selfeducated1
Registered Senior Member
peace b with you my friendXerxes said:
you wanna be a genius?
- Thread starter selfeducated1
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selfeducated1 said:
Depends on what IQ tests you take. There are Internet tests that say I'm a genius too. Which have you taken? Seriously?
selfeducated1 said:
There is no single genius "gene". Most likely, its a multiply determined (i.e. polygenetic) "range". Now given that, if you have been doing something that moves you into your upper range, great. But can a gentically retarded individual achieve these results? No, they are limited in their potential.
selfeducated1 said:but the more nuero conections you have harmonizing the two hemispheres the more opportunity your brain would have to find something that corrilates with whatever your learning. thus maybe you'll be lacking this so called genetic state of genius, but you still have the ability to increase your intelligence. and after all thats what its all about right, the gaining of knowledge. :m:
Actually, you have the most brain cells early in development, and through experience, cells that are not needed are "pruned" as you get older. Its called effeciency. Second, you have hit on another misunderstaing on your part. That of "knowledge" equating to "intelligence". That is simply one half of the story. We call that crystallized intelligence, and the other half fluid intelligence. This fluid intelligence is more ill-defined, but is described as the ability to piece together pattern, or natural logical thought...I am seriously lacking the words to describe it right now. Thats why there are tests like Raven's Matrices.
I have known many individuals "who know a lot about one thing" and are still dumb as a box of rocks.
selfeducated1
Registered Senior Member
TwoCents said:Depends on what IQ tests you take. There are Internet tests that say I'm a genius too. Which have you taken? Seriously?well honestly, i have only taken the tests you were talking about, i really dont remember the sites. but, i think, maybe your misunderstanding the meaning i am associating with genius. for, i dont think that there is a particullar measurement that would decide when you reach the status of genius. rather, i would use it in the way as to describe a state where your brain activity was increased to a state of whole brain functioning, that is shared by many people, that were considered by most to be geniuses(A.E. and others too, they mentioned, but i dont feel like looking up who they were)
that is, of course, not the dictionaries definition. but reasonably it would make sense to use the word in that conotation. i really didnt take those tests, to have the ability, to claim genius status, it was merely curiosity of the level of knowledge i had(like i mentioned earlier i only completed the eighth grade, not of my own will though) i really dont worry about titles imposed on myself, by anyone, accept me.
also, when i took my g.e.d, i was 14, and at that time, they would let you take the tests, but, cause of the age, classes were not made available, and, no material to study. i passed with a score that was 87% higher then the average score of high school graduates that took the test.
and if your interested, i also was thinking of joining the army a couple of years ago(thankfully i came to my senses. no offense to anyone, i just am not the type that would have been successfull in the enviroment expierienced in the army, to be a credit to the forces. i'm to freewilled. and thats why i appreciate the armed forces of the U.S.A, so i can enjoy the possibility of freewill, even if thats not always what they're fighting for!)
they asked me if i cheated some how, they didnt see how i could get a score that would automatically give me the option of an officers status, thats what he said, i really dont quite understand how their system works. but since i only had my g.e.d, that wasnt an option, i only qualified for the jobs available to those who had their g.e.d.
so i guess, if i was looking for evidence, to validate my claims to a degree of genius, those two scenario's would probably be a little more credible, then the internet tests that i took. only that, the other two tests, did'nt have an IQ rating.
