with religion we have infected our own evolutionary process

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smoking revolver
Valued Senior Member
Humans have evolved. From ape to homo eructus to homo sapiens, maybe later to homo electronicus; who knows... But there is also another kind of evolution and it happens in our minds. Now scientists have agreed that what developed first was our body - first we looked human, only then we became human.

Humans are a tribal society driven by fear from the unknown. It was like that and till wery recently it was only a religious fear from some mistical forces (god/s).

Nowadays humans have also started to fear from themselves or what they might become or acomplish (see. movie Terminator, Matrix, Aliens). Some are very afraid and go to extremes- (live in forests with no technology or whatever. They are fundamentalists of fear as much as christians are. Christians believe in their God, but really they believe in fear. They say they love their god, but why do they fear from him then (see. comandments, Sodom, Gomohr, the great flood). Nowaday religion is the cult of the advanced sciences. Who knows - maybe in 200 years they will worship some A.I. But the key factor remains - fear.

Fear for itself isn't "bad" , nothing is - all is relative. Fear is one of our basic instincts, it helps us to survive. But with religion people have created fear for themselves. Why? Maybe because they started to build cityes and life became less dangerous and they needed to compensate it somehow. Thus destructive gods appeared. Interesting that the fear from gods was equal or proportional to the governmental institution advancement in particular regions/cultures. Where people were very independent in ancient times - like in Latvia - there was no fear from gods. Life was good and if smth bad happened then it was because of humans.

Where we see more "advanced" governmental control over its citizens there is a big religious influence. Primary driven by fear. See- Egyptians, Romans, Jews, Azteks, Hets. The state used religion to control the nation and the nation was in fear from the despotic rulers and their method of control aka religion. In ancient greek democracy people were more free, they had more rights and thus we see that they didn't fear from their gods. They were a part of their culture/society. Rome is an interesting example. In it's late existance period (and not so late) after year 100a.d. Romans more and more stopped believing their ancient gods, became more free thinking. Government saw that it is losing its control- then christianity came. An ultimate crowd control tool. Why else do you think it was made the state religion? Fear controls humans- as in subconscious and in consciouss state. If speaking of particularry christianity then I admit it is a well done control tool. So many leaders, despots have used it and use it; today also (see. Muslin countries, the USA (in god we trust, daily pledge, self declared itself a christianic nation).


Fear is nothing bad - take away fear and take away some part of humans in us. But fear from smth different, not the crowd control tools (religions).
Why do so many people "follow" different realigions , make themselves and their lives dependent from them? Why do they, when say they love freedom, they sell it to some mistical being? Governments also play a role in this. It is easyer to control such people, because they have common fears. Generally speaking - many people with one shot.But still- why people fall mostly for religions that include fear from god, or a destructive god, or hell or some powers that are dangerous to human species?

I have a speculation/theory. Humans are addicted to fear. They go to watch horror movies, go to theme parks and ride dangerous and high adneralin(sp) attraction, do bunjee jumping, etc. But it all is only temporary, the effect lasts not long after the process. Religion threatens you during your life, till you are alive(see. won't be good, you'll boil in lakes of fire). It's a daily process. Humans are adicted to fear and they also take pleasure from it (fear and pain can be pleasarus. I know- during trainings when we hit eachother, train blocking a, after some time you fall in a trance like comdition). So christians saying that they love god- they lie. They love fear, fear which gives them pleasure. It's like being stoned. But there is smth terribly wrong in this (religious affetion). 1. people lose some control on their lives. 2. in general these kind of people are more easy to manipulate. 3. They lose their rational thinking over time. Thus fear- which is/was the major key element in our evolution may become an element of regression for many of us. Back to the ape.

My solution? Humans must get rid of self established contol tools. They have created an autonomous control system (centralised and organised religion) that they themselves have lost contol of. Just like in some sci-fi stories where an A.I. takes over the world. Only in our case the "A.I." isn't smart, it can't make the world a better place. Humans must destroy tht "A.I." and take back control on their lives. Fear won't be destroyed, there are so much other things to fear of (see. metiorite strikes, overpopulation, global temperature increase, pollution, etc). These kind of fears/problems can not take over our world like the religions (A.I.'s) do. They can be ended with, a solution can be found and by destroying that fear, we'll advance ourselves.

