Women in Christianity

Vienna

Registered Senior Member
1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Isn't it true that this prejudiced quote from the Bible affects the role of women in Christianity? In England there has much controversy of women wanting to become vicars priests etc. and only recently has this been allowed. A female bishop has yet to be seen.

Yet the head of the Church of England is a woman - Queen Elizabeth II

Prejudice and Hypocrisy!
 
It is not like women had much worth in the bible.


"Behold the day of the Lord is coming, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in the midst of you. For I will gather the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished..."
..........Zachariah 14:1

"...I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the light of this sun."
..........2 Samuel 12:11

"Thus a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives..."
..........Romans 7:2

"For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman but woman for man."
..........1 Corinthians, 11:8

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."
..........1 Corinthians 14:34


No, the bible ain´t nice on women.

But the guys over in England are protestants. They seperated themselves from the common christian teachings.
 
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Dreamwalker said:


But the guys over in England are protestants. They seperated themselves from the common christian teachings.

Not true, In England there is a good mixture of Protestant (Church of England) and Catholics, along with minor Christian denominations such as Methodist, Presbyterian, etc.

Just curious though, what do you mean by "They seperated themselves from the common christian teachings" ?

:)
 
Hah!!!

Are you serious?? Have you seen "The Magdalene Sisters"?!

"Women can work towards their salvation by praying and obeying God. In order to save a man, what tempts him must be removed -- the woman."
 
RosaMagika said:
Hah!!!

Are you serious?? Have you seen "The Magdalene Sisters"?!

"Women can work towards their salvation by praying and obeying God. In order to save a man, what tempts him must be removed -- the woman."

Sexual discrimination is rife in religion eh! :)
 
Just curious though, what do you mean by "They seperated themselves from the common christian teachings" ?

There is a difference between old catholic belief and protestant belief.
For protestants it is all right to get divorced, for example.
(that was also a reason why the protestant church was created, wasn´t it?)
 
Dreamwalker said:
There is a difference between old catholic belief and protestant belief.
For protestants it is all right to get divorced, for example.
(that was also a reason why the protestant church was created, wasn´t it?)
Yes, that was Henry's argument with Rome, but apart from that - what else?

You said teachings, as in plural?
 
Dreamwalker said:
There is a difference between old catholic belief and protestant belief.
For protestants it is all right to get divorced, for example.
(that was also a reason why the protestant church was created, wasn´t it?)

Thats why the church of england was formed. so that henery could keep trying new woman to find one who would give him a son.

All Praise The Ancient of Days
 
I suppose you have to ask someone who knows a bit more about protestants and catholics than me. I only learned about it in history lessons and there, the information was kept rather general. (I might also have forgotten some of the things I learned)
I suppose both churches also disagree on matters concerning the social place of women.
 
RosaMagika said:
"Women can work towards their salvation by praying and obeying God. In order to save a man, what tempts him must be removed -- the woman."
And the Magdalene Sisters was a prime description of what happens when men and women decide to do God's work, that amounts to rejecting what He has already done. Salvation was provided by Christ for humanity, without destinction. It is not for us to separate ourselves from each other to remove sin, because separation is the result of sin. Paul said a man and his wife could separate for a time,but should "... come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of selfcontrol." (1 Cor. 7:5).

The movie told me this: we can't flee from sin - our refuge will become our prison.
 
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Jenyar, What does this tell you?:-

1 Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
 
Dreamwalker
... and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished..." (Zachariah 14:1)​
Have you seen Troy? Listen to what they say the Greeks would do to the women and children. Whoever weren't soldiers were spoils of war. It was by no means confined to the Bible.
"...I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the light of this sun." (2 Samuel 12:11)​
As a sign of disgrace. These things were abhorrent, and that's why the above is such a threat.
"Thus a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives..." (Romans 7:2)​
Considering that women had no legal status of their own, being bound to the husband by law actually gave her rights. If it was such a bad thing, why are homosexuals, for instance, fighting for that right today?
"For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman but woman for man." (1 Corinthians, 11:8)​
Read a little further: verses 11-12 say "In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."

So the women is legally bound to the man, and the man is legally bound to God... Think a little - what status does that logically give to women? v.11 and 12 explains that it's not a hierarchy, but a unit. "And they shall become one" (Gen. 2:24).

