Your reasons for being athiest or christian etc...?

When I accepted Jesus, it was with the realization and acceptance that I would never date this guy again. This was only a catalyst to accept Jesus, not because I was attracted to someone. My whole testimony is my journey towards God, and how my life changed afterwards.
 
Originally posted by Cris
Wes,

Of course in my simple example you are the ropes. I.e. you are the sum total of your neural networks.

Chris, where does logic 'physically' exist? It is pure abstract. So where does it exist? What about reason?

Where does magnetism exist? It is intangible isn't it?
 
Wes,

Chris, where does logic 'physically' exist? It is pure abstract. So where does it exist? What about reason?
These are all thoughts arising from the physical structures and networks in the brain.

If someone does not understand ‘logic’ I can communicate that information so they can generate their own neural patterns and then we can share the same thoughts.

Where does magnetism exist? It is intangible isn't it?
The electromagnetic force is one of the currently known four basic forces that help form the structure of the physical universe, along with gravity, weak nuclear, and strong nuclear. All these forces are very tangible, although we cannot directly perceive them with our limited senses.
 
Sweet thanks for all the replies they were all very interesting.

I'll just answer (as I do :p ) a couple of questions I was asked.

Stretched wrote to me: How did you test the truth of the Bible and the truth in Christians, so that you are entirely convinced that there are no lies?

In many many ways. Tested the truth of the Bible by reading it, by reading about it, by reading books against it, by reading books for it, and lastly by living it. I tested the truth of Christians by simply getting to know them, not just the happy happy face they for some strange reason portray to people around them.

Stretched also wrote: What is your definition of "New Age Beliefs"?

I could go upstairs and find about 20 definitions for you, but it's easier for the both of us if I just give you an example.

'Yes' wrote in this post: I believe that everything is energy and that everything has a consciousness. Not a human comsciousness, but a consciousness related to the particular existence. I don't rule out an existence of a God, or a higher/collective consciousness that holds all the other ones toghether. I don't have a name for my belief, but have come to this perception by meditating, thinking, feeling, investigating..well, living basically. It's the conclusion I can draw from my expereinces in this life as the form I am in.

That is pretty much spot on New Age belief. If you want to read a book on this and not be bored I recommend This Present Darkness By Frank Peretti, it's fiction but based on the belief held by New Agers and Christians, so it's both informative and enjoyable. If you want to be serious about investigating the belief, I recommend Ankerberg's books on the subject. I read one which only had a chapter on the subject of New Age, but I have seen an entire book of his devoted to the subject, very comprehensive, something like 600 pages, and new as well. lol I've read a book on the New Age which was 12 years old, the age wasn't quite new in that book :p And also Anderberg's books are very reasonably priced, I got mine on special for $5 - I think they made a mistake with the pricing but it's all good. But everywhere else I've seen them for around $20 which is still very good.

Hope that helped at least a little.

CyA's
 
Originally posted by answers
The beliefs I am against the most are the New Age beliefs, as they involve eastern mystecism which borders on all out witchcraft.

Pardon me for contradicting your statement, but it sounds to me like you are most against the beliefs of witchcraft, which is apparently the "true evil" with which the New Agers are merely flirting. At least, that's how your statement comes across to me - but please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Okay, this is how I see it. Witch craft is evil, you ask a little kid if witch craft is evil, they'll say yes, unless they are harry potter :p Now because Witch Craft is so obvously evil, many reject it. But it is when it is hidden in seemingly peaceful beliefs such as the New Age, that Witch Craft is truly a threat. That's why I hate the New Age the most.