Religion is bad because it can not be ended with, it can not be disproved completely, there is no solution for a religion, because for everyone the religion is different. The only solution is the destruction of organised religion. It's like cancer which wants to live forever, but really is destroying our organism/human race. It must be operated and destroyed.. Medicine/other religions, religios reforms / can only take the pain away temporary.
Religion is like drugs (see. addiction to realigion/fear) which if too much used destroys our brain cells.

Our solution for the problem is destruction of that problem, because no other means are possible. And the only primary function of our race is still survival. But we have infected the survival princip (which is equal to fear, survival isntinct is powered by fear) with religion, we have infected our own evolution process, we are destroying ourselves (those who don't adapt , die out - natures's laws). We are all aware of physical threats (see. overpopulation , pollution, etc), but few are aware of the threats to our intelect/mind. We have created the religion (threat to our existance) , we must destroy it, we must survive, we must evolve; or die.....
 
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Thank You Avatar. You have finally stated what I have been trying to say for the longest time. I just didn't know how to word it. I completly agree with you. It must be destroyed, not weeded out person by person, with one swift action that will end religion. I once again thank you for putting up this thread, I have no doubt in my mind it is the truth.
 
Also I had a question. How do you change the status under your name and above your picture?
 
You have finally stated what I have been trying to say for the longest time.
Avatar, Good topic

Yes I'm happy you all like it, but where's the discussion???:confused:
Have I finally said smth everyone agrees in religion forums:confused: :eek: :cool:?????!!!!!!

If so then, I will carve this thread in stone and place it infront of my house:)
 
but what if I argued that those states using religion (fear) to manipulate its citizens were the more advanced states throughout history?

then it has the quiet opposite effect on our evolution than what you say.

I think its more a zero factor. in the end everyone believes something, its a pick your poison type of deal.

I hope this is actually relevant to your post...oops!
 
it is relevant

but what if I argued that those states using religion (fear) to manipulate its citizens were the more advanced states throughout history?
I do not reject it. Every state, future world government, needs some control over its citizens. In the past and present it has been mostly religious control. What I want is another way of control, not religious, because it shrinkens ones view to the world and leads into misguiding.
We must evolve into more advanced methods of control.

What other type of control?

We-humans- need smth uniting, for all of us. For a long time it has been religion.-> Americans-Christians, Israeli-Jews, India-Hindi, Iraq-Muslins.
I believe that a sufficient scientifical progress will unify us.
Progress that will open the doors of colonization of our galaxy.

Humans need control in general, but it must be more democratic, even if the leader is despotic (meaning- one emperor for all terrans). When there will be one person in charge and he will govern all the world , there will be no use of wars and such. There will be noone to fight with, except some terrorists groups.
Someday we will come a one world government
It's our future which is ireversable if we don't destroy ourselves sooner.
Then the new age will come. With no religion. Humans will be their own gods able to control their surroundings and be gods for other less advanced life forms in our galaxy.
 
avatar
Then the new age will come. With no religion. Humans will be their own gods able to control their surroundings and be gods for other less advanced life forms in our galaxy.

OK then, avatar- if humans are taking the place of gods for not only ourselves but for other beings, is it then not merely the extension of our current religious state into a more secular, rational format?

To truly destroy the regressive religious institution, we can't just change it into something so far to the other side of the spectrum that it seem totally different- because it isn't. Self-worship and other forms of woship are still religious when not including the spiritual.

avatar
I do not reject it. Every state, future world government, needs some control over its citizens. In the past and present it has been mostly religious control. What I want is another way of control, not religious, because it shrinkens ones view to the world and leads into misguiding.
We must evolve into more advanced methods of control.

What other type of control?

We-humans- need smth uniting, for all of us. For a long time it has been religion.-> Americans-Christians, Israeli-Jews, India-Hindi, Iraq-Muslins.
I believe that a sufficient scientifical progress will unify us

I definately do agree that unification cannot come through the unification of small parts, as is obvious through examples of when those parts clash (Native Americans/USA, Israel/Palestine, Crusades, etc.) I would say it makes sense to unify all of us not on a stronger, more advanced way of control, but through the absence of a new way of control and a total collape of the old one. I think creating a 'New World Order' such as you describe would fool many into worshipping merely secular deities, even if they have forsaken the spiritual ones.
 
How do you destroy religion? Should we print this post out and start posting it at local churches and temples???

Progress that will open the doors of colonization of our galaxy.
The main goal of the human race should be space exploration and colonization. If we wait too long, overpopulation is going to cause some serious problems. People need to think bigger and more long term.

