Write4U's stream of consciousness

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NO ITS NOT!

That is empiricism! You have absolutely no idea what science and mathematics is.
You had absolutely no idea that differentiation was anything to do with it when it is absolutely CENTRAL to it. That is how lacking your understanding is yet you talk about QFT?
Of all that shouting I'll answer only this: In my microtubule thread, I already used "differentiation" in context of "cognition" and a potential model for an evolving form of consciousness.

Derivative
17d063dc86a53a2efb1fe86f4a5d47d498652766
, as expressed in symbolic values in Calculus.
The derivative is a fundamental tool of calculus that quantifies the sensitivity of change of a function's output with respect to its input.
A mathematical measurement.
The derivative of a function of a single variable at a chosen input value, when it exists, is the slope of the tangent line to the graph of the function at that point. The tangent line is the best linear approximation of the function near that input value.
For this reason, the derivative is often described as the instantaneous rate of change, the ratio of the instantaneous change in the dependent variable to that of the independent variable.[1] The process of finding a derivative is called differentiation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative

I have had to defend my use of the term "differential equation" in discussion of self-referential systems and behaviors several times now.
I cannot imagine why there is this vehement objection to the concept of existence in a mathematically guided (more or less predictable) environment.

The Implicate Order (potential) becoming Explicated Reality (matter) via mathematically logical operations. I can live with that.
 
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James R said:
What's "quantum level"? How many other levels are there?
According to you , that must be something you know about, no? If you have a thorough knowledge of quantum fields, why don't you explain it to me ?!
It sounds like you're asking me to teach you quantum field theory. That would be impractical to attempt here, even if I wanted to (and that's assuming I have a good enough understanding to do it in the first place).
 
It sounds like you're asking me to teach you quantum field theory. That would be impractical to attempt here, even if I wanted to (and that's assuming I have a good enough understanding to do it in the first place).
No, I am expressing my perspective on QFT in a general context but had hoped that interested parties might develop some useful information on the specific subject of consciousness.
 
You cannot study physics without the mathematics they are founded on and describe the actions and patterns based on mathematical potentials, not physics.
I'm not sure if that's a meaningful sentence.

If, however, you think that physics is based on mathematics, you've got it precisely backwards. Mathematics is a tool used in physics. The mathematics that a physicist uses will be chosen in order to model a physical process of some kind. In other words, the maths is kind of based on the physics, not the other way around. Either way, though, that's a rather clumsy way of explaining how the two subjects relate to one another.
The non-physical Implicate Order becoming expressed as the physical Explicate Order.
That's just mystical mumbo jumbo. It's almost like a mantra to you.
IMO, a mathematical universe is the only model that potentially meets ALL requirements for an evolving geometric universe.
What are the requirements the model must meet? And what other models have you considered?
In my microtubule thread, I already used "differentiation" in context of "cognition" and a potential model for an evolving form of consciousness.
You used differentiation to do what, exactly? Was it mathematical differentiation, or a more generalised "grab a dictionary and look up the many usages of the word 'differentiation'" kind of vibe?
Derivative
17d063dc86a53a2efb1fe86f4a5d47d498652766
, as expressed in symbolic values in Calculus.
It's rather ironic that you claim to know what a derivative is and then give an integral as an example of one (which it isn't, by the way).

Why do you pretend to understand things you don't understand? Why do you feel like you need to pretend? Doesn't it occur to you that you're already on a losing streak with that nonsense, when you demonstrate over and over again your lack of understanding?
I have had to defend my use of the term "differential equation" in discussion of self-referential systems and behaviors several times now.
You have been unable to defend it, because you don't know what a differential equation is. You should stop pretending to know what it is. You could try to learn what it is, if you're actually interested. A good start, if you want to do that, would be to ask somebody who knows.

You're completely wasting your time when you pretend you can apply a "differential equation" to a "self-referential system". You've demonstrated no such ability. It looks like you're simply stringing random terms together and hoping somebody will believe you're a scientist, in effect. It's nonsense.
I cannot imagine why there is this vehement objection to the concept of existence in a mathematically guided (more or less predictable) environment.
Well, I've told you what my issue with mathematics guiding anything is. Did you forget? You never addressed the question, even though I have asked you directly, several times.
The Implicate Order (potential) becoming Explicated Reality (matter) via mathematically logical operations. I can live with that.
You have invented a religion that you can live with. Congratulations, I guess. Just don't go pretending it's science.
 