Hope that makes sense. :D

CyA
 
Originally posted by answers
Okay, this is how I see it. Witch craft is evil, you ask a little kid if witch craft is evil, they'll say yes, unless they are harry potter :p Now because Witch Craft is so obvously evil, many reject it. But it is when it is hidden in seemingly peaceful beliefs such as the New Age, that Witch Craft is truly a threat. That's why I hate the New Age the most. Hope that makes sense. :D
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M*W: Actually, it doesn't make any sense, unless you may have lived during the burning times. The correct word is "wicca" which means "nature" or something to that affect. The ancients of Western Europe lived by, of, and for nature which provided them with everything they needed to survive: food, a source of income from their crops and meat from the animals they tended, and medicined from plants, etc. This was "wicca." Back in those days, I guess you could call them all "wiccans." Predominantly, however, they were women. They were gatherers of the food, cookers of the food, and makers of the medicines from plants. These folks lived peacefully with nature and their fellow man. Then with the emergence of patriarchal Christianity, these ancient naturalists were viewed by the patriarcharchal Christian dogma to be of the devil, and their name was slurred to become "witches," and they were charged as being devil worshippers. Unfortunately, most of those charged by Christianity were women, nine million of them! Midwives of the period were the most heinously tortured and murdered. Old women who birthed babies for their daughters and granddaughters were slaughtered for turning plants into medicines, for healing the people of their clans. There were seen as evil. There were more women slaughtered during the burning times than there were men, women and children, during the holocaust. Nine million women! New age? I think not! There is nothing new about Wicca. It's Age Old! And 37% of today's pharmaceuticals are still made from plants! Why don't Christians go after the pharmaceutical companies for practicing witchcraft? Witchcraft is a misnomer. It's a Christianized term based on patriarchal fear and hate. As a midwife and healer for the whole family, I am passionately opposed to Christianity for its evil deeds throughout history. Christianity, itself, is a New Age religion. It is by far much "newer" than Wicca! Before you attempt another post on something you are totally ignorant about, why don't you do some research instead of believing the lies Christianity has programmed into your pea brain?
 
First of all, 9 million is not even close to the slaughter of 50 Jews.

Then with the emergence of patriarchal Christianity, these ancient naturalists were viewed by the patriarcharchal Christian dogma to be of the devil, and their name was slurred to become "witches,
Wicca is an old english word for witch, which probably comes from the word wizzard.

Then with the emergence of patriarchal Christianity, these ancient naturalists were viewed by the patriarcharchal Christian dogma to be of the devil, and their name was slurred to become "witches," and they were charged as being devil worshippers.
Let's see, I suspect that greater percentage of the so-called witches were not witches but were people who belonged into a mental institution.

Christianity, itself, is a New Age religion.
Reminds me of that song, "bring me back some old time religion" or something like that.

It is by far much "newer" than Wicca! Before you attempt another post on something you are totally ignorant about, why don't you do some research instead of believing the lies Christianity has programmed into your pea brain?
Wicca isn't a religion persay but a collection varying polytheist religions. In that respect; yes, there were polytheists before christianity. Nevertheless, modern Wiccan's have deluded their religion often times combining the worship of christian angels, roman mythology, and celtic believes. No tradition or legacy of wiccan's can be found. It is just a bunch of people worshiping that which is not God. All to often this leads to true Satanism or black witchcraft.
 
Hey don't knock witches. Charmed is my favorite TV program and I like the illusion of witches being good. :)
 
Originally posted by okinrus
First of all, 9 million is not even close to the slaughter of 50 Jews.
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M*W: What are you trying to say?
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Wicca is an old english word for witch, which probably comes from the word wizzard.
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M*W: Look it up. I know for sure you are no linguist.
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Let's see, I suspect that greater percentage of the so-called witches were not witches but were people who belonged into a mental institution.
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M*W: These people lived off the land and cared for each other's survival in ancient times. There's nothing crazy about them. You, on the other hand...
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Reminds me of that song, "bring me back some old time religion" or something like that.
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M*W: Like I said, Wicca is not an "old time religion." It was a way of life pre-patriarchy.
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Wicca isn't a religion persay but a collection varying polytheist religions. In that respect; yes, there were polytheists before christianity. Nevertheless, modern Wiccan's have deluded their religion often times combining the worship of christian angels, roman mythology, and celtic believes. No tradition or legacy of wiccan's can be found. It is just a bunch of people worshiping that which is not God. All to often this leads to true Satanism or black witchcraft.
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M*W: You are describing "paganism" like that which was found in Greece and Rome. I'm talking WAY back before this. Wiccan's worshipped nature not various and sundry gods.

Tradition or legacy? I'll leave this answer to the Wiccans on the forum, but there is an oral tradition of their lifestyle, and it's written in books. I've seen them in the bookstore, I have just never read much about them.

Who are you or anyone else to say who are what God is to everyone else? This is your problem as a Christian. You limit God. God cannot be limited to fit into your simplistic concept of God.

Satanism and Black witchcraft is something entirely different than what I am talking about. That's like you comparing Jesus to the Antichrist.

okinrus, I know you're a young kid, and I don't want to bash you, but please, please learn to spell. You ridicule the content of your posts with your illiteracy. Instead of wasting your time on this forum, why don't you take an English class or get help with your spelling. It will serve you good when you have something worthwhile to say.
 
Re: Your reasons for being athiest or christian etc...?

I am neither an athiest or a christian. I don't believe in the all mighty christian God, the God who is benevalent and forgiving.