When there will be one person in charge and he will govern all the world , there will be no use of wars and such. There will be noone to fight with, except some terrorists groups.
Sounds kinda like the star wars empire...there is no need for one person to be in charge.

I am trying to find things to argue about but the fact is I agree with your post. Of course, everything about religion isnt bad and many good things have occured because of religion. We just do not need it anymore.
 
if humans are taking the place of gods for not only ourselves but for other beings, is it then not merely the extension of our current religious state into a more secular, rational format?
I meant differently. I have other facts on which I lai my fundament. I was thinking that the gods that are worshiped by most humans nowadays were just aliens who visited our planet some 15 000 b.c. Much evidence towards it, but for this we can have a discussion @ pseudoscience;)
Self-worship and other forms of woship are still religious when not including the spiritual.
not self worship, self honour. Religious people in general think that they are second to god/s , they are smaller. What we need is a self belief, belief in our own strenght.
How do you destroy religion?
by raising more intelligent children. by becoming more intelligent.
Should we print this post out and start posting it at local churches and temples???
It's a very good idea:) I shall make a stone tablet from it and be the new age Moses;):cool::D
Sounds kinda like the star wars empire...there is no need for one person to be in charge.
actually, the star wars empire is quite a good idea, but I propose that in our galaxy we have several empires, so people could choose in which to live....
At present our democratical governments are arguing too much with eachother and do not have courage to do big things. In empire that wouldn't be a problem. Of curse if we become a REAL democratic society, then it could be good. For now we are a tribal one.
 
Interesting ideas, but that fear is going to be very hard to drive away. The fear of death is what brings people to religion, people don't want to stop existing and as long as this fear drives people then some form of religion will exist.
 
Originally posted by fadingCaptain
How do you destroy religion? Should we print this post out and start posting it at local churches and temples?

Yes, yes, yes! That would be very interesting and funny.:D
 
In my oh so humble opinion, religions are childish, unnecessary, irrational, and stupid.

But religions used to be valuable tools for uniting and mobilizing humans under a single cause. Many societies once made usee of religion to keep themselves organized, such as the majority of Europe during the Medieval Ages, and the period when the Islamic countries ruled.

Religion was once necessary. Good substitution for getting peopel to get off their asses and start moving to work, when humans lacked the science to convince themselves to do what is better for them.

However, now that we pretty much know where we are supposed to be going (at least most of the time...we still don't know but we do have a much better idea than the Medieval ages!!) religion is becoming more and more of a hindrance. Now is the age for rational, scientific thought. You need an open mind to advance further, and our minds must achieve independence. Religion is keeping people tied down and subservient to an imaginary superior being. I think it is high time we removed those shackles.

Any thoughts? This is entirely my own opinion.
 
We and I have touched the theme of religions being outdated and unneeded at present time, Zero. Especially @ my starting post->
Where we see more "advanced" governmental control over its citizens there is a big religious influence. Primary driven by fear. See- Egyptians, Romans, Jews, Azteks, Hets. The state used religion to control the nation and the nation was in fear from the despotic rulers and their method of control aka religion. In ancient greek democracy people were more free, they had more rights and thus we see that they didn't fear from their gods. They were a part of their culture/society. Rome is an interesting example. In it's late existance period (and not so late) after year 100a.d. Romans more and more stopped believing their ancient gods, became more free thinking. Government saw that it is losing its control- then christianity came. An ultimate crowd control tool. Why else do you think it was made the state religion? Fear controls humans- as in subconscious and in consciouss state. If speaking of particularry christianity then I admit it is a well done control tool. So many leaders, despots have used it and use it; today also (see. Muslin countries, the USA (in god we trust, daily pledge, self declared itself a christianic nation).

................
I have a speculation/theory. Humans are addicted to fear. They go to watch horror movies, go to theme parks and ride dangerous and high adneralin(sp) attraction, do bunjee jumping, etc. But it all is only temporary, the effect lasts not long after the process. Religion threatens you during your life, till you are alive(see. won't be good, you'll boil in lakes of fire). It's a daily process. Humans are adicted to fear and they also take pleasure from it (fear and pain can be pleasarus. I know- during trainings when we hit eachother, train blocking a, after some time you fall in a trance like comdition). So christians saying that they love god- they lie. They love fear, fear which gives them pleasure. It's like being stoned. But there is smth terribly wrong in this (religious affetion). 1. people lose some control on their lives. 2. in general these kind of people are more easy to manipulate. 3. They lose their rational thinking over time. Thus fear- which is/was the major key element in our evolution may become an element of regression for many of us. Back to the ape.
oh, and please. if you say that
religions are childish, unnecessary, irrational, and stupid.
maybe you should explain.... Of course we who have expressed our opinion here understand that and have our own view in this, but many out-of-discuassion members might rate your humble oppinion as an attack not a part of discussion