I'm not sure if that's a meaningful sentence.
OK, then try to fashion a physical interaction that does not invoke a mathematical function.
Mathematics is a tool used in physics
It's a tool for humans, it's a fuction of the universe.
That's just mystical mumbo jumbo. It's almost like a mantra to you.
Oh, Bohm had some wonderful insights. Einstein respected him very much and they were good friends.
What are the requirements the model must meet? And what other models have you considered?
What model can promise a TOE except a mathematical model.
You're completely wasting your time when you pretend you can apply a "differential equation" to a "self-referential system". You've demonstrated no such ability.
Oh, I thought that all equations are self-referential.
My bad?

What then is self-reference in mathematics?

Self-reference is a concept that involves referring to oneself or one's own attributes, characteristics, or actions. It can occur in language, logic, mathematics, philosophy, and other fields.
In mathematics and computability theory, self-reference (also known as impredicativity) is the key concept in proving limitations of many systems. Gödel's theorem uses it to show that no formal consistent system of mathematics can ever contain all possible mathematical truths, because it cannot prove some truths about its own structure. The halting problem equivalent, in computation theory, shows that there is always some task that a computer cannot perform, namely reasoning about itself. These proofs relate to a long tradition of mathematical paradoxes such as Russell's paradox and Berry's paradox, and ultimately to classical philosophical paradoxes.
In game theory, undefined behaviors can occur where two players must model each other's mental states and behaviors, leading to infinite regress.
In computer programming, self-reference occurs in reflection, where a program can read or modify its own instructions like any other data.[3] Numerous programming languages support reflection to some extent with varying degrees of expressiveness. Additionally, self-reference is seen in recursion (related to the mathematical recurrence relation) in functional programming, where a code structure refers back to itself during computation.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-reference#

Impredicativity
Description
In mathematics, logic and philosophy of mathematics, something that is impredicative is a self-referencing definition. Roughly speaking, a definition is impredicative if it invokes the set being defined, or another set that contains the thing
being defined. Wikipedia

And:
upload_2024-3-5_0-37-44.png
https://homepages.math.uic.edu/~kauffman/SelfRefRecurForm.pdf
 
It sounds like you're asking me to teach you quantum field theory. That would be impractical to attempt here, even if I wanted to (and that's assuming I have a good enough understanding to do it in the first place).
As he is incapable of understanding what a field is in physics, it would be futile, I agree. In fact, I don't think he understands what any entity in physics is, since he continually confuses physical concepts with mathematics.

I don't actually think he has much of his mind left, at all, these days. All he does is look things up on the internet and post them, as a kind of surrogate for understanding.
 
OK, then try to fashion a physical interaction that does not invoke a mathematical function

I gave you two. Physics is not mathematics, I will keep saying it till it sticks.

Here is another, if you get magnetic material from a quarry, metal will stick to it.

If you shine a light beam in water it will bend.

If you heat a gas up whilst in a closed container it will eventually swell and explode.


This is not mathematics, this is observation.
 
I gave you two. Physics is not mathematics, I will keep saying it till it sticks.
Here is another, if you get magnetic material from a quarry, metal will stick to it.
If you shine a light beam in water it will bend.
If you heat a gas up whilst in a closed container it will eventually swell and explode.
This is not mathematics, this is observation.
Yes, and it is not science, it is narrative of a subjective observation, not knowledge of the phenomenon itself. Without knowledge of the maths involved an expanding container may just kill you.
A lab explosion is doing physics, but not science. It is committing physical suicide from ignorance.

Science is the descriptive codification and symbolization of these physical phenomena, in order to explain the underlying functional mechanics and why expanding gas leads to explosion (in a closed geometry), not just that it does.
"Mathematics is the gateway and key to all sciences" (Bacon).
 
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I don't actually think he has much of his mind left, at all, these days. All he does is look things up on the internet and post them, as a kind of surrogate for understanding.
I like the intellectual conflict in that statement.
Looking things up to gain understanding is contrary to the scientific method? How odd.
Where did you get your knowledge , if not by looking things up? Divine inspiration ?
That's what you accuse me of, no?
 