I do believe that there is something greater out there or some greater power (and no I don't mean Microsoft). Having been brought up in a family which is and has always been Catholic, I always rebelled against the teachings and doctrines of the church. Not because I was a rebellious teenager but because they never made sense. I was the small child who would tell the nun in religious studies that the story of Adam and Eve did not make sense and that there had to be a better explanation (this was prior to my understanding the theory of evolution) and 'how can someone part the ocean? did the fish fall out? how can a tree talk? if there was only adam and eve, where did the rest of the people come from? how could adam and eve have had that many children?' etc. That nun soon asked my parents to remove me from class for being disruptive and that I was not a good catholic because I questioned too much. I thank my parents for laughing at this and being understanding that I would never be a sheep. I regarded the biblical stories as just that, stories. What I do believe in however is that there is something out there who has let nature take its course in the way that it has. I believe that something started what would then be the consequent set of the chain of events which have led to the civilisation (or lack of) that we have today.

I have never believed that if you repent then you are saved, regardless of what you have done in the past. I was never able to understand how the worst criminal would go to heaven, regardless for what they had done, if they repented. I believe that if you treat people as you wish to be treated, with respect (of others and of their individual beliefs) and understanding and don't hate as much and without thinking you're better than others, then you can be rewarded... in life and possibly in death. As for the notion of eternal bliss and heaven after death. I don't think anyone alive has the ability to say with certainty what happens after the last curtain call. Do I believe I will be judged after death? Yes I do, by the people I have left behind and also by something or someone greater than I. Christianity allows the individual to follow their religious teachings and doctrines, even if it is to the detriment of others. I could never allow myself to do anything to further myself if I knew that it was hurting another individual in any way. And it enforces this through teachings of eternal damnation and hell. On the one had it teaches that one must show compassion but on the other it shows how it treats people who are homosexual, have had sex before marriage, have had children out of wedlock, etc. There is an undercurrent of hypocrisy in Christianity that repels me, and unfortunately this is not confined to just christianity. I believe that one will be judged on how one treats his/her fellow man/woman, and the church does not always follow this doctrine, instead it has been known to turn a blind eye to people in pain and need, or itself be judgemental to people for not following the rules. No one is in a position to morally judge others for the way they wish to live their lives.


:eek:
 
I believe that if you treat people as you wish to be treated, with respect (of others and of their individual beliefs) and understanding and don't hate as much and without thinking you're better than others

I would just like to add that I do have a tendency to snap at people for this:(


:eek:
 
M*W: Look it up. I know for sure you are no linguist.
I did look it up and that is what Webster says.

These people lived off the land and cared for each other's survival in ancient times. There's nothing crazy about them. You, on the other hand...
Yes, m*w I already know that I'm crazy. I did not mean that in a degoratory fashion. Just that what we now would call outsiders might have been considered witches.

M*W: You are describing "paganism" like that which was found in Greece and Rome. I'm talking WAY back before this. Wiccan's worshipped nature not various and sundry gods.
You have no evidence of this. On the contrary, the only early monotheists on record are the Jews and Atekenaton. Either wiccans worship one God and are monotheist or they are polytheists or atheists.

Tradition or legacy? I'll leave this answer to the Wiccans on the forum, but there is an oral tradition of their lifestyle, and it's written in books. I've seen them in the bookstore, I have just never read much about them.atheist or polytheist.
We expect more evidence than "seen them at a book store".

okinrus, I know you're a young kid, and I don't want to bash you, but please, please learn to spell. You ridicule the content of your posts with your illiteracy. Instead of wasting your time on this forum, why don't you take an English class or get help with your spelling. It will serve you good when you have something worthwhile to say.
There called typos? Often times I type fast without proofreading what I say. But while my spelling is not that good, be sure I can spell belief right.
 
Originally posted by answers
Okay, this is how I see it. Witch craft is evil, you ask a little kid if witch craft is evil, they'll say yes, unless they are harry potter

At least the mystery of where you've been getting your information has finally been cleared up. Thanks. :rolleyes:

The learned opinions of brainwashed Christian children aside, why do you think witchcraft is evil?

Now because Witch Craft is so obvously evil, many reject it. But it is when it is hidden in seemingly peaceful beliefs such as the New Age, that Witch Craft is truly a threat. That's why I hate the New Age the most.

Hope that makes sense.

CyA

As MW already pointed out, no - this doesn't make any sense. First of all, you've failed to prove that witchcraft is evil. You don't even seem to understand your own aversion to it and point to small children as your reference. Why don't you ask them what they think about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the monster hiding in their closet while you're at it? :rolleyes:

So just what is it about natural methods of healing and pain relief, or even nature worship or honoring the Feminine Divine that frightens you so much? Maybe you should read a bit more about witchcraft before you judge it so harshly. If you want to learn more, there are some great books on the subject, but in my opinion, the best introduction to the basics of witchcraft is "Positive Magic: Occult Self-Help," by Marion Weinstein.

