Wombs for rent in India

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EVERY night in this quiet western Indian city, 15 pregnant women prepare for sleep in the spacious house they share, ascending the stairs in a procession of ballooned bellies, to bedrooms that become a landscape of soft hills.

A team of maids, cooks and doctors looks after the women, whose pregnancies would be unusual anywhere else but are common here. The young mothers of Anand, a place famous for its milk, are pregnant with the children of infertile couples from around the world.

The small clinic at Kaival Hospital matches infertile couples with local women, cares for the women during pregnancy and delivery, and counsels them afterward. Anand's surrogate mothers, pioneers in the growing field of outsourced pregnancies, have given birth to roughly 40 babies.

More than 50 women in this city are now pregnant with the children of couples from the United States, Taiwan, Britain and beyond. The women earn more than many would make in 15 years. But the program raises a host of uncomfortable questions that touch on morals and modern science, exploitation and globalisation, and that most natural of desires: to have a family.
What do you make of this?

To me the problem isn't 'in' the clinic. It sounds like - on paper - they are minimizing the damage of what is being done and treat the women with respect.

The problem is around the clinic: poverty, for example. Ask a woman who had a miscarriage if she did not feel bonded to that child. It is not a natural or pleasant 'job' to go through a pregnancy and then give the child away and it is not a likely first choice for income, or even hundredth choice.

And yet, adoption would be a whole lot better approach to building the family.
 
Ahahaha, none. Of course I *could* be infertile but I am young and horny so I doubt it. The point(s) still stand though, whatever those were.
 
what do you make of this?

What sort of women seek surrogates?
Did those women previously have abortions, or have become infertile or otherwise unsuitable to bear a child as a result of contraceptive use?
If such women seek surrogates to bear their children, then they are hypocrites.
 
No it wouldn't. Then you just end up spending all your hard earned money bringing up SOMEONE ELSE'S CHILD who isn't even related to you.

Adoption is for suckers.
An idea not backed up by research or experience on your part either I would guess. The 'is for suckers' part.

Only a very mental approach to life, cut off from the emotions or knowledge, would think this idea actually applies to reality.

I can only assume you are coming from some sort of 'not my DNA' perspective, so I'll mention
Even animals adopt, sometimes even across species.
 
I have no problem with it, sometime adopted children may have memories of their parents, While I'd rather people adopt first, As long as the mothers are compensated properly.
I understand that pregnancy can have adverse effects on some, like loss of calcium from teeth, increased chance of disease etc.
 
Only a very mental approach to life, cut off from the emotions or knowledge, would think this idea actually applies to reality.

Only a very emotional approach to life, cut off from any kind of mental processing ability, independent thought or knowledge, would think this idea actually applies to reality.

There we go, fixed it.


Even animals adopt, sometimes even across species.

Yeah, but they eat shit too.
 
Easy there, being healthy and virile I have never needed to understand the intricacies of spazzy genitals and the workarounds. I was under the impression these women were knocked up with the gent's sperm, didn't realise the lady's eggs were also involved.

Being "healthy and virile" says nothing about your sperm count. You can have 100 erections a day and still have a low sperm count or non-viable sperm, no matter how young or old you are.

Mostly, the 'wife's' eggs are used. Sometimes, in instances where she has been ill in the past (cancer for example) and had not had her eggs harvested, a donor egg may be used to be implanted in the surrogate mother. And sometimes, the surrogate mother may donate her eggs, but that tends to enter the slippery legal slope, so it is quite rare.

Why the fuck shouldn't you ask if a woman is fertile?
I'll put it to you this way. In all the time I dated my husband (and my other boyfriends before him), not a single one of them asked me if I was fertile. Nor did I ask them. After I had been dating my husband for a while, we were talking about children (his sister had just had her second child) and he said he didn't want any after seeing what his nephews were like. I then told him it was funny because I could not have any. He did not care either way. I guess we were together because we loved each other. Not because either of us wanted to spawn.:rolleyes:

We now have two children.:) Seems I could have children after all.. much to our shock and horror in those first few months of pregnancy with our first child..

What if you marry and find out she's barren and already knew it? What sort of shitty fate would that be?
Having children is usually discussed prior to marriage... 'do you want to have children?'.. 'yes.. no'.. And usually, and I mean usually, that is when the one who can't have them will explain their situation.