TwoCents said:There is no single genius "gene". Most likely, its a multiply determined (i.e. polygenetic) "range". Now given that, if you have been doing something that moves you into your upper range, great. But can a gentically retarded individual achieve these results? No, they are limited in their potential.
actually, yes, genetically retarded persons often do have areas of genius.
for example, autistic ones usually have flawless memories. in fact, dustin hoffman researched one such person for his character in rain man. another was a man who was impaired(retarded) to the point he could never care for himself, but, he would only be shown a piece of music once, and would never forget how to play it. his conglomeration of learned pieces, numbered over 7,000. i would say they are geniuses in their areas of expertise. and in other ways they are beyond, just being "dumb as a box of rocks", they are genetically flawed
well, i was'nt claiming that the holosync tech. would increase your brain cells. increasing the cells wouldnt really be the answer to increasing the efficiency at wich your brain transports information through your whole brain. also the increasing in cells would increase the size of the brain, and the size of modern humans brains are pretty much as large as they can get, without damaging the brain, while a new born passes through the vaginal canal.(unless c-sections were routinely performed)and like i just said larger brains or more cells isnt the answer anyhow, and as youll see, the optomizing of our brains system of operation, is.TwoCents said:
by using the method i discussed earlier,in the first post of the thread, according to F. holmes atwater of the monroe institute. "your able to create an amplitude modulated standing wave (the binaural beat). wich are generated, one in each hemisphere's olvilary nucleus. the binaural beats will entrain both hemispheres to the same frequency, establishing equivalant electromagnetic enviroments and maximizing interhemispheric neural communication".
"one of the observed effects of this type of sound-induced brain syncronization is increased learning ability".
speech-language pathologist, Suzanne Evans Morris, Ph.D., describes the relationship between different brainwave patterns and learning, as well as other related states.
"receptivity for learning is related to specific states of consciousness. predominant brainwave patterns are associated to specific states of consciousness or awareness". she then goes on to state the frequencies involved in each brainwave pattern, and the collaberating states of each brainwave pattern. you can see those in the first post of the thread.
as many of you probablly already know, that in order for memories to form, the brain must undergo a state called long term potentiation(LTP), involving electrical and chemical changes in the neurons associated with memory. neurophysiologist Dr. Gary Lynch and associates at the U. of Calif. at Irvine discovered the key to LTP is the theta brain wave pattern.
youll notice if you look at the first post, it talks about theta being connected to increased memory, as well as all the associated states of each of the brainwave patterns. the neurochemicals beta-endorphins, acetycholine, vasopressin, and serotonin, are thought to be the cause of each of the states involved in the corrosponding bwp.
"Dr. Margaret Patterson, in collaberation with biochemist Dr. Ifor Capel, at the Marie Curie Cancer Memorial Foundation Research Department, in Surrey England, has shown that certain frequencies in the brain dramatically speed up a production of a variety of neurotransmitters, different frequencies triggering different brain chemicals. f.e. 10Hz (alpha) bwp boost the production and turnover rate of serotonin, a chemical messenger that increases relaxation and eases pain, while at around 4 Hz (theta) catecholamines, vital for memory and learning, are shown to respond.
they go on to discuss the other chemicals relations to the other states discussed. then they continue discussing the role endorphins play, that are realeased when the brain is exposed to the different brain wave binaural beat patterns.
although not connected to the discussion on intelligence, one study i found intrigueing, was performed by Dr Vincent Giampapa, M.D., former president of the American Board of Anti-Aging Medicine, it revealed that by placing a listener in the alpha, theta, and delta bwp using holosync dramatically affects the production of cortisol, DHEA, and melatonin.
Dr. Giampapa found the following changes in levels of melatonin, DHEA, and cortisol in 19 users of holosync listening for four hours a day over a 3 day period:
as for the effects of slowing the bwp, that acctually would effect the performance of the brain. "slowing of bwp, increases electrical fluctuations in the brain, changing the neural structure and pushing the brain to reorganize at a higher, more complex level of functioning. this reorganazation process is predicted by the work of scientist Ilya Prigongine, 1977 Nobel Prize-winner in chemistry.
