Will Science Eventually Drown Religion?

I did not say they were but the BHA seems quite happy to put them on their official web site and has not stated that they fundamentally disagree with them. Indeed they have made quite a thing of this 'experience' of two of their members.

First of all, anyone can join, even you. Secondly, they placed that disclaimer there for a reason, which is self-explanatory. They are providing unbiased views, something your religion does not offer.

Having failed on all major points of fact in this discussion presumably only such 'nit-picking' as this is left.

Correction, having ignored the facts of this discussion, your use of disinformation is being clarified.
 
glaucon

“ Originally Posted by lightgigantic
then please provide one example of evidence that isn't compiled in a historical format, particularly in regard to an object. ”


Interesting... you imply that 'god' is an object...

In any case.. sure thing: evidence that lies undiscovered.

last I checked god was a noun - so to get back to the elusive distinction between no evidence and a A complete lack of historical evidence can you please provide one example of evidence that isn't compiled in a historical format, particularly in regard to an object?




“ Originally Posted by lightgigantic
so do you have an absence of belief in god or deny god's existence? ”

Absence of belief in a god.
To deny would be illogical.

So if I say that china is an imagination am I denying the existence of china?


“ Originally Posted by lightgigantic
The Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. presently contains over 70 million items (books, magazines, journals, etc.). Hundreds of thousands of these were written by scholars and specialists in the various academic fields.

What percentage of the historical body of work compiled in the volumes of this library would you say are within your own pool of knowledge and experience? ”


Given that I have no idea as to the contents, I couldn't really say. Regardless, the point you're driving at is irrelevant: simply because one lacks knowledge or experience of some particular thing, doesn't mean that one cannot make a judgement on that thing with respect to its existence. I can for example, quite validly and confidently deny the existence of the 4-sided triangle.

but in this example aren't you relying on the knowledge and experience that a triangle has three sides?

so to get back to the original statements ....

Me - is the historical body of evidence as easy to negotiate as the back of your hand? ”

you - Of course.


If you cannot fathom the extent of the washington library it seems to indicate that negotiating the body of historical evidence in the washington library is equally impossible, .... now how do you propose to negotiate the body of historical evidence which is even greater than what is held in the washington library (the washington library is after all not a complete selection)?
 
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No matter what there will always be certain people who are more intelligent than the rest, like if there is a difference in intelligence levels then there must be a limit. In my opinion science might be so far behind a person of highest intelligence that it would be drowned by....;)
 
Your initial comment seems to suggest that an evangelical christian site 'Christianity Today' is writing off the future off its own faith. This seemed an odd proposition to me so I searched on their site for "Christianity is dying worldwide" but this returned no exact matches at all. Perhaps you can quote the exact page link so that I (and others) can read what it actually says in full.

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M*W: Try these sites:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/july/14.22.html

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

To answer your question, Christianity Today

I did find an article commenting on a New York Post article about 'christianity dying in the USA' but it did not agree with that article so it cannot be the piece you refer to!

I am afraid your commentary on what is happening to christianity may or may not be true for the USA, but it is certainly not true in the UK and even less so in the rest of the world.

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M*W: According to the web sites I've listed above, christianity is declining in the US, UK, rest of Europe (including drastically in Roman Catholic Italy), and in Canada. It is thriving, however, in South America and Africa.

In the UK there are more and more people coming to Alpha Courses because they want to find out facts about christianity and its beliefs and debate them(something that our education system for the most part no longer does)
.

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M*W: I'd recheck the statistics on this, if I were you.

As already stated by me, christianity is dramatically increasing in other places in the world such as China, and sub saharan Africa.

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M*W: I don't know about China. That needs further study. As I've stated, christianity is thriving in South America and Africa, most likely because of the high birth rates than missionary effort.

