Women in Christianity

That´s true Kat, according to the bible women had only slightly more rights than slaves. Alas, the bible is hard on both. Only the god-believing/fearing men had real rights.
Click to expand...
See "Women were non-persons back then in the OT--they had NO legal rights in the system at all!" and "Sure, women could be prophets, but they couldn't participate in government."

  1. Deborah was actually a national 'judge' (like Samuel)
  2. One woman built three cities (and named one after herself)
  3. The Sage-women were local city elder-types.
  4. Each king had a dominant queen--for good or ill! (cf. Jezebel)
  5. Queen mothers functioned as vice-Kings, to the point that one could rule the land for 7 years without a king on the throne--and no one had a problem with it...
  6. Even some of the prophetesses were attached to the court--Huldah was probably a court-prophet (and was married to a court official).
  7. There were female scribes (originally a court position) that returned under Ezra.
  8. They had access to the king and to legal courts.
  9. There were female singers (and male singers) that had court assignments.
  10. They assisted in rebuilding the Walls of Jerusalem.
 
Perhaps, but there were male slaves. And the bible advocated slavery.
If the slave was no christian it was all right to own him.
Did nature make christians stronger in order to enable them to have slaves?
 
Dreamwalker said:
Perhaps, but there were male slaves. And the bible advocated slavery.
If the slave was no christian it was all right to own him.
Did nature make christians stronger in order to enable them to have slaves?
Click to expand...
I don't want to turn this thread into one about slavery - I've posted at length about that elsewhere. But are you aware the the whole epistle to Philemon is Paul asking him to free his runaway slave Onesimus and welcome him as an equal, even a brother. This was while Roman law permitted you to kill a slave that ran away.
Phil.1:15 Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back for good -- no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord.​
Anyway, can you name one - just one - passage where the Bible encourages slavery? What about Abraham's slave Hagar, whose child Ishmael God makes into a great nation? The most we hear of slavery, is that Israel themselves will be given over to slavery. Slavery is seen as a sign of oppression and power, and God has the power to deliver us from it. God encourages us to be free, from human slavery if possible, but from slavery to sin above all.
1 Corinthians 7:21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you–although if you can gain your freedom, do so.​
Katazia said:
And was this pervasive or the exception?
Click to expand...
I assume you mean "women in prominent positions"? It seems to be neither the rule nor the exception. We never hear about the "King of Sheba", it's the Queen of Sheba who comes to see Solomon. But I hardly expect to see an equal amount of men and women in power simply because women aren't inferior. One has to account for tradition, culture and many things that don't simply change because of principles.
 
Jenyar,

There have indeed been a number of powerful women in history but these do tend to be the exceptions. I have immense respect for them since they certainly would have had to have overcome enormous resistance to achieve what they did.

But in religion they have not done so well.

In Judaism women rabbis have only been begrudgingly permitted since 1970 and still there is fierce opposition.

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Judaism/women_rabbis.html

And in Catholicism – oh no - http://sycophants.info/women-priests.html that is still a bastion of male bigotry.

And Islam – women mullahs – what a joke.

Kat
 
Kat,

That's true. Let me speak from personal experience. I've listened to a few female proponents in different churches, and for one: their voices simply didn't carry that well. Of course, I grew up with a father authority-figure. Maybe I'm old school, but still - the message should be for me as much as anyone, right?

And those who did make a powerful impression... well, let's just say it felt like it was my mother talking to me - but saying something I expected to hear from my father. Before you become agitated about that, let me explain - and I think many people have a similar feeling: when you think of warmth, comfort, personal attention and a soft touch - is it your father that automatically comes to mind? On the other hand, when people who have had a hard time, setbacks or suffering in their lives, and they're looking for someone that isn't "threatening", for prayer or counselling or just conversation - they're more open towards the women. Men automatically tend to try to solve the problem, women have a natural empathy that's comforting. One is not more important than the other.

The qualities that convey strength and authority, or beauty and empathy, does not lie in ability alone.

It's a sensitive subject. I think that, everybody has their gifts and talents - some natural, some acquired. Your examples above are from groups that hold very othodox views - they rely heavily on tradition to define themselves - and change will come with much effort. But I'm not so sure that being rabbi's, priests or mullah's is what women are really fighting for in those groups; those are secondary objectives. I think it's for freedom, individuality and recognition, and that's an inalienable right no matter from what angle you look at it. But women should not want to become men, that just plays into the hands of bigotry.

Religion is very much linked to culture, and where people have preferences, their culture is where they express it. There are two ways to approach change: to fight it - for or against - or to proceed into it with love and sensitivity. I'm for the latter.
 
Last edited:
Jenyar said:
Religion is very much linked to culture, and where people have preferences, their culture is where they express it.
Click to expand...

I was always under the impression that religion is very much linked to God, and books of which are supposed to preach love and peace. The Bible and the Quran has a lot to answer to.

I still can't grasp that if God is peace and love why is prejudism scattered throughout the book.

Also, why is sexual discrimination rife in religion, I know it exists in other roles of life but I am amazed that Christian ideals are somewhat retarded in this area.
 
Vienna said:
I was always under the impression that religion is very much linked to God, and books of which are supposed to preach love and peace. The Bible and the Quran has a lot to answer to.
Click to expand...

What specifically does the Bible have to answer to?