- over 68% had increases in DHEA levels, with an average increase of 43.77%. several participants had increases of 50, 60, even 90%
- cortisol was down an average of 46.47%, with postive changes in 68% of the people, and with several participants having decreases of 70, or 80%
- melatonin levels increased an average of 97.77%, with possitive changes happening in over 73% ot the participants. many had improvements of 100, 200, even 300%
Prignongine's work has been applied to all kinds of changes in open systems... from a seed germinating, to a corporation expanding, a highway system growing, a cell dividing, or a human expieriencing behavioral or emotional changes.
the human brain is the ulitamate open system, constantly exchanging energy with its enviroment. up to a point, the system can handle all kinds of fluctuations. but if the input becomes to much , the system is pushed past its limits and the system reorganizes itself at a higher order. like a runner, gives more physical input to his body than it can handle, so it will respond by reorganizing itself at a level that can handle the increased input.
using the binaural beat technology to change the bwp causes a similar effect in the brain. the alpha theta delta wave patterns are states of great fluctuation in the brain. a graphic representation of these brain wave patterns shows that the amplitude (the height of the waveform) increases as we move from alpha to theta to delta. these increased fluctuations are more than the nervous system can handle with its current structure, and the brain responds by reorganizing itself at a higher, more complex level of functioning.
it does this by creating new neural pathways within itself, creating increased communication between parts of the brain that were not previously communicating. this is the balance or synchrony, between the two hemispheres of the brain". Lester Fehmi, of the Princeton Biofeedback Research Institute, stated that, "synchrony represents the maximum efficiency of information transport through the whole brain".
there are two main effects of reorganization and increased synchrony in the brain: one, is an increase in various mental capabilities: increased learning ability, creativity, mental clarity, INTELLIGENCE, intuition, and so on. second, each time the neural structure changes, positive changes in mental and emotional health occur. with the creation of new neural pathways, connections are percieved between bits of information that previously seemed unrelated, and more choices are available. :m:
Wow, if I was not tired as hell, I would rad all of that in detail, but you mostly seem to be presenting biological changes...however,
"there are two main effects of reorganization and increased synchrony in the brain: one, is an increase in various mental capabilities: increased learning ability, creativity, mental clarity, INTELLIGENCE, intuition, and so on. second, each time the neural structure changes, positive changes in mental and emotional health occur. with the creation of new neural pathways, connections are percieved between bits of information that previously seemed unrelated, and more choices are available"
You have not shown me any evidence all those changes translate into these assertions.
SHOW ME SOME EVIDENCE!
"there are two main effects of reorganization and increased synchrony in the brain: one, is an increase in various mental capabilities: increased learning ability, creativity, mental clarity, INTELLIGENCE, intuition, and so on. second, each time the neural structure changes, positive changes in mental and emotional health occur. with the creation of new neural pathways, connections are percieved between bits of information that previously seemed unrelated, and more choices are available"
You have not shown me any evidence all those changes translate into these assertions.
SHOW ME SOME EVIDENCE!
Isn't this evidence?
over 68% had increases in DHEA levels, with an average increase of 43.77%. several participants had increases of 50, 60, even 90%
cortisol was down an average of 46.47%, with postive changes in 68% of the people, and with several participants having decreases of 70, or 80%
melatonin levels increased an average of 97.77%, with positive changes happening in over 73% ot the participants. many had improvements of 100, 200, even 300%
over 68% had increases in DHEA levels, with an average increase of 43.77%. several participants had increases of 50, 60, even 90%
cortisol was down an average of 46.47%, with postive changes in 68% of the people, and with several participants having decreases of 70, or 80%
melatonin levels increased an average of 97.77%, with positive changes happening in over 73% ot the participants. many had improvements of 100, 200, even 300%
selfeducated1
Registered Senior Member
really the only evidence is basically the knowledge we have on how our brain works. i dont think you can acctually observe the new neuropathways forming, rather you use the cause and effect of things you can observe(bwp, neurochemicals, electricall activity in the brain) then when you see the results of say, production of the neurochemical vasopressin, when the brain is put in the state of theta, you would assume that since vasopressin is proven to boost memory, in turn the more often you can induce a state of theta, the more vasopressin, thus improved memory. thats just one example of one benefit. you can use that basic formula for all the benefits i described earlier.TwoCents said:
i do believe i have given enough technicall info for most people even skepticall ones, to at least give it a try, i mean what is there to loose at worst you get to spend an hour a day reflecting on what ever, at best you get to be as cool as me!!