'There are now more practicing Christians in Africa than on any other continent, and by the second decade of the new millennium, Africa will overtake Europe as the continent with the greatest number of people who identify themselves as Christians, whether or not they practice their faith. '

(Source http://www.bethel.edu/~letnie/AfricanChristianity/Sub-SaharaHomepage.html)

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M*W: This may be true.

I note that you still cannot distinguish between the Roman Catholic church and christianity generally nor between RC dogma and core christian doctrines agreed by all christians and you continue to infer that christian beliefs were not formulated until around '1600 years ago'. If this were the case what beliefs precisely do you think that christians were prepared to give up their life for in the first century and how are they different to christianity's core beliefs today?

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M*W: No, you're wrong about this. I am well-versed in Roman Catholic doctrine as well as christianity in general. Been there, done both of 'em. I stand by my statement that Roman Catholicism started about 1600 years ago. It was late in the third century before the early church fathers got their shit together and decided upon the virgin birth, the trinity, and the creation of the dying-rising demigod savior.

Conveniently, the printing press was invented some 1200 years later which brought us the best seller in christian history, the Malleus Maleficarum.

Your quoted site contains some strange statements. Some examples:

'From the standpoint of a scientist, the claims are flawed because, first, there are no sacred books, and, second, although many members do believe in this special relationship, beliefs alone do not make something true.'


The last part is accurate of course belief in God does not make God exist anymore than belief in no God makes Him not exist(!) but how does science prove whether a book is sacred or not? What experiments can you do?

'4. Conquering death of people
Some religious leaders tell their members that people can live forever in Heaven.....

Let us examine the subject of longevity. Studies by actuaries indicate that the odds are more than one billion to one against a person surviving to the age of 140 years. No human has been known to live to the age of two hundred years.'


This is a marvellous non-sequitur! Religious leaders tell people they will live forever in Heaven but no human has been known to live to two hundred years. The last phrase implied but omitted is of course 'on earth'. If that had been put in, it would be obvious that the last part has nothing to do with the first part.

You have to wonder whether the author of this article does not understand very simple logic or is wilfully attempting to mislead because of his own personal agenda.

Sadly his grasp of statistics is at least as bad if not worse than his knowledge of logic.

'People at horse races sometimes wager on the combined outcome of several races. This type of bet is called a parlay. The odds against winning a parlay usually are much worse than picking the winner of a single race. For instance, if the odds against the selected horse in each of three races are 3 to 1, 20 to 1, and 8 to 1, the odds against all three horses winning is 480 to 1'

Assuming these are genuine (not bookmakers') odds the answer is actually 755 to 1 as 3 to 1 against means 1 in 4, 20 to 1 ,1 in 21 etc. so the chance is 1 in 4 X 21 X 9 equals 1 in 756 or 755 to 1 against.

'In the education of youth, the advantage often goes to the religious institution. The religious confidence games and bigotry are taught weekly or daily in their schools. The religious beliefs are drummed into the students by frequent and enthusiastic repetition.'

Marvellous generalisation. Certainly not true in the UK where for many years even basic christian beliefs have been given very limited time in the corriculum whilst the atheistic view of evolution of the universe and life is constantly repeated as fact in many different forums and subjects.


'By comparison, almost no one makes a living by opposing the idea of sacred books. Few people are actively involved in challenging the validity of the religious confidence games and in countering the spread of bigoted religious beliefs. The chances would seem slim to accomplish any significant reduction in the public's belief in Sacred Books and the accompanying religious bigotry.'

Not Richard Dawkins, Dan Brown and many many more less famous people, incluing a whole range of authors, playwrights, TV producers etc.?!

I assume the 'MD' after his name implies he is a doctor of medicine. Perhaps he should stick to that rather than logic, philosophy, theology, general science and mathematics, at none of which he appears to excel!

If he is really one of the best atheist 'thinkers' you can quote, I suggest that it is atheism that is in real trouble!

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M*W: I don't believe this last quote applies to my post, so I will leave it alone.
 
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no. they are higher than geniuses: prophets. moses and jesus (don't know about the others) were even higher: they were god-men.