Are you seriously implying that men and women get together for something other than proliferation?
Yes.
 
with respect to bell (and sympathy) most people wouldnt even know if they were fertile or not, if they did there would be a lot less spent on the pill for instance. I mean would you just test everyone at the end of pubity for infertility? the first most people know about it is when they try to get pregant and cant
 
Consummate consumers

Source: NYTimes.com
Link: http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/03/outsourced-wombs/index.html
Title: "Outsourced Wombs", by Judith Miller
Date: January 3, 2008


Author and XM Radio host Judith Warner posted this commentary yesterday:

They couldn't hear Julie speaking in her awful, entitled tone. And if they had, would they have cared? "From the money I earn as a surrogate mother, I can buy a house," said Nandani Patel, via a translator. "It's not possible for my husband to earn more as he's not educated and only earns $50 a month."

We, however, can hear the imperious tone, so much more audible in radio than in the troubling print reports that have surfaced lately on Indian surrogate mothers' "wombs for rent." And we should care about how things sound.

Because what's going on in India – where surrogacy is estimated now to be a $445-million-a-year business — feels like a step toward the kind of insane dehumanization that filled the dystopic fantasies of Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" and Margaret Atwood's "Handmaid's Tale." (One "medical tourism" website, PlanetHospital.com, refers to the Indian surrogate mother as a mere "host.") Images of pregnant women lying in rows, or sitting lined up, belly after belly, for medical exams look like industrial outsourcing pushed to a nightmarish extreme.

I say "feels like" and "look like" because I can't quite bring myself to the point of saying "is." And in this, I think, I am right in the mainstream of American thought on the topic of surrogate motherhood.


(Warner)

Perhaps most distasteful about "Julie", the American client seeking a surrogate in India is the thought that, in traveling abroad, she is merely shopping around for the best price:

"The legal issues in the United States are complicated, having to do with that the surrogate mother still has legal rights to that child until they sign over their parental rights at the time of the delivery. Of course, and there’s the factor of costs. For some couples in the United States surrogacy can reach up to $80,000 ....

".... You have no idea if your surrogate mother is smoking, drinking alcohol, doing drugs. You don’t know what she’s doing. You have a third-party agency as a mediator between the two of you, but there’s no one policing her in the sense that you don’t know what’s going on."


(ibid)

Warner asks the obvious question: "Would you want this woman owning your womb?"

And she also points out that the surrogate mothers in India don't seem troubled about such thoughts. Available for between about 7.5 to 12 per cent of the cost, Indian surrogates are an attractive option for cost-conscious American consumers.

But Warner is not wholly condemning. While I question her choice to invoke a recent Newsweek story about overseas adoption, she does make a point about the emotions driving these American consumers:

Being infertile when you deeply desire a baby is one of those heartbreaking, life-altering trials that an outsider to the experience cannot begin to appreciate; I appreciate that. Adoption is complicated; just how fatally complicated some of the cases of children adopted from orphanages in Russia and Eastern Europe turned out to be was chronicled, devastatingly, last month in Newsweek. And poor Indian women don’t have an awful lot of choices so far as real money-making – to pay for school, to pay for a home – is concerned.

(ibid)

Additionally, Warner raises a certain issue that Americans tend to shy away from. After citing a French court ruling from 1991 that outlawed commercial surrogacy in that nation, she notes,

But our rules of decency seem to differ when the women in question are living in abject poverty, half a world away. Then, selling one’s body for money is not degrading but empowering ....

.... In its perverse way, surrogacy does seem to bring a measure of empowerment to the poor Indian women who take part in it. Dr. Nayna Patel, the director of a popular clinic that draws dozens of poor rural women as surrogates every year, houses them and provides them with constant monitoring and medical care, told Marie Claire magazine last summer that she takes steps to ensure that each woman who contracts with her as a surrogate keeps control of her money afterwards. “If she wants to buy a house, we’ll hold her money for her until she’s ready. Or if she wants to put it in an account for her children, we’ll go with her to the bank to set up the account in her name,” she said.

Which brings us back to the fertile question of the “feels like” rather than the “is.” In an awful world, where many women are in awful circumstances, how do you single out for condemnation an awful-seeming transaction that yields so much life betterment?


(ibid)

So it seems that one of the central arguments we must face is whether, while dignity is certainly a variable standard related to prevailing conditions, we should exploit it as such. It is easy enough to say that I would never wish such an enterprise on my own daughter, from either side of the equation. But we are Americans, and no matter how poor a father I might turn out to be, it is unlikely that, barring unforeseen cataclysm, she will ever have to make such decisions.