There are also websites galore that can help you in this regard, but here are a couple of articles from two of my personal favorites:

Witchcraft FAQ

The Wiccan Rede

Once you actually have some idea of what you're talking about, please let me know whether or not you still feel witchcraft is evil and why.
 
'how can someone part the ocean?
It is mistranslation. The hebrew word is for "reed" and not "red".

I have never believed that if you repent then you are saved, regardless of what you have done in the past. I was never able to understand how the worst criminal would go to heaven, regardless for what they had done, if they repented.
Because the worst criminal cannot truely repent. He has blaphemed the holy Spirit and he has no guide to lead him to repentance.

On the one had it teaches that one must show compassion but on the other it shows how it treats people who are homosexual, have had sex before marriage, have had children out of wedlock, etc. There is an undercurrent of hypocrisy in Christianity that repels me, and unfortunately this is not confined to just christianity.
Yes, but Jesus practically said everything that could be possibly say about hypocrisy. It's not a part of christiantiy but a part of man's sinful nature.

No one is in a position to morally judge others for the way they wish to live their lives.
This is christian doctrin, Jesus said not to judge, but few follow it. We are certainly allowed to judge what actions are wrong, correct?
 
The beliefs I am against the most are the New Age beliefs, as they involve eastern mystecism which borders on all out witchcraft.

Eastern philosophy has nothing to do with witchcraft. Why would you say that? Taoism and Buddhism are noble and enlightened teachings, thousand of years older than jesus, that spread peace and understanding. How many innocent, sick or mentally ill people were wrongly tortured and burned alive in the name of christianity?
 
Originally posted by MShark
I am annoyed by Atheists who claim logic is on their side when it is obvious that there are no known truths and all reasoning is based on faith
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by answers
[. Please don't cheat and just write, I'm athiest because everything else is wrong.
but its true!:D
I'm a Christian, because I've tested the truth of the Bible, and the truth in Christians, and found it not to be lies.
it would be funny if it wasnt so sad,
tell me this if prayer works why do we need doctors,hospitals and modern medicine?
if god is all knowing,why pray to him at all,he would know all your thoughts and wishes,wouldnt he?
bible is a book writen by humans,very primitive ones at that,who at that time didnt have a clue what makes the world turn so they invented some imaginary skydady,how can anyone believe those fairy tales in these modern times is beyond my understanding.
its so full of contradictions its obvious you never read all of it.
explain these if you would www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
 
tell me this if prayer works why do we need doctors,hospitals and modern medicine?
if god is all knowing,why pray to him at all,he would know all your thoughts and wishes,wouldnt he?

this person in the medical field who also happens to be born again knows that God heals just as readily through our modern medicine as He does without it. You could just as easily say why bother working since God can give us what we need. But this isnt about God giving us everything like pampered spoiled children, it is abotu us learning how to connect with God. This is also why we need prayer. He already knows our needs and our prayers, but through prayer we come closer to God and are able to hear His desires in our lives.


As far as that skeptics bible, too funny, clearly these are taken out of context with twisted meanings. Chose things in there and I will undertake in my limited time to explain to you. I just dont have the time to tackle every part of it at the moment.
 
Okay, I think I musn't have written correctly regarding my reference to witch craft. I have only read about New Age, not Witch craft. The only knowledge I have about witch craft is from witches that I knew at school. One was talking to me about being a witch after she stopped being one. She said that she used to do spells and everything, until she started hearing voices in her head, and then she quite because she was freaked out. Since then the voices have stopped. Another witch I didn't know personally, I knew of her through my pretty much best friend for five years all through high school. He told me nothing much happened with her witch craft, except that one time when she was offering up a hate letter to the fairies (lol she was pretty funny apparantly) the corner of the letter caught on fire. My view of witch craft or whatever I have just descibed, is that they contact and use the power of demons. I say that this is similar to New Age, because they do channeling, I believe the power channeled comes from demons. My friend I mentioned just before, used to be into all that spiritualist stuff. He used to see peoples auras and be able to interpret them (just people walking down the street etc) he could see gosts etc... Not going to go into detail as most of you people don't know the guy like I do, and probably would just think his insane. But anyway, I guess I'm just judging witch craft from the people I know who have called themselves witches, were they lying to me? Were they something different?

Anyway CyA's
 
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