A quote from Moses---a "God-Man".

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).

I know,I know..out of context,right?

Yes, I would say Moses demonstrated his noble God like qualities just fine!:eek:
 
no. they are higher than geniuses: prophets. moses and jesus (don't know about the others) were even higher: they were god-men.

You're such a crazy bastard, inventing definitions for words that have common usages without explaining yourself. Crazy crazy.

nova900 said:
A quote from Moses---a "God-Man".

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).

I know,I know..out of context,right?

Yes. Out of context. You know how I can tell? You quoted a "therefore" and left out its "because." Really obvious.

What are you, a couple of fat dudes in a bar fight?
 
A quote from Moses---a "God-Man".

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).

It's a quote from the Bible. I can't be sure if Moses really said that, but if he did, he had good reasons.

baumgarten said:
You're such a crazy bastard, inventing definitions for words that have common usages without explaining yourself. Crazy crazy.

God created Life in 7 days:

1. Matter
2. Plants
3. Animals
4. Humans (the beginning of spiritual evolution)
>Geniuses
>Prophets
>God-humans

(4x3=12)
 
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It's a quote from the Bible. I can't be sure if Moses really said that, but if he did, he had good reasons.
Damn right he did.

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).

Little boys are a fucking pain in the ass. We all know it. We'd kill them too if we had the chance.

And as for women who sleep with men, let me tell you. Whores, every last one of them. Kill em' all. After we've "slept" with them, of course.
 
God created Life in 7 days:

1. Matter
2. Plants
3. Animals
4. Humans
>Geniuses
>Prophets
>God-humans

Just let me add:

>> Morons
>> Minotaurs
>> Alien-human hybrids
>>> Unicorns
>>> Narwhals
 
Originally Posted by nova900
A quote from Moses---a "God-Man".

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).

It's a quote from the Bible. I can't be sure if Moses really said that, but if he did, he had good reasons.

As someone who does believe in a supreme being,your response reinforces all the problems I have with the depiction of God and his "god-men" as shown in both the Old and New testament of bloodshed and slaughter.
 
As someone who does believe in a supreme being,your response reinforces all the problems I have with the depiction of God and his "god-men" as shown in both the Old and New testament of bloodshed and slaughter.

i don't undestand..
he (moses) really had good reasons (if he did it).
 
Science and religion are completely incompatible. It is a comparison of reality and delusion. In spite of whatever delusions people have, an objective reality exists. Post-modernist nutters will undoubtedly have some comments about "what is real?", "how do you prove anything exists?", etc., but all gives rise to various nihilist and solipsist silliness.

In the end, religion is about rigidity and refusing to progress with new information. Religious texts of humanity are full of such examples where modern people maintain notions of Bronze and Iron Age people that, today, are complete and utter nonsense. They maintain these notions because they refuse to progress or adapt. They somehow believe that Bronze Age people had some insight into the world that we lack when it comes to observing and discovering or that divine beings did indeed communicate with various cult leaders that claim this to have occurred in spite of not a single shred of evidence that such communications are possible.

Science, on the other hand is all about revision and adaptation. Every scientific "truth" is a provisional statement, made with the best available data and ready to be challenged and revised with new information. There are no claims that science relies on the supernatural or the magical in the manner that religion does and, ironically, science is independent of religious delusions. Reality is independent of religious delusion.

And it is this fact that religious nutters and their cult leaders are desperate to deride, criticize, confuse, muddle, and out-right lie about to conceal. For, if the deluded masses should actually apply real thought to their cults -should they actually take an etic perspective of religion in general- they might actually discover the man behind the curtain and start asking questions about him.
 
Given the state of imbecility in a rapidly advancing technological world, I would say that science and religion both stand to be drowned

Image removed. Reason: copyright violation.
-from the Zippy the Pinhead website: Contents copyright © 2002-2003-2004-2005-2006 Bill Griffith
 
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