if I needed to do it->
childish- for so many people fall for it and act like stupid children after

unnecessary- in nowaday world we need something that unifies all people not just soe groups

irrational- how else it could be...genesis, the book of Job

stupid- for smart people it is a very intelligent crowd control tool. if an intelligent human learns to use it for his own needs, he can achieve much-> control his little puppets, politics, money "donations", and expansion of empires in the past and nawadays (how else would you think of USA in the Meddle East)
 
The below text is the final version (I'll do some rereading though and correct if needed) of my article. Then I will translate it into latvian and glue it to the doors of the main catholic curch (early morning) of our country.:) It's the HQ of organised religion.

if anybody has smth against it, say it now or be silent forever:D
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Humans have evolved. From ape to homo eructus to homo sapiens, maybe later to homo electronicus; who knows... But there is also another kind of evolution and it happens in our minds. Now scientists have agreed that what developed first was our body - first we looked human, only then we became human.

Humans are a tribal society driven by fear from the unknown. It was like that and till wery recently it was only a religious fear from some mistical forces (god/s).

Nowadays humans have also started to fear from themselves or what they might become or acomplish (see. movie Terminator, Matrix, Aliens). Some are very afraid and go to extremes- (live in forests with no technology or whatever. They are fundamentalists of fear as much as christians are. Christians believe in their God, but really they believe in fear. They say they love their god, but why do they fear from him then (see. comandments, Sodom, Gomohr, the great flood). Nowaday religion is the cult of the advanced sciences. Who knows - maybe in 200 years they will worship some A.I. But the key factor remains - fear.

Fear for itself isn't "bad" , nothing is - all is relative. Fear is one of our basic instincts, it helps us to survive. But with religion people have created fear for themselves. Why? Maybe because they started to build cityes and life became less dangerous and they needed to compensate it somehow. Thus destructive gods appeared. Interesting that the fear from gods was equal or proportional to the governmental institution advancement in particular regions/cultures. Where people were very independent in ancient times - like in Latvia - there was no fear from gods. Life was good and if smth bad happened then it was because of humans.

Where we see more "advanced" governmental control over its citizens there is a big religious influence. Primary driven by fear(see. Egyptians, Romans, Jews, Azteks, Hets). The state used religion to control the nation and the nation was in fear from the despotic rulers and their method of control aka religion. In ancient greek democracy people were more free, they had more rights and thus we see that they didn't fear from their gods. They were a part of their culture/society. Rome is an interesting example. In it's late existance period (and not so late) after year 100a.d. Romans more and more stopped believing their ancient gods, became more free thinking. Government saw that it is losing its control- then christianity came. An ultimate crowd control tool. Why else do you think it was made the state religion? Fear controls humans- as in subconscious and in consciouss state. If speaking of particularry christianity then I admit it is a well done control tool. So many leaders, despots have used it and use it; today also (see. Muslin countries, the USA (in god we trust, daily pledge, self declared itself a christianic nation).

We-humans- need smth uniting, for all of us. For a long time it has been religion.-> Americans-Christians, Israeli-Jews, India-Hindi, Iraq-Muslins.
I believe that a sufficient scientifical progress will unify us.
Progress that will open the doors of colonization of our galaxy.

Humans need control in general, but it must be more democratic, even if the leader is despotic (meaning- one emperor for all terrans). When there will be one person in charge and he will govern all the world , there will be no use of wars and such. There will be noone to fight with, except some terrorists groups.
Someday we will come a one world government
It's our future which is ireversable if we don't destroy ourselves sooner.
Then the new age will come. With no religion. Humans will be their own gods able to control their surroundings and be like gods themselves for other less advanced life forms in our galaxy.

Fear is nothing bad - take away fear and take away some part of humans in us. But fear from smth different, not the crowd control tools (religions).
Why do so many people "follow" different realigions , make themselves and their lives dependent from them? Why do they, when say they love freedom, they sell it to some mistical being? Governments also play a role in this. It is easyer to control such people, because they have common fears. Generally speaking - many people with one shot.But still- why people fall mostly for religions that include fear from god, or a destructive god, or hell or some powers that are dangerous to human species?