but really i dont know if you want me to send you my brain, or what more proof i can give, then all the research and findings of experts in the field, stated previously. cause ultimatly the only solid proof youll ever get, that it works for you is by expierience. :m: selfeducated1 said:
Is it? How much do I have to assume? How GOOD is the research on vassopressin? Are there any studies that show NO relation? Do we know the direction of effects are statistically significant? Are we relying on the results of one study? or two? Is this an established literature?
HOW LONG DO THE EFFECTS LAST?
WHAT TYPE OF MEMORY DOES VASSOPRESSIN AFFECT?
You are making some serious logical leaps here, that I believe are unwarranted, or at minimum unsubstantiated.
selfeducated1
Registered Senior Member
and what warrants your belief,i see no substancial evidence debunking my info.TwoCents said:
if you want to be devils advocate you probablly should at least look up something for your rebuttle.
- oster, gerald. auditory beats in the brain. scientific american, 1973
- morris, suzanne. the facilitation of learning. privately published manuscript, 1989
- hutchison, michael. megabrain. ballantine books. ny, 1986
- hastings, arthur. tests of the sleep induction technique. privately published manuscript, 1989
- schull, bill. conceptual discussion of work plan, monroe institute of applied sciences, faber, virginia, 1986
- atwater f. the monroe institute's hemi-sync process, a theoretical perspective. the monroe institute of applied sciences. 1988
- bylinski, gene. mood control. ny. scribner, 1978
- hutchison, michael. megabrain power. ny. hyperion, 1994
- fehmi, lester. f., and george fritz. open focus the attentionall foundation of health and well-being. somatics.
- edrington, devon. a pallative for wandering attention. unpublished manuscript, 1984
- brokopp, gene w. review of research on multi-modal sensory stimulation with clinical implication and research proposals.ms.1984
- budzynski, thomas. tuning in on the twilight zone. psychology today, aug. 1977
- budzynski, thomas. a brain latteralization model for rest. paper delivered at the first international conference on rest and self regulation, denver co march 18, 1983
- green, elmer and alyce. beyond biofeedback. ny, delacourt. 1977
- peneston, e.g., and p.j. kulkowski. alpha-theta brainwave training and beta-endorphin levels in alchoholics. alchoholism 13. 1989
- pines, maya. the brain changers. scientists and the new mind control. ny. harcourt brace jovanovich, 1973
- lynch, gary, and michael baundry. the biochemistry of memory. a new specific hypothesis. science 224 (1984): 1057-63
- mcauliffe, kathleen. brain tuner. omni, jan 1983
- harvey, ruth s. the miracle of electromedicine. national institute of electromedical information, inc. digest bulletin, winter, 1985
- starrc douglas. brain drugs. omni, feb 1983
- lester, henry a. the response to acetycholine. scientific american, feb 1977
- flood, j.f., g.i. smith, & a. cherkin. memory retention: potentiation of cholinergic drug combinations in mice. neurobiology of aging, vol. 4 #17, 1978
- sitarm, h., h. weingartner, j.c. gillin. choline: learning and encoking of low imagery words in man.life sciences, vol. 22, 1978, pp. 1555-1560
- sitaram, gillin. human serial learning: enhancement with arecholine and choline and impairment with scopolamine with performance on placebo. science, vol. 201, 1978
- koob, george f., floyd e. bloom. Behavior effects of neuropeptides: endorphins and vasopressin. annual review of physiology. 1982
- legros, et al. influences of vasopressin on memory and learning. lancet. jan 7, 1978
- davis joel. endorphins: new waves in brain chemistry. garden city, ny: dial press, 1984
- routtenberg, aryeh. the reward system of the brain. scientific american. nov 1978
- weintraub, pamela, ed. the omni interviews. ny. ticknor and fields, 1984
- stroebel, charles. f.q.r.: the quieting reflex. ny. putnam, 1982
- benson, herbert. the relaxation response. ny. morrow, 1975
- prigogine, ilya and isabelle stengers. order out of chaos: man's new dalogue with nature. ny. bantam, 1984
This isn't precisely indicative of increase in intelligence, but it supports an increase in whole-brain thinking:
http://www.centerpointe.com/product/Mind_Mirror.htm
http://www.centerpointe.com/product/Mind_Mirror.htm
selfeducated1
Registered Senior Member
actually i apologize, i forget not everybody has the same material in front of them that i do.TwoCents said:
the actuall point of the results shared there were to show the effect holosync had on hormones. as i stated the results already i wont repeat myself, rather i will just go into what those results meant.