I still can't grasp that if God is peace and love why is prejudism scattered throughout the book.
Click to expand...

Humans (as individuals) don't want "peace", they want superiority over their fellow man. If God had changed it you would be screaming "free will" to better one self...

Anyhow we aren't to question God's will.

Also, why is sexual discrimination rife in religion, I know it exists in other roles of life but I am amazed that Christian ideals are somewhat retarded in this area.
Click to expand...

Is that generalization?
 
hmmmm thats interesting because if you look at the world today OBJECTIVELY who is trying to impose their will on whom ...........Islam or Christian west?
 
surenderer said:
hmmmm thats interesting because if you look at the world today OBJECTIVELY who is trying to impose their will on whom ...........Islam or Christian west?
Click to expand...

You will find that the Christian west is not as Christian as you would think. The west is largely secular.

The Christian population is worldwide, it does not have boundaries as you suggest.
 
Vienna said:
I was always under the impression that religion is very much linked to God, and books of which are supposed to preach love and peace. The Bible and the Quran has a lot to answer to.

I still can't grasp that if God is peace and love why is prejudism scattered throughout the book.
Click to expand...
The Bible is a book that describes what people did, preached and believed. So it reflects their culture and worldview. Therefore it also reflects people's attitudes and behaviour - whether positive or negative: including hate, sins and inequities. God's involvement is like a golden thread that provides the counter-balance to these sins.

Also, why is sexual discrimination rife in religion, I know it exists in other roles of life but I am amazed that Christian ideals are somewhat retarded in this area.
Click to expand...
That's because Christians are people, too (surprised?). Their ideals are not more retarded than any conservative group, some are just more cautious about making changes that affects the natural order. Take note, I said "natural order" not "status quo". The battle of the sexes is a war that is being waged among Christians just as in other circles. Wherever it is being resolved with love and senstivity, that is the Christian ieal - not prejudice. Prejudice is ingrained in people first, their ideologies second. The same with racism.

When people use Christianity as a crutch to rest their prejudices on, they can be certain it will be pulled out beneath them, and they will stand exposed for their hatred.
 
Jenyar said:
The Bible is a book that describes what people did, preached and believed. So it reflects their culture and worldview. Therefore it also reflects people's attitudes and behaviour - whether positive or negative: including hate, sins and inequities. God's involvement is like a golden thread that provides the counter-balance to these sins.
Click to expand...

So when Christians reach for the Bible for guidance they are seeking advice from the positive and negative attitudes of people of over a thousand years ago. Talk about going round in circles...phew!

Way to go Jenyar, thats what I call progress. ;)

That's because Christians are people, too (surprised?). Their ideals are not more retarded than any conservative group, some are just more cautious about making changes that affects the natural order. Take note, I said "natural order" not "status quo". The battle of the sexes is a war that is being waged among Christians just as in other circles. Wherever it is being resolved with love and senstivity, that is the Christian ieal - not prejudice. Prejudice is ingrained in people first, their ideologies second. The same with racism.
Click to expand...

Secularism is way ahead of Christianity with reference to sexual equality, (surprised?).

When people use Christianity as a crutch to rest their prejudices on, they can be certain it will be pulled out beneath them, and they will stand exposed for their hatred.
Click to expand...

Look out Bush, Jenyars gonna get you.... :D
 
Last edited:
Vienna said:
So when Christians reach for the Bible for guidance they are seeking advice from the positive and negative attitudes of people of over a thousand years ago. Talk about going round in circles...phew!
Click to expand...
The message is clear enough. It does provide a context for everything it describes. A Context that knows the heart, justifies only faith, condemns sin, gives hope, and loves those who love.
Secularism is way ahead of Christianity with reference to sexual equality, (surprised?).
Click to expand...
Way to go, secularism!
Look out Bush, Jenyars gonna get you....
Click to expand...
Those soldiers who abused their prisoners have more to worry about...
 
surenderer said:
hmmmm thats interesting because if you look at the world today OBJECTIVELY who is trying to impose their will on whom ...........Islam or Christian west?
Click to expand...

Christian west ??? Oh i wish :D But no sorry Christians are a small minority in the western world, There are just as many Christians in the middle east as there are in europe, I would even go so far as to say there are more christians in the middle east them in europe. Calling the west Christian is like calling the arab world buddist.

:D

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
RosaMagika said:
Where does prejudice come from?
Click to expand...
From ingorance or dishonesty about who you are yourself. Prejudice is nothing but egotism and elitism. True, culture and traditions are vehicles for it, and ideologies may give it definition, but its heart is fear. Love has no place for fear.
 
Adstar said:
Christian west ??? Oh i wish :D But no sorry Christians are a small minority in the western world, There are just as many Christians in the middle east as there are in europe, I would even go so far as to say there are more christians in the middle east them in europe. Calling the west Christian is like calling the arab world buddist.
Click to expand...

Well, apparently this is the core of the problem with Christians: Some are 'true Christians' (very few), and some are 'Christians' (many many) -- but both call themselves by the same name.


How are non-believers to distinguish them?

Am I to call my neighbours, who do go to church and are baptized and everything -- but neglect their cats, and thier son goes and shoots birds for fun -- am I to call these people something else than Christians?

They may not be the 'true Christians' -- but what other way do I have to call them, than the way they say they want to be called?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top