I have a speculation/theory. Humans are addicted to fear. They go to watch horror movies, go to theme parks and ride dangerous and high adneralin(sp) attraction, do bunjee jumping, etc. But it all is only temporary, the effect lasts not long after the process. Religion threatens you during your life, till you are alive(see. won't be good, you'll boil in lakes of fire). It's a daily process. Humans are adicted to fear and they also take pleasure from it (fear and pain can be pleasarus. I know- during trainings when we hit eachother, train blocking a, after some time you fall in a trance like comdition). So christians saying that they love god- they lie. They love fear, fear which gives them pleasure. It's like being stoned. But there is smth terribly wrong in this (religious affetion). 1. people lose some control on their lives. 2. in general these kind of people are more easy to manipulate. 3. They lose their rational thinking over time. Thus fear- which is/was the major key element in our evolution may become an element of regression for many of us. Back to the ape.

My solution? Humans must get rid of self established contol tools. They have created an autonomous control system (centralised and organised religion) that they themselves have lost contol of. Just like in some sci-fi stories where an A.I. takes over the world. Only in our case the "A.I." isn't smart, it can't make the world a better place. Humans must destroy tht "A.I." and take back control on their lives. Fear won't be destroyed, there are so much other things to fear of (see. metiorite strikes, overpopulation, global temperature increase, pollution, etc). These kind of fears/problems can not take over our world like the religions (A.I.'s) do. They can be ended with, a solution can be found and by destroying that fear, we'll advance ourselves.

Religion is bad because it can not be ended with, it can not be disproved completely, there is no solution for a religion, because for everyone the religion is different. The only solution is the destruction of organised religion. It's like cancer which wants to live forever, but really is destroying our organism/human race. It must be operated and destroyed.. Medicine/other religions, religios reforms / can only take the pain away temporary.
Religion is like drugs (see. addiction to realigion/fear) which if too much used destroys our brain cells.

Our solution for the problem is destruction of that problem, because no other means are possible (by raising more intelligent children. by becoming more intelligent.). And the only primary function of our race is still survival. But we have infected the survival princip (which is equal to fear, survival isntinct is powered by fear) with religion, we have infected our own evolution process, we are destroying ourselves (those who don't adapt , die out - natures's laws). We are all aware of physical threats (see. overpopulation , pollution, etc), but few are aware of the threats to our intelect/mind. We have created the religion (threat to our existance) , we must destroy it, we must survive, we must evolve; or die.....
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Avatar wrote:
Humans have evolved. From ape to homo eructus to homo sapiens, maybe later to homo electronicus; who knows... But there is also another kind of evolution and it happens in our minds. Now scientists have agreed that what developed first was our body - first we looked human, only then we became human.
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I'll grant you evolution if you mean microevolution. There is still no evidence of MACROevolution.

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Avatar wrote:
Humans are a tribal society driven by fear from the unknown. It was like that and till wery recently it was only a religious fear from some mistical forces (god/s).
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Fear is a natural thing for humans to fear whether from known or unknown things. By the way, God is only unknown to those who DO NOT seek him.

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Avatar wrote:
Nowadays humans have also started to fear from themselves or what they might become or acomplish (see. movie Terminator, Matrix, Aliens). Some are very afraid and go to extremes- (live in forests with no technology or whatever.
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A salient point Avatar, and I might add quite astute too.

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Avatar wrote:
They are fundamentalists of fear as much as christians are.
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I think you are mistaking "fear" with "reverence" and "respect".

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Avatar wrote:
Christians believe in their God, but really they believe in fear. They say they love their god, but why do they fear from him then (see. comandments, Sodom, Gomohr, the great flood).
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Again, you have mistaken "fear" (as in being scared) with "respect", "honor", "revere", etc.

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Avatar wrote:
Nowaday religion is the cult of the advanced sciences. Who knows - maybe in 200 years they will worship some A.I. But the key factor remains - fear.
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Are you saying that nowadays science is religion? I don't understand. Please clarify.

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Avatar wrote:
Fear for itself isn't "bad" , nothing is - all is relative. Fear is one of our basic instincts, it helps us to survive.
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Yes, fear as in "being frightened", helps us survive. You are right.

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Avatar wrote:
But with religion people have created fear for themselves. Why? Maybe because they started to build cityes and life became less dangerous and they needed to compensate it somehow.
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Has life become LESS dangerous? Did I miss the papers or something?