Consider this commentary on the "submission" passages in Col.3 and Ephesians:
“The section [Ephesians] 5:21–6:9 addresses what we call “household codes.” In Paul's day, many Romans were troubled by the spread of “religions from the East” (e.g., Isis worship, Judaism and Christianity), which they thought would undermine traditional Roman family values. Members of these minority religions often tried to show their support for those values by using a standard form of exhortations developed by philosophers from Aristotle on. These exhortations about how the head of a household should deal with members of his family usually break down into discussions of husband-wife, father-child and master-slave relationships. Paul borrows this form of discussion straight from standard Greco-Roman moral writing. But unlike most ancient writers, Paul undermines the basic premise of these codes: the absolute authority of the male head of the house.” - The Bible Background Commentary-NT. Keener, Craig. S. , IVP, 1993.
See The Rights of Women According to Roman Law and Women in History - Roman Law for a comparison.

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." (1 Corinthians 14:34)​
Again, read a little further. The concern is propriety and order. A Jewish synagogues separates men and women, and each had their place. The original churches were founded on this model.

Later on we see women held churches in their houses, as in Colossians 4:15 "Give my greetings to the brothers at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house." and Lydia (Acts 16), who housed Paul after his release from prison (v.40). Not to mention deaconesses like Phoebe at the church in Cenchrea (Rom. 16:1).

In the Bible the emphasis is on submission to God - which I have explained consistently means love. You'll frequently see the term "in Christ", That is what "obedience" means. But Paul has a Pharisaic (orthodox Jewish) background, and contextualizes this "liberation" within the established order. He does not encourage rebelliousness, but love, as demonstrated by Christ.
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.​
 
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PS. As a side note: Remember that the gospels indicate that women were the eye-witnesses of the empty grave?

Women could not testify to the truth of something. Their testimonies were inadmissable in courts. But did the gospel writers change the accounts to make it more "believable"? Instead, they report that Jesus scolded the disciples for not believing the women.
 
I do know that ultimately women are the same as men to god.
But on earth they are not. They were obviously considered inferior to men.

And I know that women were raped by the vikings, the greeks, soldiers in general. But the vikings did not have a bible, did they?
You have to agree that some sections in the bible shed a bad light on the religoin.
 
And I know that women were raped by the vikings, the greeks, soldiers in general. But the vikings did not have a bible, did they?
Remember, while the things that are written in the Bible were happening, those people didn't have the "Bible" as we know it, either. The important thing is that they eventually came to realize they were on the wrong side of the justice they thought they were dealing, as everybody will.

You have to agree that some sections in the bible shed a bad light on the religoin.
I agree that some sections (if not most of it) shed a bad light on humanity. And I think it's something people should take note of, not reject because it's "religious".
 
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I am aware that such things are a fault of humanity. But when they are written in the holy scriptures of a supposedly peaceful and loving religion, it makes you think twice.
 
the Hebrews weren't so peaceful and loving - they were as harsh in dealing with their enemies as any of the ancient nation, although they were a minority and were otherwise insignificant. But they had prophets and people who knew God, and God chose them from among all nations to represent Him on earth. That does not automatically make them much better than they really were.

The prophets told them what God's will was, and where they were lacking. Their laws and prophecies were more a learning school than a great advancement in morality. But it slowly revealed God's nature to them. They got to know the God of creation, and through them, we got to know Him as well. Jesus' saying "nobody is good except God" is true. To imagine Judaism or Christianity as above the trappings of sin, cruelty and corruption undermines this truth, but it doesn't change the fact that God revealed it, so that we could see ourselves in the mirror, so to speak.
 
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The major religions; Christianity, Islam, Judaism, are simply patriarcal obscentities. They were invented by men for men at times when women were treated as little more than their slaves.

Kat
 
That´s true Kat, according to the bible women had only slightly more rights than slaves. Alas, the bible is hard on both. Only the god-believing/fearing men had real rights.


It somehow looks like the present christians get rather one dimensional in their thinking about god. They seem to ignore the bad sides.
 
There was nothing to invent. People don't invent religions now to justify oppression, and they didn't need it then. Why don't you blame evolution for making men stronger? Men took on a role nature gave them, and now out of your emancipated 21st century couch you condemn them for it.

Besides, Ether and Ruth were heroes of the faith, and they were women.
 
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