As an adopted child, I do object to surrogacy on the grounds that there are many existing children in need of homes, and the only thing that separates them from the surrogate offspring is a matter of pride. Consumers like Julie can say that a surrogate-born child is "theirs" in a way that they cannot if they adopt a child. Perhaps this is an evolutionary trait, but it is ugly nonetheless. While Julie shops around for the best price, thousands of children who have already arrived on planet Earth will languish in need of a home; perhaps it is best that they not go home with such callous consumers. My own adoption seems to have worked out for the best. Not everyone can say that.

Lastly, I'm curious about the long-term effect. American women are largely accustomed to complaining about the effects of pregnancy on their bodies. And many adulterous husbands would agree. Perhaps in twenty years, when someone brings forth a broad study suggesting the effects of low-cost surrogacy on the surrogates' health and quality of life, we will be in a better position to understand the implications of what this process is doing to people. To the other, since we Americans are consummate consumers, it is likely that the only quality of life indicator that matters will be the one preceded by a dollar sign.
 
Only a very emotional approach to life, cut off from any kind of mental processing ability, independent thought or knowledge, would think this idea actually applies to reality.

There we go, fixed it.

You fixed it to match your hallucination. You obviously know little about the people who adopt or are adopted since you can sum the former up as 'suckers'. People who are lured into doing something where they lose out. A hallucination that you cannot back up.




Yeah, but they eat shit too.
My point was related to DNA based arguments against adoption. But you have no argument against adoption. I'll treat your first post with your 'suckers' hypothesis as something like a burp.
 
OK then sowhatifit'sdark, explain to me exactly why it's NOT a complete waste of time and resources to adopt? What you end up with is essentially a very expensive human pet. Yes, it serves a good purpose in that a disadvantaged child ends up in a home with a "mother" and a "father", but that is not the angle either of us is coming from.
 
Schleebenhorst, you're a royal goose.
Are you trying really hard to sound like a dumbfuck pratt or does it just come naturally?
You're either stirring the pot for your own perverse amusement or you have not a single clue how far out of your depth you are on this topic.

Either way, time to shut the fuck up.
 
Maybe I'm just trying to provoke some independent thought.

Why are you so angry? Something amiss in the trouser department? ;)

Mmmm! Independent thought?
Why didn't I think of that?

No, not angry but yes, haven't had a root since before lunch, I'm getting toey.
 
Mod Hat - Oh, come now

Mod Hat — Oh, come now ....

Oh, come now, people. What the hell?

Schleebenhorst: Your apparent value of human life is curious, indeed. Have you no love for anything that isn't related to you by blood? Or is that particular love reserved for something you can bang without going to prison?

Spud: Regardless of what kind of prat you think he's acting like, I would encourage you to remember that, according to his contempt for animals, he's also confessing that he's never had nor given a rimjob. Consider, for a moment, what kind of frustrated individual you're dealing with here, and have some mercy, man. I mean, and if I'm reading his user title (England !=UK) correctly, that would make him an Englishman who's never been rimmed. What does that make him, the only one?​

As a general note, if Schleebenhorst's performance in #20 above isn't a giveaway—

G. F. Schleebenhorst said:

Why the fuck shouldn't you ask if a woman is fertile? What if you marry and find out she's barren and already knew it? What sort of shitty fate would that be? Are you seriously implying that men and women get together for something other than proliferation?

—then I would urge that people take the hint now.

Let's not allow ill-writ comedy lead us astray. 'Tis a fascinating topic, indeed. Or so says me. Oh, right: and that counts for something, for once.

Thank ye ....
:cool:
 
Indeed I have never received a rimjob.... ?

Tiassa: I just don't see the point of all the money and toil involved in raising a kid who's eventually just going to run off and find their "real" parents anyway. The child isn't yours, so what's the huge investment for? You will eventually be forgotten or resented. It just seems pointless.

P.S != means "does not equal". It's for those resident on the upper part of that continent containing yankleton D. C. and an apparent banjo:map ratio of several billion to one.
 
G.F. Schleebenhorst said:

I just don't see the point of all the money and toil involved in raising a kid who's eventually just going to run off and find their "real" parents anyway.

That's quite the presumptuous stereotype.

The child isn't yours, so what's the huge investment for?

That's quite the presumptuous notion of family.

You will eventually be forgotten or resented.

Again, a presumptuous stereotype.

Oh, and the symbol for "does not equal" is ≠.
 
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