first a little background on each of the hormones associated with the test.
cortisol: a hormone that is produced by the adrenal glands. according to Dr. Giampapa, cortisol is the major age-accelerating hormone within the brain. it also interferes with learning and memory and has, in general, negative effects on health and well being.
DHEA: is also produce by the adrenal glands. it is a precurser to virtually every hormone the body needs. the level of DHEA in the body is a key determining factor of physiological age and resistance to disease. when theyre low we're more susceptible to aging and disease; when they are high, the body is at its peak.
a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (dec 11, 1986) found that a 100 microgram per decileter in DHEA blood levels corresponded with a 48% reduction in mortality due to cardiovascular disease, and a 36% reduction in mortality for any reason.
melatonin: is a hormone associated with the restfull sleep. we make less of it as we age, and since during sleep many important rejuvenating substances are created in the brain while were sleeping, if your not getting restfull sleep it will most likely take a toll on your quality of life and your aging process.
now you could argue that the study on the effects holosync had on them were not pertanant to our discussion on intelligence,(other then cortisol is a interference on learning and memory, and to substancially lower it would likely compliment the increase in vasopressin for increasing memory.) but in my opinion, i would say your overall well being is something any intelligent person would be concernd with. but like i said that is my opinion, i dont have any proof for that. i will look up more info on the studies, on vasopressin. till then dont let your pickle drip :bugeye: :m:
selfeducated1
Registered Senior Member
http://www.nootropics.com/vasopressin/index.htmlselfeducated1 said:
i think youll find enough info here to keep you busy for a while. also if you want more info just type in vasopressin on your search engine, there is alot most of wich seemed to verify what i had already said. but i only glanced at them.
selfeducated1
Registered Senior Member
so what really do you need clarity on. i would guess, but i hate writing if its not what your really getting at.TwoCents said:
This is as close as I can come to 'intelligence.' But remember, IQ is a very selective measurement. Holosync claims to improve the brain in various ways, and the combinations of these improvements could result in increased intelligence, although they never explicitly make this claim, as far as I know.
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As we slow the brain waves from beta to alpha to theta to delta using Holosync, there is a corresponding increase in balance between the two hemispheres of the brain. This more balanced brain state is called brain synchrony, or brain synchronization.
As the brain waves slow and the brain balances, you more and more tap into what scientists call whole-brain thinking, or whole-brain functioning.
So just what is whole-brain thinking? It's using both sides of the brain to think, instead of using one side at a time, as we usually do. It gives you a kind of meta-awareness, a new perspective-a view from a higher spot on the mountain.
Whole- brain functioning is associated with increased creativity... insight... learning ability... problem solving ability... memory... and what some people call vision.
This type of brain function has been associated with geniuses-the Einsteins and Mozarts of the world.
As amazing as it may seem, we really do now have a method for tapping into this kind of whole brain, integrative, super-functioning, high-performance, creative thinking-a level of brain functioning.
