugs to continue......WE have to look at both from outside the box/coffin

 

[Baron Max]

I have heard that if clean heroin was supplied, an addict could live a relatively normal life.

Actually that's quite true ...BUT, it's ONLY when the dosage is controlled by someone else and NOT by the addict. I.e., heroin is not "harmful" in and of itself, it's the MIS-use of it that causes all of the problems. But how do we control the dosage of each addict in the world??

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

They are not 'ill' as such but I feel that they shouldn't be treated as simple criminals.

But they ARE simply criminals! A criminal is one who willfully and purposefully disobeys a law. When they use illegal drugs, they become criminals. Ain't no two ways about it.

It should not be forgotten why they commit crimes.

That's not the task of law enforcement or of the courts. That's a task for the doo-gooders and liberals of the world!

Baron Max

 

[shaman_]

Actually that's quite true ...BUT, it's ONLY when the dosage is controlled by someone else and NOT by the addict. I.e., heroin is not "harmful" in and of itself, it's the MIS-use of it that causes all of the problems. But how do we control the dosage of each addict in the world??

Baron Max

I really don't know. I am not necessarily in support of this I was just making a comment.

 

[shaman_]

But they ARE simply criminals! A criminal is one who willfully and purposefully disobeys a law. When they use illegal drugs, they become criminals. Ain't no two ways about it.



That's not the task of law enforcement or of the courts. That's a task for the doo-gooders and liberals of the world!

Baron Max

I am referring here to someone using the more addictive drugs. I assume crack is just as bad as heroin. ?

I am not saying that they are above the law and should not be punished. I am saying that the reason that they commit the crimes needs to be addressed. They need treatment and counselling.