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Avatar wrote:
Thus destructive gods appeared.
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Are you talking about God, or mythological gods like Zeus etc.? If you mean like Greek mythology, I basically agree with you. If you mean God... the real God... I disagree. God is not destructive for destruction sake. It is always contingent on human behavior vis avis his will or commandments. Its about righteous punishment of guilt, not wild-eyed destruction.

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Avatar wrote:
Interesting that the fear from gods was equal or proportional to the governmental institution advancement in particular regions/cultures. Where people were very independent in ancient times - like in Latvia - there was no fear from gods. Life was good and if smth bad happened then it was because of humans.
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What history book did you get all this from?

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Avatar wrote:
Where we see more "advanced" governmental control over its citizens there is a big religious influence. Primary driven by fear. See- Egyptians, Romans, Jews, Azteks, Hets. The state used religion to control the nation and the nation was in fear from the despotic rulers and their method of control aka religion. In ancient greek democracy people were more free, they had more rights and thus we see that they didn't fear from their gods. They were a part of their culture/society. Rome is an interesting example. In it's late existance period (and not so late) after year 100a.d. Romans more and more stopped believing their ancient gods, became more free thinking. Government saw that it is losing its control- then christianity came. An ultimate crowd control tool. Why else do you think it was made the state religion? Fear controls humans- as in subconscious and in consciouss state. If speaking of particularry christianity then I admit it is a well done control tool. So many leaders, despots have used it and use it; today also (see. Muslin countries, the USA (in god we trust, daily pledge, self declared itself a christianic nation).
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I think this a little bit skewed logically. You are correct about folkloric mythological deities being used to control the populace. However, that Christianity was ever used as crowd control was as a result of the influence of pagan religion upon earlier practitioners of Chritianity. The Bible taken as a whole (especially the New Testement) puts great stock in personal responsibility. This "control" is the result of an internal desire to do what is right, not a dictarial overlord forcing one to "do right". Pagan religions are replete with gods zapping people for no other reason than meanness and vindictiveness. However, the Bible depicts a God who weighs each punishment with a measure of mercy. For this we respect, or "fear", God.

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Avatar wrote:
Fear is nothing bad - take away fear and take away some part of humans in us. But fear from smth different, not the crowd control tools (religions).
Why do so many people "follow" different realigions , make themselves and their lives dependent from them? Why do they, when say they love freedom, they sell it to some mistical being? Governments also play a role in this. It is easyer to control such people, because they have common fears. Generally speaking - many people with one shot.But still- why people fall mostly for religions that include fear from god, or a destructive god, or hell or some powers that are dangerous to human species?
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Freedom "from", not freedom "to". It is freedom from oppression, tyranny, injustice, disorder and strife. NOT freedom to do whatever we so desire.

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Avatar wrote:
I have a speculation/theory. Humans are addicted to fear. They go to watch horror movies, go to theme parks and ride dangerous and high adneralin(sp) attraction, do bunjee jumping, etc. But it all is only temporary, the effect lasts not long after the process.
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Again, you are laboring under the misunderstanding of the Biblical concept of fear.

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Avatar wrote:
Religion threatens you during your life, till you are alive(see. won't be good, you'll boil in lakes of fire).
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It has nothing to do with "goodness" and everything to do with accepting or rejecting Jesus' offer of salvation. We do not get to Heaven by our "works" but by grace through our acceptance of Jesus Christ. Don't mean to proselytize, but this has strayed into theology a bit.

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Avatar wrote:
It's a daily process. Humans are adicted to fear and they also take pleasure from it (fear and pain can be pleasarus. I know- during trainings when we hit eachother, train blocking a, after some time you fall in a trance like comdition).
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This is caused by the release of endorphins from the brain into the body. Almost causes a kind of "high". It is as a result of pain not fear. Fear (as in terror) produces the chemical adrenaline which can put you into an almost dreamlike state. It sets of your fight or flight instinct. I hardly ever feel this weay at Church. Well, maybe when the pastor preaches too far past lunchtime. ;)

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Avatar wrote:
So christians saying that they love god- they lie.
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You're sure about this?