Researcher Dr. Lester Fehmi has said that brain synchronization is correlated experientially with a union with experience, and 'into-it-ness.' Instead of feeling separate and narrow-focused you tend to feel more into it...There's a whole-brain sensory integration going on and it's as if you become less self-conscious and function more intuitively.
Synchronizing your brain can quite simply catapult you to much higher levels of effectiveness in your life. Neurologist Jerre Levy of the University of Chicago had this to say about brain synchronization and personal effectiveness:
Great men and women of history did not merely have superior intellectual capacities within each hemisphere [of the brain]. They had phenomenal levels of emotional commitments, motivation, attentional capacity - all of which reflected the highly integrated brain in action.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
As we slow the brain waves from beta to alpha to theta to delta using Holosync, there is a corresponding increase in balance between the two hemispheres of the brain. This more balanced brain state is called brain synchrony, or brain synchronization.
As the brain waves slow and the brain balances, you more and more tap into what scientists call whole-brain thinking, or whole-brain functioning.
So just what is whole-brain thinking? It's using both sides of the brain to think, instead of using one side at a time, as we usually do. It gives you a kind of meta-awareness, a new perspective-a view from a higher spot on the mountain.
Whole- brain functioning is associated with increased creativity... insight... learning ability... problem solving ability... memory... and what some people call vision.
This type of brain function has been associated with geniuses-the Einsteins and Mozarts of the world.
As amazing as it may seem, we really do now have a method for tapping into this kind of whole brain, integrative, super-functioning, high-performance, creative thinking-a level of brain functioning.
Researcher Dr. Lester Fehmi has said that brain synchronization is correlated experientially with a union with experience, and 'into-it-ness.' Instead of feeling separate and narrow-focused you tend to feel more into it...There's a whole-brain sensory integration going on and it's as if you become less self-conscious and function more intuitively.
Synchronizing your brain can quite simply catapult you to much higher levels of effectiveness in your life. Neurologist Jerre Levy of the University of Chicago had this to say about brain synchronization and personal effectiveness:
Great men and women of history did not merely have superior intellectual capacities within each hemisphere [of the brain]. They had phenomenal levels of emotional commitments, motivation, attentional capacity - all of which reflected the highly integrated brain in action.
Another crackpot theory. Like Xerxes said; meditation will get you further than some quack sticking something in your ear. For all you know it could be a metal box full of bloodthirsty man-eating earwigs. This is about the most retarded idea I've ever heard, and I've heard some good ones.
If a mod is reading, I declare that this thread should be moved to pseudoscience.
If a mod is reading, I declare that this thread should be moved to pseudoscience.
selfeducated1 said:
Selfeducated1, you are handy with the copy/paste function of your computer... the original bibliography is here for others to see and read the context that these citations were referring to.
My question for selfeducated1 is this: the bibliography that centerpointe provides is nice though quite old, but where's the citations to the studies they've conducted on the methodology that they claim obtains the results they claim for the hefty price of $159 + s/h?
A hallmark of pseudoscience is the ability to astound the ignorant (often those that believe they are self-educated) with scientific sounding jargon and quotes all-the-while conning them out of their money. State governments do this every day with the lotto, otherwise known as the "tax on the ignorant," by making a display out of odds, statistics, etc. and then following up with catch-phrases like, "you gotta play to win."
I looked their website over and didn't see the link or citation to their peer-reviewed study. Perhaps you can enlighten us? I realize you're astounded by the literature they've cited, but their literature review is only part of the process of research. They still have to provide the methodology (which they barely outline) as well as the results of their studies. Citing "Dr. Giampa" doesn't do anything for us. There's no indication that he was using the $159 +s/h package for sale by centerpointe to get his results, right?
selfeducated1 said:i if you find anything to contradict info i have supplied please share.
You haven't supplied data with regard to the $159 + s/h package, you've only copy/pasted the bibliography that centerpointe claims supports their $159 +s/h package. I'd like to see the peer-reviewed data of the $159 +s/h package, then we can talk about contradicting something.