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Yes, and it is not science, it is narrative of a subjective observation, not knowledge of the phenomenon itself. Without knowledge of the maths involved an expanding container may just kill you.
A lab explosion is doing physics, but not science. It is committing physical suicide from ignorance.

Science is the descriptive codification and symbolization of these physical phenomena, in order to explain the underlying functional mechanics and why expanding gas leads to explosion (in a closed geometry), not just that it does.
"Mathematics is the gateway and key to all sciences" (Bacon).
My advice to you at this point is forget what you think you know.
You have people qualified in science on the site, in this thread, telling you that you are getting things wrong.
The smart thing would be to listen.

I will go one step further, stop watching YouTube videos and get out a physics text book out of the library, start at the beginning.

You can use free on line resources, even CERN have an open access free library.
 
My advice to you at this point is forget what you think you know.
You have people qualified in science on the site, in this thread, telling you that you are getting things wrong.
The smart thing would be to listen.
OH, I listen, but nobody is telling me how it is wrong. A debate is not an exchange of advice to study more.
That's what you tell a teenager, not a "well-read" immigrant speaking a second language.
I will go one step further, stop watching YouTube videos and get out a physics text book out of the library, start at the beginning.
Oh just any text book on physics will do? And where would be the beginning, middle, the end? And that will teach me what?
Understanding the difference between energy and matter??
You can use free on line resources, even CERN have an open access free library.
Thank you for link.

I had hoped to get correct information from the horse's mouth, but alas.....you teach me nothing but how to be obnoxious.
If you are such a fountain of information, why has your well dried up and you are directing me to someone else's well.

And when would you know that I have learned anything? When I quote the science I read? I already do and I have noticed you never disagree with the quoted material, but insist with kneejerk response that I don't understand what I am quoting in context because I don't read it. You are claiming clairvoyance.

Talk to me about the accompanying quoted materials and where my understanding appears insufficient, don't call me stupid and incapable of understanding. That's not only rude, it's hypocritical.
 
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I don't actually think he has much of his mind left, at all, these days. All he does is look things up on the internet and post them, as a kind of surrogate for understanding.
Mmmm... It does strike me as almost an obsessive compulsive behaviour. He gains nothing from it in terms of better understanding science or anything like that, so why do it at all? It seems like a habit he can't let go of.

As far as posting here goes, maybe it's a just his best attempt at provoking a social interaction? The aim is not to post something useful, or even interesting. The aim is to provoke a response from somebody else. Hence, posting anything that keeps the conversation going is a "win", as far as he is concerned. It doesn't matter if it's off topic, nonsensical or just something he made up on the spur of the moment. All he is looking for is a reply. Criticism doesn't bother him. I'm not sure that he even remembers what the criticism is from one post to the next, or whether he can concentrate long enough to follow a line of reasoning for more than a sentence or two. The number of non sequitur responses he posts show that either he's a cleverer-than-average troll or that his clear thinking days might be in the past. I think, though, that if he was a knowing troll, the novelty of putting on the same act over a period of years probably would have worn off by now.
 
I like the intellectual conflict in that statement.
Looking things up to gain understanding is contrary to the scientific method? How odd.
Where did you get your knowledge , if not by looking things up? Divine inspiration ?
That's what you accuse me of, no?

What do you want to know? Let's do one thing at a time.
 
I don't know. No one does.
A moment of clarity.
I meant mathematics and physics.
What is it about mathematics (the symbolization of values) that makes it unsuitable to explain the universe?
What is it about physics (the symbolization of patterns) that makes it exclusively suitable for explaining the universe?

FINDING PATTERNS
Through physics we create models or patterns that describe and predict how nature works. These are our natural laws. Written down as mathematical formulae with explicitly defined terms, they specify the relationships between forces and matter that govern and predict the workings of our physical world.
https://www.findingpatterns.info/physics#
 
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What is it about mathematics (the symbolization of values) that makes it unsuitable to explain the universe?
Math is used extensively to explain aspects of the universe. I don't know what you mean by the "symbolization of values", but I don't think that matters.
What is it about physics (the symbolization of patterns) that makes it exclusively suitable for explaining the universe?
Ignoring the "symbolization of patterns" comment, broadly speaking physics is the study of physical processes so it naturally is the area of science for making sense of the universe.

I'm not sure how such rather 'big picture' questions are going to help you.
 
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