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Avatar wrote:
They love fear, fear which gives them pleasure. It's like being stoned. But there is smth terribly wrong in this (religious affetion). 1. people lose some control on their lives. 2. in general these kind of people are more easy to manipulate. 3. They lose their rational thinking over time. Thus fear- which is/was the major key element in our evolution may become an element of regression for many of us. Back to the ape.
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Have you ever heard of Emily Litella? A character on Saturday Night Live? Portrayed by the late Gilda Radner? Soon I think Avatar will have to say.. "Oh... when Christians say 'fear' they mean 'respect'? Not 'terror'? Oh... never mind." :p

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Avatar wrote:
My solution? Humans must get rid of self established contol tools.
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You mean like laws? Police? The military? Do we get rid of all that and revert to anarchy? Then we will fear each other for there will be no limit on who can do what to who... fear of the state will be replaced by fear of crime.

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Avatar wrote:
They have created an autonomous control system (centralised and organised religion) that they themselves have lost contol of. Just like in some sci-fi stories where an A.I. takes over the world. Only in our case the "A.I." isn't smart, it can't make the world a better place. Humans must destroy tht "A.I." and take back control on their lives. Fear won't be destroyed, there are so much other things to fear of (see. metiorite strikes, overpopulation, global temperature increase, pollution, etc). These kind of fears/problems can not take over our world like the religions (A.I.'s) do. They can be ended with, a solution can be found and by destroying that fear, we'll advance ourselves.

Religion is bad because it can not be ended with, it can not be disproved completely, there is no solution for a religion, because for everyone the religion is different. The only solution is the destruction of organised religion. It's like cancer which wants to live forever, but really is destroying our organism/human race. It must be operated and destroyed.. Medicine/other religions, religios reforms / can only take the pain away temporary.
Religion is like drugs (see. addiction to realigion/fear) which if too much used destroys our brain cells. Our solution for the problem is destruction of that problem, because no other means are possible. And the only primary function of our race is still survival. But we have infected the survival princip (which is equal to fear, survival isntinct is powered by fear) with religion, we have infected our own evolution process, we are destroying ourselves (those who don't adapt , die out - natures's laws). We are all aware of physical threats (see. overpopulation , pollution, etc), but few are aware of the threats to our intelect/mind. We have created the religion (threat to our existance) , we must destroy it, we must survive, we must evolve; or die...
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What is this... a paragraph out of Mein Kampf? So much for tolerance. Now suddenly you sound exactly like the dictatorial religious tyrants from the past that you claim to hate. What are you going to do, put Christians in cattle cars and ship them off to concentration camps. Very good Avatar. So I should fear YOU instead of God?

By the way, people like you will get your wish and persecution of Christians will occur. It is all predicted in the Bible.

"Indeed all who delight in piety and are determined to live a devoted and godly life in Christ Jesus will meet with persecution [will be made to suffer because of their religious stand]." -- 2 Timothy 3:12 (written by the Apostle Paul)

"Remember that I told you, A servant is not greater than his master [is not superior to him]. If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you..." John 15:20 (spoken by Jesus)

Incidently I recall a little German guy who hated certain religious people. Did he make the world a better place?

-Mike
 
I'll grant you evolution if you mean microevolution. There is still no evidence of MACROevolution
there is enough if you note dinosours
By the way, God is only unknown to those who DO NOT seek him.
I've studied him. christian school...4 years
I think you are mistaking "fear" with "reverence" and "respect".
I think not. I have studied christianity from inside for 4 years and also 3 years outside of it.
Are you saying that nowadays science is religion? I don't understand. Please clarify.
I'm saying that many fear from science as much as from religion
Has life become LESS dangerous? Did I miss the papers or something?
of course...haven't you studied ancient history. there was no quessing if you'd wake up tomorrow in chains, with no head, a slave, or a free person
Are you talking about God, or mythological gods like Zeus etc.? If you mean like Greek mythology, I basically agree with you. If you mean God... the real God... I disagree. God is not destructive for destruction sake. It is always contingent on human behavior vis avis his will or commandments. Its about righteous punishment of guilt, not wild-eyed destruction.
Jahwe is also a mythological god. Not better as Zeus. "REAL GOD::D lmao...there are many REAL gods for MANY people.
God is not destructive for destruction sake.
Yahwe is immoral, jelous and violent.
Its about righteous punishment of guilt, not wild-eyed destruction
really?:rolleyes: Have you read and analysed the book of Job?
What history book did you get all this from?
My own historical studies and analysis.
I think this a little bit skewed logically. You are correct about folkloric mythological deities being used to control the populace. However, that Christianity was ever used as crowd control was as a result of the influence of pagan religion upon earlier practitioners of Chritianity
are you sane? I know the history of my nation probably better than you know yours. Christians settled here in 1201..murdered oh so many my ancestors. used cheating and killed general population...took complete control of our land in 200 years. Killed any freethinkers or rebels. With all means tried to destroy our culture. We vere attacked...before 1200 noone had never heard of christianity over here.. this is just one example from all over the world
This "control" is the result of an internal desire to do what is right
and who decides it? humans...besides all good and bad is relative for each individual, nation, culture
Pagan religions are replete with gods zapping people for no other reason than meanness and vindictiveness.
read the thread in religion, second page- Latvian Paganism - don't say what you don't know.
However, the Bible depicts a God who weighs each punishment with a measure of mercy. For this we respect, or "fear", God.
The book of Job is an exelent example that you are wrong. Read it.
Again, you are laboring under the misunderstanding of the Biblical concept of fear
I disagree. I've been studying christianity, bible, other religions, mythology and ancient history for 4 years now (seriously). (I'm not talking about those 4 years in christian school even)
It has nothing to do with "goodness" and everything to do with accepting or rejecting Jesus' offer of salvation. We do not get to Heaven by our "works"
wrong...a God loving homosexual won't get into heaven....heard of Sodom and Ghomor? Homosexuality is a sin in the bible.
This is caused by the release of endorphins from the brain into the body. Almost causes a kind of "high". It is as a result of pain not fear. Fear (as in terror) produces the chemical adrenaline which can put you into an almost dreamlike state. It sets of your fight or flight instinct. I hardly ever feel this weay at Church
this is only on a shock or a quick change. If it lasts for years , you may not even notice it.
You're sure about this?
in general - yes..I know too many christians (catholics , luterans and baptists alike)
Have you ever heard of Emily Litella?
never heard of her
You mean like laws? Police? The military? Do we get rid of all that and revert to anarchy? Then we will fear each other for there will be no limit on who can do what to who... fear of the state will be replaced by fear of crime.
I was refering the organised religion
What is this... a paragraph out of Mein Kampf?
I have the book at home, but haven't read it. It's the paragraph from my mind.
Now suddenly you sound exactly like the dictatorial religious tyrants from the past that you claim to hate. What are you going to do, put Christians in cattle cars and ship them off to concentration camps.
no my solution is raising of more intelligent people. and for the sake of our evolution- disallow any preachings outside of churches to the young people...teens.
Very good Avatar. So I should fear YOU instead of God?
you are welcome
Incidently I recall a little German guy who hated certain religious people.
I do not hate anybody or anything. Christians use tht word so often:rolleyes: :confused: ... I repeat---hate is as archaic emotional state as being religious.
Did he make the world a better place?
NO, BUT I WILL!:) :cool:
 
"""""with religion we have infected our own evolutionary process"""""

So much for triumphalist reductionism :)

A question about the topic title: Does it posit that religion transcends the evolutionary process? It seems to imply there is a spiritual realm that infects evolution. Otherwise, isn't religion just a product of evolution? Or are you saying our conscience allows us to alter the evolutionary process? Isn't our conscience merely this evolutionary process at work? This seems to be a worldview issue: Atheism with reductionism or theism with a transcendental, spiritual reality. The way you've set it up seems to borrow from both worldviews and seems somewhat illogical. I could be wrong though. Any thoughts or clarification?

Vinnie
 
It seems to imply there is a spiritual realm that infects evolution.
what do you men by spiritual realm? I do not think our mind can be reffered to as a spiritual realm.
Otherwise, isn't religion just a product of evolution?
NO, it isn't. It's a product of people imagination.
Or are you saying our conscience allows us to alter the evolutionary process?
the evolutionary process of our mind -Yes. in my theory religion is slowing it. If there are two parents who are intelligent, most likely their children will be more than just average. If their parents both do not follow the organised religion, most likely their children won't. Religion is limiting ones thinking to traditional dogmas and unproven facts. If there are more and more non-followers of organised religion, then there will be more people not limiting themselves and others , because religious people have a bad habit of preaching and forcing their views to others.
Isn't our conscience merely this evolutionary process at work?
You could say so, but with religion you are infecting the same consciousness by limiting its possibilities.
Atheism with reductionism or theism with a transcendental, spiritual reality
Again- I must request what you mean by spiritual reality. honest
The way you've set it up seems to borrow from both worldviews and seems somewhat illogical.
the post you are reffering to is fully a product of my mind. Not a line from any book or smth.

please clarify- spiritual reality
 
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